Cookie sheet with non-stick inside & out

Dan_Musicant said:

Some years ago I developed a recipe for cookies that knocked my socks
off and part of the process of making these cookies to perfection was
developing the perfect cooking scenario. I shopped quite a number of
stores until I went into one that had what was for me a perfect cookie
sheet. It was a Mirro Ebonware 17" x 14" with PermaCote non-stick inside
& out (top and bottom). I actually bake these cookies on the bottom, not
the top of the sheet, and slide the sheet on top of a large, thick
bottom sheet of steel (1/16th inch thick), which always remains in the
oven on a rack a bit more than 1/2 way up the oven. This leaves an
insulating layer of air of about 1/2 inch between the steel bottom sheet
and the cookie sheet, because the raised edges of the non-stick sheet
raise it up. This has the effect of lessening any tendency of the
bottoms of the cookies to burn and results in superior cookies.

The store had a good deal on these ($2.99 each, a very good deal even
then), and I bought 3. I generally use them for all my baking, not just
these cookies.

I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't turned
up anything. Thanks.

Dan

I've seen several insulated cookie sheets in stores. Calphalon, Kaiser,
Ecko, and others. Would one of them do instead?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Dan_Musicant said:

Some years ago I developed a recipe for cookies that knocked my socks
off and part of the process of making these cookies to perfection was
developing the perfect cooking scenario. I shopped quite a number of
stores until I went into one that had what was for me a perfect cookie
sheet. It was a Mirro Ebonware 17" x 14" with PermaCote non-stick inside
& out (top and bottom). I actually bake these cookies on the bottom, not
the top of the sheet, and slide the sheet on top of a large, thick
bottom sheet of steel (1/16th inch thick), which always remains in the
oven on a rack a bit more than 1/2 way up the oven. This leaves an
insulating layer of air of about 1/2 inch between the steel bottom sheet
and the cookie sheet, because the raised edges of the non-stick sheet
raise it up. This has the effect of lessening any tendency of the
bottoms of the cookies to burn and results in superior cookies.

The store had a good deal on these ($2.99 each, a very good deal even
then), and I bought 3. I generally use them for all my baking, not just
these cookies.

I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't turned
up anything. Thanks.

Dan

I think the material is silicone. Searching for silicone baking sheets
or silicone baking mats comes up with a few things. I have one here and
it has proven useful especially for cookies. For those out of the know,
cookies slide right off of them. The one I have has the same issue of
yours with the sidedness--or so it seems. Mine has a bumpy side and a
smooth side. The cookies are instructed to go on the smooth side.

It sounds like you had a good price on them. Let me know if you find
them online for that much at a reputeable seller.

Dan_Musicant said:

I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't

turned

Quoted message said:

up anything. Thanks.

Dan

Just get an "Air-Bake" brand sheet instead. I use parchment for
non-stick everything.

N.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:09:47 -0400, Jerry Avins <[email hidden]> wrote:

😄an_Musicant wrote:
:> Some years ago I developed a recipe for cookies that knocked my socks
:> off and part of the process of making these cookies to perfection was
:> developing the perfect cooking scenario. I shopped quite a number of
:> stores until I went into one that had what was for me a perfect cookie
:> sheet. It was a Mirro Ebonware 17" x 14" with PermaCote non-stick inside
:> & out (top and bottom). I actually bake these cookies on the bottom, not
:> the top of the sheet, and slide the sheet on top of a large, thick
:> bottom sheet of steel (1/16th inch thick), which always remains in the
:> oven on a rack a bit more than 1/2 way up the oven. This leaves an
:> insulating layer of air of about 1/2 inch between the steel bottom sheet
:> and the cookie sheet, because the raised edges of the non-stick sheet
:> raise it up. This has the effect of lessening any tendency of the
:> bottoms of the cookies to burn and results in superior cookies.
:>
:> The store had a good deal on these ($2.99 each, a very good deal even
:> then), and I bought 3. I generally use them for all my baking, not just
:> these cookies.
:>
:> I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
:> similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
:> anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't turned
:> up anything. Thanks.
:>
:> Dan
:
:I've seen several insulated cookie sheets in stores. Calphalon, Kaiser,
:Ecko, and others. Would one of them do instead?
:
:Jerry

