Continuing on Induction

Sure, you can stay on Induction as long as you want. Sounds like your doing
great. Keep it up.
Curt

"Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling terribly
deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good now, the
headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying this stage of
the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks

Christa

"Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling terribly
deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good now, the
headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying this stage of
the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be appreciated.

Atkins mentioned in his book that the reason he picked 20g a day for
Induction is because that level is so low that just about everybody will
lose weight. But if, for instance, your GCL is 50g/day, and you eat 20g/day
that does NOT necessarily mean you will lose more weight by staying at a
lower carb/day limit

The quote below is from Chapter 10 (Time to review your 14-day results) in
ANDR Heading is "Success and Long-Term Satisfaction" Atkins New Diet
Revolution ("revised & updated" is in the corner of it) Paperback, copyright
1999.

"The Atkins low-carbohydrate diet has many levels, and is made for many
different types of people. The high-fat, deep-ketosis form of it that you've
just experienced is not THE diet but an extreme variation of it. And the
fact is that most of the time spend on the Atkins diet is not spent on this
level. This first level, the INDUCTION level, is to be used whenever
ketosis/lipolysis must be induced, but I do not advise staying on this level
for any length of time, unless it is the only level that works"

I would advise moving on from Induction to OWL. It sounds to me like
Induction served its purpose - your cravings are gone, you feel better, and
you've had proof that this diet works. Adding 5 carbs each week is not a
LOT anyway, so it won't be a dramatic change from what you've been doing,
but going into OWL IS the next step (no matter if you postpone it or not) in
your weightloss.

Personally, I stayed on Induction longer than the 2 weeks, because I didn't
want to end something that was obviously working well on my weight loss. I
ended up stalling for weeks until I finally moved on to OWL (after being
chewed out by people on this group for staying on induction, if I recall
correctly). Being able to add in some fruits and more veggies meant that I
was eating far fewer calories, and my weightloss returned.

This question of yours comes up a LOT in this group. If you'd like to read
more:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/search?group=alt.support.diet.low-carb&q=staying+induction&qt_g=1&searchnow=Search+this+group

Good luck!

--
Spring
LC since 1/1/04
260/200/170

"Before" & "current" pics at link below:
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sprgsnow/album?.tok=phX4sVBBuvxvs4Hs&.dir=/55b8&.src=ph

Christa said:

Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling terribly
deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good now, the
headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying this stage of
the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks

Christa

I would move on to OWL. OWL *DOES NOT* mean you eat more or you're
deprived less. You are working with your body chemistry and carbs are
not evils. You're shifting composition--that's all. You need to
relearn what you can eat, what triggers cravings, triggers water
gain(glucose storage), etc. This is a long term change in eating
behavior and the sooner you start working on learning how to eat
permanently to better control your weight the sooner you'll reach a
point of control. Carb starvation is not THE answer. Eventually you
will eat carbs again, and if you stay focus on only shorting carbs to
an extreme you're more likely to suffer from the binge/bounce back.

Also, I thought I was fine at 20 and stayed for 5 weeks. When I got
past 25 I suddenly felt so much better--I didn't realize I wasn't
feeling good. I was more alert and energetic at 25-30. I also lost the
most weight at weeks when I was 30-35. Also Weeks 3 and 4 are
typcially low to no loss weeks. Lots of people have a short "stall"
after the initial loss. Some research shows that thryoid levels drop
after two weeks of low eating slowing body processes and temperature.
This conserves energy and results in no further weight loss.
Anectodally, people in this group have kicked started loss during a
stall by INCREASING carbs, not by decreasing calories as traditional
ddieting usually insructs.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/271/225 month-start: 274 monthly-goal: 8 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

Christa said:

Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling terribly
deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good now, the
headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying this stage of
the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks

Christa

I would move on to OWL. OWL *DOES NOT* mean you eat more or you're
deprived less. You are working with your body chemistry and carbs are
not evils. You're shifting composition--that's all. You need to
relearn what you can eat, what triggers cravings, triggers water
gain(glucose storage), etc. This is a long term change in eating
behavior and the sooner you start working on learning how to eat
permanently to better control your weight the sooner you'll reach a
point of control. Carb starvation is not THE answer. Eventually you
will eat carbs again, and if you stay focus on only shorting carbs to
an extreme you're more likely to suffer from the binge/bounce back.

