convert friction shift to SIS?

It's depends on what it's worth to you.

If you switched to a modern ramped cassette and chain, you could go 8
speed with the old mech, and the shifting would be hugely improved for
a small investment. It would still be friction, but the action would
feel much more "positive".

Is it a freewheel or cassette? You can get screw on freewheels with the
modern type teeth. Cheap.

That's a nice frame, so if you've got the inclination and the money,
I'd say it's well worth going fully modern if that's what you want to
do. You'll save enormous amounts of money sticking with a downtube
index or bar-end system vs. going for new brifters.

If you went for low-middle of the road Shimano kit like 105, you could
probably go clicky for a hundred bucks, but if you want brifters, add
$200 (at least), and I have no idea what a Campy setup would cost.

If it were my ride, I'd probably go the bar-end route, 8spd cassette,
105 rear mech, fresh chain, and some modern comfy brake levers like the
Cane Creek SCR5. That type of setup would cost roughly $150. That's
buying online, btw.

Bill Crowell said:

Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount which presently has Campy Super Record components...

Sure. A vintage Paramount frame and a modern drivetrain would be the
best of both worlds.

I'd go with a 9-speed system (either Campy or Shimano). Get a new rear
wheel, cassette, chain, derailleurs, and shifters.

I did this with my 1984 steel frame a few years ago. I had my frame
(dropouts) spread from 126mm to 130mm, but that's not really necessary.
Lots of folks just stick a 130mm hub in there without problem.

See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/upgrade.html

If you want to go all out, get new dual-pivot brakes and a new
crankeset while you're at it.

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

If you want to go all out, get new dual-pivot brakes and a new
crankeset while you're at it.

beware that new dual pivots on an old frame will require drilling as
they're recessed. I'd try a fresh set of kool-stops first. If my '78
600/Ultegra sidepulls can lock a wheel from the hoods, I bet some
Record calipers with good shoes can as well. I'll concede that the
newer brakes take a bit less effort and I've got burly hands, so that's
a bit biased. 😄

You'd have to beat me senseless with a Park tool to make me replace the
very sexy, imho, 80s Record Crankset on a bike. :P That's why I'd go
with shifters that are either friction, or switchable to friction for
the front.

maxo said:

beware that new dual pivots on an old frame will require drilling as they're recessed.

By 1987, most bikes used recessed, short-reach brakes. I don't think
he'd have a problem with that.

Quoted message said:

You'd have to beat me senseless with a Park tool to make me replace the very sexy, imho, 80s Record Crankset on a bike.

I replaced my Campy Record 42-52 cranks with Ultegra 39-53 a few years
ago. The modern cranks shift much better with all the little ramps and
pins. The only heartbreaking moment I had was when I removed the Campy
DT shift levers.

Art Harris

Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes. :S

It's been thirteen years since I sold it. :P

Hated the pink lettering, but otherwise it rode very nicely

maxo said:

Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.

My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
'89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell

Sure it makes sense to convert the bike if you want the newer brake
lever shifters such as Ergo. 10 speed Campagnolo uses 130mm rear hub
spacing. Your bike may or may not be spaced for a 130mm rear hub.
Measure and find out. Some believe in officially spreading the rear
triangle to fit the wider hub. Some just put it in and go. You
decide. Parts needed for the shifting conversion are 1. Ergo
shift/brake levers. 2. New rear hub or wheel with Campagnolo hub from
about 1997 to present. 3. 10 speed Campagnolo cassette. 4. 10 speed
chain. Not sure about chainrings. Your crank with wide 7 speed rings
spaced for the wider 7 speed chain may or may not work OK with the much
narrower 10 speed chain.

It makes no sense to go with 9 speed. Campagnolo makes all of its
decent groups with 10 speed now. Veloce, Centaur, Chorus, Record. All
interchangeable parts. Campagnolo has been 10 speed since the year
2000. Even that other company has been 10 speed for a year or so now.
There is no shifting or reliability difference on the road between
7-8-9-10 speed.

I always recommend for folks on a bit of a budget to upgrade old bikes
to 8 as I've come to believe the cassettes and chain are a bit more
durable, and they play nice with a mix of old components.

If you're going for a totally new drivetrain, yeah, go all out and make
it an even 10. 😄

Naw - convert it to Ergo (Hey, SOMEONE had to say it!!!)

