Contrary patterns: drive, radial; non drive, 2x.

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=49&pid=739

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

The ploy is to copy the ploy from Shimano and Mavic - Mavic calls it
'Isopulse lacing' - ooooohhhhhh!

D'ohBoy

Luke said:

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

It actually makes some sense. The drive side has radial spokes which
allows the best possible bracing angle, and the hub body is strong
enough to transfer torque to the left side... so no problem. It's a
lower priced wheel, so they don't bother to hype it.

Look at the RD-600 if you want to see a stupid design...

Ron Ruff said:

It actually makes some sense. The drive side has radial spokes which
allows the best possible bracing angle, and the hub body is strong
enough to transfer torque to the left side... so no problem. It's a
lower priced wheel, so they don't bother to hype it.

Yes, but the wheel is being driven by the slacker side spokes. Maybe
they can call it the Windup Wheel.

Chris

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:00:06 -0700, Ron Ruff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Look at the RD-600 if you want to see a stupid design...

Yup. But the "3 flange hub shelters 1/3 of spokes from wind and
simplifies load transfer"....

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

Like the marketeers say..'It's for selling"-doesn't have to make
sense, just gotta be different so the marketeers can make this claim
or that...

Quoted message said:

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=49&pid=739

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

Chris Nelson said:

Yes, but the wheel is being driven by the slacker side spokes. Maybe
they can call it the Windup Wheel.

The left side flange is very large, so I don't think this would be an
issue.

Luke said:

Yup. But the "3 flange hub shelters 1/3 of spokes from wind and
simplifies load transfer"....

Doesn't shelter anything from the wind (tests poorly in wind tunnels),
but I guess it does "simplify load transfer"... whatever that means.
Why not have the spokes provide lateral stability and torque transfer
at the same time? But at least the center spokes on the back wheel do
*something*... on the front wheel they are only along for the ride
since there is no torque to speak of.

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

I head that some, if not all, of these wheels with radial right side,
and crossed left side -- with a big 'ol left side flange as well,
compared with a small right-side flange, --- at any rate, at least one
of these wheels "just coincidentally" has all spokes the same length.

Now, these wheels need a beefed-up shell, the presumed improved bracing
angle can be gotten by lacing 2-cross with heads in, and the side which
would benefit from a larger flange is not the one that has it. So, why
do they do this? My bet is that they save inventory by only having to
get one length of spokes, and they hype up the "advantages" rather than
admit they are being cheap.

--

David L. Johnson

The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand mathematics.

On Sep 1, 6:07 pm, "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

Quoted message said:

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

I head that some, if not all, of these wheels with radial right side,
and crossed left side -- with a big 'ol left side flange as well,
compared with a small right-side flange, --- at any rate, at least one
of these wheels "just coincidentally" has all spokes the same length.

Now, these wheels need a beefed-up shell, the presumed improved bracing
angle can be gotten by lacing 2-cross with heads in, and the side which
would benefit from a larger flange is not the one that has it. So, why
do they do this? My bet is that they save inventory by only having to
get one length of spokes, and they hype up the "advantages" rather than
admit they are being cheap.

Bingo! Cheaper to make, easier to sell - it's a marketeer's dream!

Chris Nelson said:

Ron Ruff said:

It actually makes some sense. The drive side has radial spokes which
allows the best possible bracing angle, and the hub body is strong
enough to transfer torque to the left side... so no problem. It's a
lower priced wheel, so they don't bother to hype it.

Yes, but the wheel is being driven by the slacker side spokes.

that's not a problem - only in the jobstian world can tension be
mistakenly equated with strength.

Quoted message said:

Maybe
they can call it the Windup Wheel.

Chris

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=49&pid=739

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

don't you mean, what's the "engineering rationale" for this design? if
that is your question, the answers are simple:

1. radial lacing helps the drive side bracing angle very slightly, and
thus spoke tension differential.
2. the hub is stiff enough to transmit torque to the nds spokes.

contrary to what you might read when considering these issues, the old
days of 5 speed freewheels and even flange spacing are over. as are the
days of pencil-thin hub bodies that cannot transmit torque.

In article <[email hidden]>, jim beam

Quoted message said:

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=49&pid=739

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

don't you mean, what's the "engineering rationale" for this design? if
that is your question, the answers are simple:

1. radial lacing helps the drive side bracing angle very slightly, and
thus spoke tension differential.
2. the hub is stiff enough to transmit torque to the nds spokes.

contrary to what you might read when considering these issues, the old
days of 5 speed freewheels and even flange spacing are over. as are the
days of pencil-thin hub bodies that cannot transmit torque.

So the engineering rationale behind this design necessitates a heavier
more robust hub design than a typical 2 or 3X DS lacing pattern. And
also relegate transmission of torque to the less efficient route, to
the slacker NDS spokes of the wheel.

Racing wheels place a premium on stiffness and lightweight: if the
engineering of the design requires extra mass compared to competing
schemes, and transmission of power is less efficient then it could be,
then guess what? you've a poorly designed product, its engineering
notwithstanding.

And I did mean what's the marketing ploy for this design.

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, jim beam

Quoted message said:

Luke said:

What is the rationale behind this spoke pattern - it's contrary to all
conventional wisdom?

From the photos (click to enlarge) FSA's RD-88 rear wheel is laced 0x
drive side, 2x non-drive. Does the wheel's hub design mitigate the ill
effects of such a pattern?

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=49&pid=739

I don't see a sales pitch for the wheel. What's the marketing ploy for
this design?

don't you mean, what's the "engineering rationale" for this design? if
that is your question, the answers are simple:

1. radial lacing helps the drive side bracing angle very slightly, and
thus spoke tension differential.
2. the hub is stiff enough to transmit torque to the nds spokes.

contrary to what you might read when considering these issues, the old
days of 5 speed freewheels and even flange spacing are over. as are the
days of pencil-thin hub bodies that cannot transmit torque.

So the engineering rationale behind this design necessitates a heavier
more robust hub design than a typical 2 or 3X DS lacing pattern. And
also relegate transmission of torque to the less efficient route, to
the slacker NDS spokes of the wheel.

whoa there cowboy - "efficiency" and "slackness" are not the same thing.
and tension is not a factor in elasticity.

Quoted message said:

Racing wheels place a premium on stiffness

yes, that's why you want to address the issue about bracing angle.

Quoted message said:

and lightweight:

if that was your objective, you'd have your panties in a bunch about
tubular tires/rims.

Quoted message said:

if the
engineering of the design requires extra mass compared to competing
schemes, and transmission of power is less efficient then it could be,
then guess what? you've a poorly designed product, its engineering
notwithstanding.

And I did mean what's the marketing ploy for this design.

you can use whatever makes you happiest. but understand what you're
looking at first.