Also, I thought I was fine at 20 and stayed for 5 weeks. When I got
past 25 I suddenly felt so much better--I didn't realize I wasn't
feeling good. I was more alert and energetic at 25-30. I also lost the
most weight at weeks when I was 30-35. Also Weeks 3 and 4 are
typcially low to no loss weeks. Lots of people have a short "stall"
after the initial loss. Some research shows that thryoid levels drop
after two weeks of low eating slowing body processes and temperature.
This conserves energy and results in no further weight loss.
Anectodally, people in this group have kicked started loss during a
stall by INCREASING carbs, not by decreasing calories as traditional
ddieting usually insructs.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/271/225 month-start: 274 monthly-goal: 8 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

"OWL *DOES NOT* mean you eat more or you're
deprived less."

Well, yes it does, because the list of allowed foods increases which
allows one to eat more food choices and the strict restrictions on
quantity of cheese goes up as another example.

Quoted post said:

"OWL *DOES NOT* mean you eat more or you're
deprived less."

Well, yes it does, because the list of allowed foods increases which
allows one to eat more food choices and the strict restrictions on
quantity of cheese goes up as another example.

LOL, well for me allowing me to have nuts, three extra slices of
cheese, or slightly more carby veggies and salad DOES NOT reduce the
sense of deprivation. Give me chocolate and then we can talk about
reducing deprivation. ANd I think that's where it counts. Sure you can
vary your meals more, but you're still consciously avoiding so much
that at that stage (first few weeks) it is more about what you can't
eat than what you can.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/271/225 month-start: 274 monthly-goal: 8 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

marengo said:

"DigitalVinyl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| "Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
||| December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
||| this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
||| multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
||| keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
||| continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling
||| terribly deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good
||| now, the headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying
||| this stage of the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be
||| appreciated. Thanks
|||
||| Christa
||

||
|| Also, I thought I was fine at 20 and stayed for 5 weeks. When I got
|| past 25 I suddenly felt so much better--I didn't realize I wasn't
|| feeling good. I was more alert and energetic at 25-30.

Interesting. This must be a YMMV thing, because unquestionably I realize
the fullest health benefits when I keep my carbs as low as possible (lower
blood pressure, triglycierides and cholesterol, vanished symptoms of GERD
and IBS, eczema relief, stable blood sugar, no insomnia, complete relief
from full-blown panic attacks for which I took Paxil pre-low carb). As I
increase my carbs above 20g/day, many of these health issues begin to creep
back in. I feel energized at lower carb levels also, because I get a
constant, consistent supply of energy from ketones instead of the spikes and
valleys that accompany higher carbs levels. (I'm T2 diabetic, so maybe
everyone doesn't realize the same impact of blood-sugar leveling effect of
very low carbs that I experience).

I don't have any of those problems. My blood workup was never bad
except for too low HDL, I sleep like a rock, iron cast stomach, etc. I
have never been diagnosed with blood sugar issues.

Quoted message said:

I also lost
|| the most weight at weeks when I was 30-35.

I lose consistently at >20g, and stall as soon as I increase. I can
maintain at 30 or 40g/day. Again, this must be a YMMV thing; everybody's
metabolism is different.

Also Weeks 3 and 4 are
|| typcially low to no loss weeks. Lots of people have a short "stall"
|| after the initial loss.

Very true.

Some research shows that thryoid levels drop
|| after two weeks of low eating slowing body processes and temperature.
|| This conserves energy and results in no further weight loss.

Can you cite some sources for this? This is the first time I've heard it,

Doug Freyburger made some posts on this--and I think i reiterated it
correctly. I'll see if I have some old posts. The conversion to
fat-burning which Atkins theorized about has to happen within the
first week or two--the water whoosh is when you glycogen/glucose
stores empty(liver and muscles). I would think you are well into
ketosis when it happens--I'd say it is the ultimate sign of ketosis.
You are officially out of carbs and burning off reserves.

