Cooking with aluminum

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be fine,
but not a long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato sauce,
or in vinegar.

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------------------------------------------------------------
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Louis Cohen Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8'
42.8"

"Reg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in
aluminum, but I've never seen any solid information on
exactly what level of acidity makes for problems.

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity)
acceptable for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points
for pointing out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service)
(dot) com

Reg said:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in
aluminum, but I've never seen any solid information on
exactly what level of acidity makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

Pastorio

Quoted message said:

Question: What's the minimum PH (i.e. maximum acidity)
acceptable for cooking in aluminum vessels. Bonus points
for pointing out an authoritative reference.

Thanks, and Happy 4th o' July.

Louis Cohen said:

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be
fine, but not a long-simmered stew or braise with a tomato
sauce, or in vinegar.

Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point that
time is probably also part of the equation.

I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific PH
levels....

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot)
com

Bob (this one) said:

Reg said:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in
aluminum, but I've never seen any solid information on
exactly what level of acidity makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and
produce off flavors...

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot)
com

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for a
very long time (except in second-hand charity shops). I
cook rhubarb very slowly (poaching really) and was always
told never to use aluminium, so before the days of
stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years ago?) I used
an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I guess.
I have a daughter who uses a large aluminium cooking pot but
I think only for soup these days.

Reg said:

Bob (this one) said:

Reg said:

I understand that acidic foods should not be cooked in
aluminum, but I've never seen any solid information on
exactly what level of acidity makes for problems.

What "problems" have you been told about?

That high acidity foods will react with the aluminum and
produce off flavors...

Gotta be pretty acid for quite a while. Color will change
before flavor if it's pale like an egg sauce with lemon or
vinegar. Otherwise, the acid foods will inside of the pot
very nicely. <lol>

We used to make our tomato sauce for my restaurants in 40-
quart pots every day. No issues and not one problem from
staff or public. If you were reducing vinegar, maybe a glass
or enamel pot. Stainless would scar (ask me how I know...).
For anything but the more extremely acid foods, aluminum is
fine. Or extremely alkaline (but I can't think of one).

Pastorio

Reg said:

Louis Cohen said:

I think a quick sauté of just about anything would be
fine, but not a long-simmered stew or braise with a
tomato sauce, or in vinegar.

Thanks Louis. You also bring up the important point that
time is probably also part of the equation.

I'm hoping I can find some info referring to specific PH
levels....

google is your friend :>

users.rcn.comAlOpen ↗
uminum.html
usc.eduJ0520.pdfOpen ↗

Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Kim said:

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans for
a very long time (except in second-hand charity shops).

Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance
point for safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and
away the best to buy. Since that foolishness about
Alzheimer's was so thoroughly discredited, even that silly
specter is gone.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat
some every time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No
deleterious effects have been discovered from ingestion of
aluminum in the quantities we routinely eat or even
multiples of those amounts.

Quoted message said:

I cook rhubarb very slowly (poaching really) and was
always told never to use aluminium, so before the days of
stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years ago?) I
used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I
guess. I have a daughter who uses a large aluminium
cooking pot but I think only for soup these days.

Apples and oranges.

First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from the
fringy wackos who think science is about bubbly test tubes
in movies.

Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the
color of the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in
aluminum because it changes the color. Tastes the same, just
isn't as pretty.

There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some
chemical properties that aluminum has in certain specific
applications. There's no good reason not to do the rhubarb
in aluminum.

Pastorio

Curly Sue said:

google is your friend :>

Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.

Quoted message said:

users.rcn.comusers.rcn.comOpen ↗
Aluminum.html
usc.eduJ0520.pdfOpen ↗

You're not even close, but thanks.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot)
com

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods
(like tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-flavors.
Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan or Dutch oven or steel
wok) seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's diet)
than aluminum.

--
------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
----
Louis Cohen Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8'
42.8"

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kim said:

I haven't seen aluminium cooking saucepans or frypans
for a very long time (except in second-hand charity
shops).

Then you haven't been in restaurant kitchens. As a balance
point for safety, utility and cost, aluminum is far and
away the best to buy. Since that foolishness about
Alzheimer's was so thoroughly discredited, even that silly
specter is gone.

Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on earth and we eat
some every time we eat. It's in virtually every food. No
deleterious effects have been discovered from ingestion of
aluminum in the quantities we routinely eat or even
multiples of those amounts.

Quoted message said:

I cook rhubarb very slowly (poaching really) and was
always told never to use aluminium, so before the days
of stainless steel (when was that? about 45 years ago?)
I used an enamel saucepan.

So this sort of warning has been around a long time I
guess. I have a daughter who uses a large aluminium
cooking pot but I think only for soup these days.

Apples and oranges.

First, there's no health issue with aluminum except from
the fringy wackos who think science is about bubbly test
tubes in movies.

Second, cooking with acid foods in aluminum can change the
color of the food. Don't want to do a Hollandaise sauce in
aluminum because it changes the color. Tastes the same,
just isn't as pretty.

There's no "warning" about it. It a recognition of some
chemical properties that aluminum has in certain specific
applications. There's no good reason not to do the rhubarb
in aluminum.

Pastorio

Reg said:

Curly Sue said:

google is your friend :>

Ah, a search engine. What a great idea.

Quoted message said:

users.rcn.comAOpen ↗
/Aluminum.html
usc.eduJ0520.pdfOpen ↗

You're not even close, but thanks.

Try Ask a Scientist: newton.dep.anl.govwebpagesOpen ↗
/askasci/chem00/chem00364.htm

I suspect that the authoritative answer you'll get is that
there is no answer to your question, it depends on the
particular food, the studies haven't been done, etc.

You're welcome.

Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Louis Cohen said:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods
(like tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-
flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

"Introduce off flavors." Whatever that could mean. Scotty
beams them into pots while you sleep.

Quoted message said:

Somehow, iron (from a cast iron pan or Dutch oven or steel
wok) seems more appetizing (and is necessary to one's
diet) than aluminum.

And it's so good for the pan, too. If you eat a normal sort
of diet, you get all the iron you need. More isn't
necessarily good and can be bad.

There is no demonstrated need in human nutrition for
aluminum. That also applies to most elements.

Pastorio

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:24:28 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods
(like tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-
flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

Howdy,

I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left
the residue to be cleaned the following morning...

The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally. There
were at least a dozen extremely small holes in the pan about
twelve hours after I had used it.

'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth said:

Bob (this one) said:

Quoted message said:

I think I've heard that cooking (or storing) acid foods
(like tomato sauces) in aluminum can introduce off-
flavors.

You *think* you've *heard*...?

Have you tested the idea at all?

Didn't think so.

Howdy,

I cooked tomato sauce in an aluminum camping pot and left
the residue to be cleaned the following morning...

The sauce ate through the pan. I mean that literally.
There were at least a dozen extremely small holes in the
pan about twelve hours after I had used it.

'Can't say that it affected the taste though...

Yep. I've seen that same sort of etching in my home pots
(which are considerably thicker) from the same sort of, um,
kitchen habits. Er, wait. I've *read* about that happening.
Yes. Read about it.

I suspect the pot wasn't exactly pristine when you first set
out to cook the sauce. But, neither here nor there, acids
will etch and finally dissolve aluminum. And iron. And
copper. And...

The OP was about the taste and some vaguenesses...

Pastorio