What do you mean by "insulated" cookie sheet? could you elaborate. My
sheets all have a turned up edge. I thought of something: maybe I could
reverse the angle so the top is on the bottom. The bottoms are in pretty
good shape on two of mine and the other has some grease baked on, but
maybe that could be used too. It wouldn't be real easy reversing the
angle, but the corners are cut out, so it's theoretically possible. I'm
just never seen sheets like the ones I have.

Dan

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 04:22:17 GMT, Adam Preble
<[email hidden]> wrote:

😄an_Musicant wrote:
:> Some years ago I developed a recipe for cookies that knocked my socks
:> off and part of the process of making these cookies to perfection was
:> developing the perfect cooking scenario. I shopped quite a number of
:> stores until I went into one that had what was for me a perfect cookie
:> sheet. It was a Mirro Ebonware 17" x 14" with PermaCote non-stick inside
:> & out (top and bottom). I actually bake these cookies on the bottom, not
:> the top of the sheet, and slide the sheet on top of a large, thick
:> bottom sheet of steel (1/16th inch thick), which always remains in the
:> oven on a rack a bit more than 1/2 way up the oven. This leaves an
:> insulating layer of air of about 1/2 inch between the steel bottom sheet
:> and the cookie sheet, because the raised edges of the non-stick sheet
:> raise it up. This has the effect of lessening any tendency of the
:> bottoms of the cookies to burn and results in superior cookies.
:>
:> The store had a good deal on these ($2.99 each, a very good deal even
:> then), and I bought 3. I generally use them for all my baking, not just
:> these cookies.
:>
:> I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
:> similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
:> anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't turned
:> up anything. Thanks.
:>
:> Dan
:
:I think the material is silicone. Searching for silicone baking sheets
:or silicone baking mats comes up with a few things. I have one here and
:it has proven useful especially for cookies. For those out of the know,
:cookies slide right off of them. The one I have has the same issue of
:yours with the sidedness--or so it seems. Mine has a bumpy side and a
:smooth side. The cookies are instructed to go on the smooth side.
:
:It sounds like you had a good price on them. Let me know if you find
:them online for that much at a reputeable seller.

Silicone? Hmm. I don't know what's on mine, it just says "non-stick"
surface, maybe what they used to call "teflon." Cookies definitely don't
"slide right off of them." I have to scrape them off (with a plastic
spatula), and even so they leave a thin layer of cookie, unless I scrape
real hard. A surface that would really have the cookies slide right off
would be awesome. However, I really like my system of having an
insulating layer of air between a bottom sheet and the cookie sheet to
prevent undue browning of the cookie bottoms.

On 27 Apr 2005 08:52:22 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

:
😄an_Musicant wrote:
:> I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
:> similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
:> anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't
:turned
:> up anything. Thanks.
:>
:> Dan
:
:Just get an "Air-Bake" brand sheet instead. I use parchment for
:non-stick everything.
:
:N.

Where do you get a cooking parchment? Never heard of that before.
Thanks.

Air-Bake, never heard of that either. Are they in the stores? I'd like
to see some. I live in Berkeley, CA.

Dan_Musicant wrote:

...

Quoted message said:

What do you mean by "insulated" cookie sheet? could you elaborate.

Someone mentioned "air-bake". That's one.
http://www.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=77403&PartnerID=FROOGLE&BannerID=PD677&bhcp=1
is first on http://www.google.com/search?q=insulated+cookie+sheet. There
is much more there.

Quoted message said:

My sheets all have a turned up edge. I thought of something: maybe I could
reverse the angle so the top is on the bottom. The bottoms are in pretty
good shape on two of mine and the other has some grease baked on, but
maybe that could be used too. It wouldn't be real easy reversing the
angle, but the corners are cut out, so it's theoretically possible. I'm
just never seen sheets like the ones I have.