Actually, I converted a 1971 Raleigh Professional to Ergo and have not
regretted it for a single second.

Quoted message said:

Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell

richard <[email hidden]> wrote in news:%cj1f.219998
$084.217811@attbi_s22:

Quoted message said:

Naw - convert it to Ergo (Hey, SOMEONE had to say it!!!)

Actually, I converted a 1971 Raleigh Professional to Ergo and have not
regretted it for a single second.

Same here with my '75 Peugeot PX10...

Quoted message said:

Does it make any sense to convert an older bike (1987 Schwinn Paramount
which presently has Campy Super Record components; it's my main rider)
to SIS? I realize there has probably been a thread on this before. If
so, would you please refer me to it? Thanks. Bill Crowell

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

Not hard to do it tho-shifters,a rear derailleur, probably a cold set
of the frame, a new rear hub/wheel/cogset/chain. If you use Campagnolo,
the front der will work fine.

BTW-I have friction shifters on my daily ride, a Merckx, and since I
don't race, it wiorks just fine for me on 110-12 hrs per week of
riding. Index shifting is called for for
-beginners
-racers
-mountain bikes....

For all others it certainly is in the 'nice to have' area, but not
essential.

"Art Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maxo said:

Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.

My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
'89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.

Art Harris

I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get teased?
Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I hear
it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I love
the way the older steel frames feel.
-tom

Tom Nakashima said:

"Art Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maxo said:

Hmmm, I don't remember my '89 Trek 1200 having recessed brakes.

My '81 Motobecane Grand Record has recessed brakes! I guess it was a
little ahead of its time. My '84 Palo Alto has nutted brakes, but my
'89 Schwinn Circuit has recessed. I don't own any bikes newer than
that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.

Art Harris

I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get teased?
Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I hear
it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I love
the way the older steel frames feel.
-tom

They stop laughing when I drop them and their plastic bikes.

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
still trying to shift my downtuble levers.

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"Art Harris" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't own any bikes newer than
that. The '84 and '89 are set up with 9-speed STI.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just curious, do any of you riders who ride the older frames get
teased?
Sometimes a little sarcasm from fellow riders. I also ride older steel
frames, a 1977 Rodriguez reynolds 531 frame and a 1984 Eisentraut. I
hear
it a lot in a joking way of course, but sometimes it can wear on you. I
love
the way the older steel frames feel.
-tom

Quoted message said:

They stop laughing when I drop them and their plastic bikes.

Yeah, that too. I'm always amused by the newbies who seem to buy a new bike
each year in search of the magical ONE that will make them a better rider.

Tom, if someone thinks his fat tube, aggressive looking bike is better than
your '84 Eisentraut, that's his loss.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
still trying to shift my downtuble levers.

ERGO. You will be pedaling away from him because he is using Shimano
and can only shift to a smaller cog one at a time. But Ergo allows you
to dump the whole cassette with one push of the thumb. He will still
be clicking his little shift lever while you are riding away from him
in the proper gear.

maxo said:

I always recommend for folks on a bit of a budget to upgrade old bikes
to 8 as I've come to believe the cassettes and chain are a bit more
durable, and they play nice with a mix of old components.

If you're going for a totally new drivetrain, yeah, go all out and make
it an even 10. 😄

Whereas I believe that it's better to got for either 7 or 9 (at least in
Shimano). All the low-end stuff is still stuck at 7 and looks likely to
remain there, whereas the better stuff is 9s or 10s, and 8s cassettes are
not particularly plentiful.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Whereas I believe that it's better to got for either 7 or 9 (at least in
Shimano). All the low-end stuff is still stuck at 7 and looks likely to
remain there, whereas the better stuff is 9s or 10s, and 8s cassettes are
not particularly plentiful.

I tend to agree. Nine speed stuff is still easy enough to find, and is a lot
less expensive than 10-speed. I refuse to follow this never-ending trend to
ever more gears that doesn't provide any real benefit except to the
manufacturers and dealers.

I still have my 6-speed NR group stored away, and if things get too crazy,
I'll go back to that.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

What problem are you trying to solve, what question are you trying to
answer?

The way that, when we crest the top of a hill, my buddy with SIS brake
lever shifters is already pedalling away in his next gear while I am
still trying to shift my downtuble levers.

Just move the DT shifters to bar-end pods. Easy, cheap solution.

- rick