Your thyroid is the body's thermostat and any time the body needs to
ramp up metabolism (that's why you get a fever to fight colds) or slow
it down to conserve, thyroid is the chemical method to send out the
commands. If I'm losing steadily and suddenly, without shifting
calories, stop. I assume my thyroid is in conservation mode. I'm
burning less fuel for no observable reason. The thryoid certainly
seems like the likely candidate for how that can happen. And we aren't
talking about a dysfunction here--this is supposed to work this way.

Quoted message said:

and I'm curious. From what I've experienced and from what I've he ard other
people say, the ubiquitous third-week stall is because the body is going
through a rather significant change from burning consumed fuel to burning
the ketones. After the initial glycogen dump accompanied by the associated
water loss, the body tries to hold onto its weight because it thinks it's
being starved. But once it adjusts to burning the ketones, there's usually
a whoosh, weight loss resumes, and energy levels and sense of well-being
increase dramatically. But I've never heard of low-carb eating affecting
the thyroid leve;ls. In fact, I had mine checked 90 days into my initial
low-carb eating plan, and my thyroid level was perfect. And I stayed with

Quoted message said:

20g carbs for several months.

|| Anectodally, people in this group have kicked started loss during a
|| stall by INCREASING carbs, not by decreasing calories as traditional
|| ddieting usually insructs.

|| DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)

In certain circumstances, but not necessarily always true. When you
increase carbs, you quite often substitute them for fat, decreasing calories
consumed since fat has more calories per gram than carbs. But I agree
that -- and I have no understanding at all of why it works -- occassionally
a brief "carb hit" can break a stall in certain circumstances. The best
example I personally had was the old movie popcorn thing. I had been
stalled for a while, and when I went to a movie I gave in to eating a large
poopcorn. The next morning I had dropped 3 pounds! Go figure! However, I
immediately returned to my >20g and contiuned to lose.

One thing that I've learned in my time on this WOE is that while many books
and gurus lay out guidelines for low-carb eating plans, it really boils down
to an individual thing. Nobody has all the answers -- (certainly not I!) --
and as we stick with our low-carb eating we go through a learning process
and discover what does and doesn't work for us. I think that while all of
the great low-carb plans are valuable, in the end it boils down to how our
own metabolisms react to different levels and regimens. IMHO.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/271/225 month-start: 274 monthly-goal: 8 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

Hi,

DigitalVinyl said:

Your thyroid is the body's thermostat and any time the body needs to
ramp up metabolism (that's why you get a fever to fight colds) or
slow it down to conserve, thyroid is the chemical method to send out
the
commands

Fever results from cytokines, which are chemicals made by immune
system cells. They make the hypothalamus ramp up body temp to produce
fever. Thyroid twiddles its thumbs. :-)

Take care,
Carmen

DigitalVinyl wrote:
|| "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| "OWL *DOES NOT* mean you eat more or you're
||| deprived less."
|||
||| Well, yes it does, because the list of allowed foods increases which
||| allows one to eat more food choices and the strict restrictions on
||| quantity of cheese goes up as another example.
||
|| LOL, well for me allowing me to have nuts, three extra slices of
|| cheese, or slightly more carby veggies and salad DOES NOT reduce the
|| sense of deprivation. Give me chocolate and then we can talk about
|| reducing deprivation. ANd I think that's where it counts. Sure you
|| can vary your meals more, but you're still consciously avoiding so
|| much that at that stage (first few weeks) it is more about what you
|| can't eat than what you can.

DV....learn to live with a little "deprivation"....it ain't so bad in this
society. The reason I say that is because you can end it immediately.
What, to me, would be tre deprivation is if I could never, EVER get
something I really want. Making a choice not to eat chocolate or some other
carby thing is what I want to do - hence, is not deprivation.

::
: DV....learn to live with a little "deprivation"....it ain't so bad in this
: society. The reason I say that is because you can end it immediately.
: What, to me, would be tre deprivation is if I could never, EVER get
: something I really want. Making a choice not to eat chocolate or some
other
: carby thing is what I want to do - hence, is not deprivation.