It takes great skill or special tools to reverse the angle or even cut
off the edges without warping the sheet. Just put some nuts -- the kind
that go on bolts -- on the steel plate for spacers and use the sheets
right side up. 1/2-13 seems like a good size. Avoid cadmium plating
around food. They don't use that any more: anything you buy new won't
have it. Zinc plating might sublimate, but there won't be enough vapor
to be harmful, and the metal isn't poisonous. To go first class, use
stainless. You can get them at Home Depot, Loews, and other places.
Marbles would roll, but you could fashion clay spacers that won't

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Dan_Musicant said:

On 27 Apr 2005 08:52:22 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

:
😄an_Musicant wrote:
:> I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
:> similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
:> anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't
:turned
:> up anything. Thanks.
:>
:> Dan
:
:Just get an "Air-Bake" brand sheet instead. I use parchment for
:non-stick everything.
:
:N.

Where do you get a cooking parchment? Never heard of that before.
Thanks.

Air-Bake, never heard of that either. Are they in the stores? I'd like
to see some. I live in Berkeley, CA.

Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?q=baking+parchment.
Some markets have it with the wax paper and aluminum foil, others with
baking supplies. There are insulated cookie sheets, probably Air-Bake,
in the housewares aisle of my local supermarket. Look in Andronico's

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:34:00 -0400, Jerry Avins <[email hidden]> wrote:

😄an_Musicant wrote:
:
: ...
:> What do you mean by "insulated" cookie sheet? could you elaborate.
:
:Someone mentioned "air-bake". That's one.
:http://www.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=77403&PartnerID=FROOGLE&BannerID=PD677&bhcp=1
:is first on http://www.google.com/search?q=insulated+cookie+sheet. There
:is much more there.
:
:> My sheets all have a turned up edge. I thought of something: maybe I could
:> reverse the angle so the top is on the bottom. The bottoms are in pretty
:> good shape on two of mine and the other has some grease baked on, but
:> maybe that could be used too. It wouldn't be real easy reversing the
:> angle, but the corners are cut out, so it's theoretically possible. I'm
:> just never seen sheets like the ones I have.
:
:It takes great skill or special tools to reverse the angle or even cut
:off the edges without warping the sheet. Just put some nuts -- the kind
:that go on bolts -- on the steel plate for spacers and use the sheets
:right side up. 1/2-13 seems like a good size. Avoid cadmium plating
:around food. They don't use that any more: anything you buy new won't
:have it. Zinc plating might sublimate, but there won't be enough vapor
:to be harmful, and the metal isn't poisonous. To go first class, use
:stainless. You can get them at Home Depot, Loews, and other places.
:Marbles would roll, but you could fashion clay spacers that won't
:
:Jerry

Yes, I think you are right that it would be just too tough to reverse
the angle. I'd probably spoil the levelness of the sheet. Nuts or
similar is a really good idea for spacers. I have tons of odd hardware,
including stainless, and I'm sure I have some ideal things I can use. I
just made another batch of those cookies and this time I used the top of
one sheet for the cookies (never done that before) and put it on top of
one of the other sheets, which was upside down on top of the heavy
bottom sheets - 3 sheets in all. That worked fine, of course, but I
don't know that I want to do that indefinitely. 3 sheets is a little
complex. I could just leave two of them in the oven, I guess, most all
the time.

Thanks for the ideas!

Dan

Dan_Musicant said:

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 04:22:17 GMT, Adam Preble
<[email hidden]> wrote:

😄an_Musicant wrote:
:> Some years ago I developed a recipe for cookies that knocked my socks
:> off and part of the process of making these cookies to perfection was
:> developing the perfect cooking scenario. I shopped quite a number of
:> stores until I went into one that had what was for me a perfect cookie
:> sheet. It was a Mirro Ebonware 17" x 14" with PermaCote non-stick inside
:> & out (top and bottom). I actually bake these cookies on the bottom, not
:> the top of the sheet, and slide the sheet on top of a large, thick
:> bottom sheet of steel (1/16th inch thick), which always remains in the
:> oven on a rack a bit more than 1/2 way up the oven. This leaves an
:> insulating layer of air of about 1/2 inch between the steel bottom sheet
:> and the cookie sheet, because the raised edges of the non-stick sheet
:> raise it up. This has the effect of lessening any tendency of the
:> bottoms of the cookies to burn and results in superior cookies.
:>
:> The store had a good deal on these ($2.99 each, a very good deal even
:> then), and I bought 3. I generally use them for all my baking, not just
:> these cookies.
:>
:> I'm down to my last good one. Does anyone know where I might find
:> similar two-sided non-stick cookie sheets? I have never seen them
:> anywhere else and my brief internet searches this morning haven't turned
:> up anything. Thanks.
:>
:> Dan
:
:I think the material is silicone. Searching for silicone baking sheets
:or silicone baking mats comes up with a few things. I have one here and
:it has proven useful especially for cookies. For those out of the know,
:cookies slide right off of them. The one I have has the same issue of
:yours with the sidedness--or so it seems. Mine has a bumpy side and a
:smooth side. The cookies are instructed to go on the smooth side.
:
:It sounds like you had a good price on them. Let me know if you find
:them online for that much at a reputeable seller.

Silicone? Hmm. I don't know what's on mine, it just says "non-stick"
surface, maybe what they used to call "teflon." Cookies definitely don't
"slide right off of them." I have to scrape them off (with a plastic
spatula), and even so they leave a thin layer of cookie, unless I scrape
real hard. A surface that would really have the cookies slide right off
would be awesome. However, I really like my system of having an
insulating layer of air between a bottom sheet and the cookie sheet to
prevent undue browning of the cookie bottoms.

Silicone cookie sheets are magic. By "sliding off," I really mean you
can pull the sheet out from under the cookies. Maybe you do have a
teflon baking sheet, but I rarely see that. Then again, I have a thing
against teflon; it could be right in front of my face and my mind would
gloss over it.

Your system is not unique, but that goes to show it has proven itself
effective. A good example of that is those "air bake" sheets that have
the layer inside. These would normally sound like a great idea, but the
novelty dies the moment you get some soaking water inside one and can't
get it out.

You could use a silicone sheet with your method, at least as I imagine
it. The silicone sheets are very flexible and actually need a sheet
under them to support them. The bumps on one side may be to give that
air pocket you want.

Dan_Musicant said:

Where do you get a cooking parchment? Never heard of that before.
Thanks.

go to the grocery store... it's usually found with the foil and waxed
paper. You won't need baking parchment if you use Air-Bake.

Quoted message said:

Air-Bake, never heard of that either. Are they in the stores? I'd like
to see some. I live in Berkeley, CA.

I live on the other side of the Bay Bridge from you and I would find
it at Target or Target.com.

..... but why not just reuse your old baking sheets and use a sheet of
Silpat (or another brand) if sticking is a problem?
http://homecooking.about.com/cs/productreviews/gr/silpat.htm
http://www.surlatable.com/common/google/search.cfm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008T960/102-6862417-6121716?v=glance

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:13:14 -0700, sf <[email hidden]> wrote:

:On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:10:13 GMT, Dan_Musicant wrote:
:>
:> Where do you get a cooking parchment? Never heard of that before.
:> Thanks.
:>
:go to the grocery store... it's usually found with the foil and waxed
:paper. You won't need baking parchment if you use Air-Bake.
:
:> Air-Bake, never heard of that either. Are they in the stores? I'd like
:> to see some. I live in Berkeley, CA.
:
:I live on the other side of the Bay Bridge from you and I would find
:it at Target or Target.com.
:
:.... but why not just reuse your old baking sheets and use a sheet of
:Silpat (or another brand) if sticking is a problem?
:http://homecooking.about.com/cs/productreviews/gr/silpat.htm
:http://www.surlatable.com/common/google/search.cfm
:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008T960/102-6862417-6121716?v=glance
:

Sticking isn't the problem. My baking sheets (two of the three I bought
some years ago) are starting to flake away their non-stick coating on
the side I typically use. I'm a bit worried that it's not healthy to
ingest this stuff. Maybe it isn't, maybe it just goes right through you,
but if it's in any way metabolized, maybe it's carcinogenic. Anybody
know? These sheets probably have a later version of "teflon."

What I've been doing since posting this thread is use the other side of
one of my used sheets and put it on top of another of them, which is
"upside down." This gives me a good surface to cook on and gives the
layer of air, with an additional aluminum layer in there to boot. The
results have been excellent. However, I've learned a lot in this thread
- about silicone sheets and parchment, both of which are new to me. And
Silpat, is that just silicone? Thanks for the links!

Dan_Musicant said:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:13:14 -0700, sf <[email hidden]> wrote:

:On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:10:13 GMT, Dan_Musicant wrote:

Quoted message said:

:http://homecooking.about.com/cs/productreviews/gr/silpat.htm

Quoted message said:

Silpat, is that just silicone? Thanks for the links!

Here is what the I gave you has to say:
* Silicon and fiberglass non-stick surface.

Dan_Musicant said:

Can you please tell me what the thing is for kosher salt? I don't know
why kosher salt is advantageous over ordinary salt. It's all just NaCl,
right? Is it just that kosher salt is larger granules?
:
:You should be able to get parchment paper at a slightly more upscale
:suburban store like Bed Bath and Beyond.

You know, I'm not very certain myself. I just started using some and
can't tell much of a difference. The larger grains do serve a purpose,
but I think the big thing is about it being more pure. It's my
understanding is that a lot of salt has impurities in it such as
shellfish. This means that most Jewish people cannot consume it. I
just got some cooking books out of the library, so maybe there will be
something in them about it.

Dan,
You might try Silpat which can be used over and over on your old or
replacement cookie sheets. As for a place to pick up the "Air-Bake" if you
have membership to Costco or Sam's Club I have seen them there. The
suggestion for parchment paper and Bed, Bath and & Beyond is probaly good
and you might try Linen and Things. The same goes for the Silpat. It is
runs about $20 per sheet but I have been using mine for all kinds of cooies,
etc for years now.
http://www.laprimashops.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=227 for
a look at Silpat
http://www.kitchengifts.com/parchmentpaper.html for a look at parchment
paper

Oh, noticed that William Sonoma is another source of some of the
suggestions.

Hope this helps.

Mary
"Dan_Musicant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:13:14 -0700, sf <[email hidden]> wrote:

:On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:10:13 GMT, Dan_Musicant wrote:
:>
:> Where do you get a cooking parchment? Never heard of that before.
:> Thanks.
:>
:go to the grocery store... it's usually found with the foil and waxed
:paper. You won't need baking parchment if you use Air-Bake.
:
:> Air-Bake, never heard of that either. Are they in the stores? I'd like
:> to see some. I live in Berkeley, CA.
:
:I live on the other side of the Bay Bridge from you and I would find
:it at Target or Target.com.
:
:.... but why not just reuse your old baking sheets and use a sheet of
:Silpat (or another brand) if sticking is a problem?
:http://homecooking.about.com/cs/productreviews/gr/silpat.htm
:http://www.surlatable.com/common/google/search.cfm
:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008T960/102-6862417-6121716?v=glance
:

Sticking isn't the problem. My baking sheets (two of the three I bought
some years ago) are starting to flake away their non-stick coating on
the side I typically use. I'm a bit worried that it's not healthy to
ingest this stuff. Maybe it isn't, maybe it just goes right through you,
but if it's in any way metabolized, maybe it's carcinogenic. Anybody
know? These sheets probably have a later version of "teflon."

What I've been doing since posting this thread is use the other side of
one of my used sheets and put it on top of another of them, which is
"upside down." This gives me a good surface to cook on and gives the
layer of air, with an additional aluminum layer in there to boot. The
results have been excellent. However, I've learned a lot in this thread
- about silicone sheets and parchment, both of which are new to me. And
Silpat, is that just silicone? Thanks for the links!