Making the choice not to eat something makes me feel more "in control" than
I ever was before, when I was fat. It reinforces to me that I am in charge.

Pat in TX
:
:
:

"DigitalVinyl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]
|| "Christa" <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Friday is to be my last day of induction...well actually I started
||| December 27th but decided to consider January 1 my start date.....At
||| this point, my cravings have pretty much disappeared, I am taking a
||| multivitamin and still eating a fair amount of green veggies and
||| keeping it under 20grams of carbs a day. Is there any reason not to
||| continue induction for another 2 weeks if you are not feeling
||| terribly deprived on it? I don't feel hungry and feel pretty good
||| now, the headaches and cravings have lessoned and I am enjoying
||| this stage of the diet. Any thoughts, facts or opinions would be
||| appreciated. Thanks
|||
||| Christa
||

||
|| Also, I thought I was fine at 20 and stayed for 5 weeks. When I got
|| past 25 I suddenly felt so much better--I didn't realize I wasn't
|| feeling good. I was more alert and energetic at 25-30.

Interesting. This must be a YMMV thing, because unquestionably I realize
the fullest health benefits when I keep my carbs as low as possible (lower
blood pressure, triglycierides and cholesterol, vanished symptoms of GERD
and IBS, eczema relief, stable blood sugar, no insomnia, complete relief
from full-blown panic attacks for which I took Paxil pre-low carb). As I
increase my carbs above 20g/day, many of these health issues begin to creep
back in. I feel energized at lower carb levels also, because I get a
constant, consistent supply of energy from ketones instead of the spikes and
valleys that accompany higher carbs levels. (I'm T2 diabetic, so maybe
everyone doesn't realize the same impact of blood-sugar leveling effect of
very low carbs that I experience).

I also lost
|| the most weight at weeks when I was 30-35.

I lose consistently at >20g, and stall as soon as I increase. I can
maintain at 30 or 40g/day. Again, this must be a YMMV thing; everybody's
metabolism is different.

Also Weeks 3 and 4 are
|| typcially low to no loss weeks. Lots of people have a short "stall"
|| after the initial loss.

Very true.

Some research shows that thryoid levels drop
|| after two weeks of low eating slowing body processes and temperature.
|| This conserves energy and results in no further weight loss.

Can you cite some sources for this? This is the first time I've heard it,
and I'm curious. From what I've experienced and from what I've he ard other
people say, the ubiquitous third-week stall is because the body is going
through a rather significant change from burning consumed fuel to burning
the ketones. After the initial glycogen dump accompanied by the associated
water loss, the body tries to hold onto its weight because it thinks it's
being starved. But once it adjusts to burning the ketones, there's usually
a whoosh, weight loss resumes, and energy levels and sense of well-being
increase dramatically. But I've never heard of low-carb eating affecting
the thyroid leve;ls. In fact, I had mine checked 90 days into my initial
low-carb eating plan, and my thyroid level was perfect. And I stayed with

Quoted message said:

20g carbs for several months.

|| Anectodally, people in this group have kicked started loss during a
|| stall by INCREASING carbs, not by decreasing calories as traditional
|| ddieting usually insructs.

|| DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)

In certain circumstances, but not necessarily always true. When you
increase carbs, you quite often substitute them for fat, decreasing calories
consumed since fat has more calories per gram than carbs. But I agree
that -- and I have no understanding at all of why it works -- occassionally
a brief "carb hit" can break a stall in certain circumstances. The best
example I personally had was the old movie popcorn thing. I had been
stalled for a while, and when I went to a movie I gave in to eating a large
poopcorn. The next morning I had dropped 3 pounds! Go figure! However, I
immediately returned to my >20g and contiuned to lose.

One thing that I've learned in my time on this WOE is that while many books
and gurus lay out guidelines for low-carb eating plans, it really boils down
to an individual thing. Nobody has all the answers -- (certainly not I!) --
and as we stick with our low-carb eating we go through a learning process
and discover what does and doesn't work for us. I think that while all of
the great low-carb plans are valuable, in the end it boils down to how our
own metabolisms react to different levels and regimens. IMHO.
--
Peter
270/219/180
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo