connex 10 speed chain

Steve Karpik said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She was
standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she lost
her balance and crashed.

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes. It's a 10 speed Campy drive
train with a Connex chain on a Cervelo 2.5 Chorus with FSA carbon
cranks. Any idea whether these chains are prone to problems (missed or
bad shifts under pressure)? I suppose it could be a derailleur
adustment problem or chain stretching for that matter.

Wait wait wait... before anything else, you can help settle a recent
controversy the use of this term here: what exactly to you mean by
"chain stretching"? Please be as specific as possible.

As to your problem:
1. I've never heard of particular problems with the Connex chain but
others here would know better. They are not as popular as SRAM or S or
C. I doubt though the problem is with the chain, unless there was a
stiff link.
2. Shifting to a smaller rear cog while standing and pedalling hard
going uphill is a tough test. Perhaps too tough. Question: did it jam
or did it slip? There is quite a difference and this might help the
diagnosis. If it jammed, between what and what?

41 said:

Steve Karpik said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She was
standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she lost
her balance and crashed.

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes. It's a 10 speed Campy drive
train with a Connex chain on a Cervelo 2.5 Chorus with FSA carbon
cranks. Any idea whether these chains are prone to problems (missed or
bad shifts under pressure)? I suppose it could be a derailleur
adustment problem or chain stretching for that matter.

Wait wait wait... before anything else, you can help settle a recent
controversy the use of this term here: what exactly to y ou mean by
"chain stretching"? Please be as specific as possible.

Just to explain a little more: the controversy was not over chain
stretch, rather about what people who are experienced in cycling yet
new to this group mean when they say "chain stretch". More than a
little convoluted, true, but surprise surprise, the exchange got
heated.

Back to your problem. Sorry about the crash and hope it wasn't too bad.
If the chain had jammed you would have seen it and known it, so I
surmise it slipped. Then this is just a missed shift. So, why? Could be
out of adjustment but a better guess might be insufficient lubrication
at the BB cable guides:

<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/autoshift.html>

Steve Karpik said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She was
standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she lost
her balance and crashed.

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes.

I would look to see what the causes were. Chain separated?, link
damage?

Doubt it was der adjust since she was going away from the wheel when
shifting. I suspect a damaged chain somehow, perhaps a link problem
which prevented the chain from going thru the rear der, pulling it
backwards, stopping wheel-crash.

Most of the chain issues we see are from poor installation.

It's a 10 speed Campy drive

Quoted message said:

train with a Connex chain on a Cervelo 2.5 Chorus with FSA carbon
cranks. Any idea whether these chains are prone to problems (missed or
bad shifts under pressure)? I suppose it could be a derailleur
adustment problem or chain stretching for that matter. But I'd just
like to get people's thoughts on this chain. I tend to be a bit of a
stick in the mud. If it's a 10 speed Shimano drive train, I like to
use a 10 speed Shimano chain. Similarly with Campy. No mixing and
matching. However the bike came supplied with the Connex chain.

Maybe I'm fussing about nothing here and the cause is elsewhere.

Steve Karpik

Quoted message said:

Steve Karpik said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She was
standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she lost
her balance and crashed.

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes.

The Connex link MUST be installed the right way around. Looking at the
drive side of the bike (from the right), when the snap link is on the
top horizontal length of chain, the cutout should look heart
shaped..i.e, the cut out starts at the top, lowers towards the centre,
and then rises again to the top.

YOU MUST FIT IT THE RIGHT WAY AROUND

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

"MSA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Steve Karpik said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She was
standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she lost
her balance and crashed.

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes.

The Connex link MUST be installed the right way around. Looking at the
drive side of the bike (from the right), when the snap link is on the top
horizontal length of chain, the cutout should look heart shaped..i.e, the
cut out starts at the top, lowers towards the centre, and then rises again
to the top.

YOU MUST FIT IT THE RIGHT WAY AROUND

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Hey Mark, I've never heard that. I've been using Wipperman and Campy
chains with the connex link for years and have never heard this. I will go
home tonight and check both bikes....see if I notice any difference.

John

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John said:

"MSA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Connex link MUST be installed the right way around. Looking at the
drive side of the bike (from the right), when the snap link is on the top
horizontal length of chain, the cutout should look heart shaped..i.e, the
cut out starts at the top, lowers towards the centre, and then rises again
to the top.

YOU MUST FIT IT THE RIGHT WAY AROUND

Quoted message said:

Hey Mark, I've never heard that. I've been using Wipperman and Campy
chains with the connex link for years and have never heard this. I will go
home tonight and check both bikes....see if I notice any difference.

The orientation is also described in the little instruction sheet that
comes with Connex chains (maybe with the link too).

JT

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Mark Conyer said:

Quoted message said:

I rider that I coach crashed yesterday in a race on an uphill. She
was standing and shifted to a harder gear on the rear derailleur.
Something didn't work with the shift, it jammed or slipped and she
lost her balance and crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to sort out the obvious causes.

For that, I believe knowing what occurred is important. Did the chain
skip into free-wheeling or did it jam, and if it jammed, what unjammed
it. We have insufficient information to draw reasonable conclusions.

Quoted message said:

The Connex link MUST be installed the right way around. Looking at
the drive side of the bike (from the right), when the snap link is
on the top horizontal length of chain, the cutout should look heart
shaped..i.e, the cut out starts at the top, lowers towards the
centre, and then rises again to the top.

Quoted message said:

YOU MUST FIT IT THE RIGHT WAY AROUND

Could you explain what effect the orientation of the master link has?
If the link can be installed in the wrong orientation, it will be
incorrect as often as not. Can you cite an admonition to that effect
in the Wipperman installation instructions?

http://tinyurl.com/crb2e

I have a hard time with absolute statements to which I can find no
logical supporting evidence. They sound like religious dogma.

Jobst Brandt

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my two
bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the other
upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode or
shifted.

Eagle Jackson said:

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my two
bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the other
upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode or
shifted.

Supposedly it doesn't work so well on very small cogs.

JT

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I have noticed that the connex links have to be installed int he
correct orientation or they do cause some skipping. Predominantly on
the smaller cogs, 11t-13t's.. Larger ones didn't seem to affect it. I
mistakenly did one wrong on my own bike and it was painfully obvious in
the stand that it just didn't fly, so I flipped it, and life was good.
There is anotherh problem with them, but it is mostly on the shimano
ones.. They seem to have a propensity to break.. a run of chains with
weakend/weak side plates got made, and the link pins pull through. not
cool. warranty them out though..

I have noticed that the connex links have to be installed int he
correct orientation or they do cause some skipping. Predominantly on
the smaller cogs, 11t-13t's.. Larger ones didn't seem to affect it. I
mistakenly did one wrong on my own bike and it was painfully obvious in
the stand that it just didn't fly, so I flipped it, and life was good.
There is anotherh problem with them, but it is mostly on the shimano
ones.. They seem to have a propensity to break.. a run of chains with
weakend/weak side plates got made, and the link pins pull through. not
cool. warranty them out though..

I have noticed that the connex links have to be installed int he
correct orientation or they do cause some skipping. Predominantly on
the smaller cogs, 11t-13t's.. Larger ones didn't seem to affect it. I
mistakenly did one wrong on my own bike and it was painfully obvious in
the stand that it just didn't fly, so I flipped it, and life was good.
There is anotherh problem with them, but it is mostly on the shimano
ones.. They seem to have a propensity to break.. a run of chains with
weakend/weak side plates got made, and the link pins pull through. not
cool. warranty them out though..

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Quoted message said:

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my
two bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the
other upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode
or shifted.

Quoted message said:

Supposedly it doesn't work so well on very small cogs.

Don't do that! What do you mean by "supposedly" and how is that
caused. This is not religion class. We can't rely on the
infallibility of the Pope here. "Let's get to the facks ma'am, just
the facks", as Sgt. Friday would say.

Jobst Brandt

someone said:

I have noticed that the connex links have to be installed in the
correct orientation or they do cause some skipping. Predominantly
on the smaller cogs, 11t-13t's.. Larger ones didn't seem to affect
it. I mistakenly did one wrong on my own bike and it was painfully
obvious in the stand that it just didn't fly, so I flipped it, and
life was good.

Quoted message said:

There is another problem with them, but it is mostly on the Shimano
ones.. They seem to have a propensity to break.. a run of chains
with weakened/weak side plates got made, and the link pins pull
through. Not cool. Warranty them out though.

This is a far more serious matter than cost. It's safety. When a
chain beaks in a standing sprint the rider generally flies over the
bars. This is why you shouldn't sprint in top gear on SA-AW
three-speed hubs. They reliably pop into neutral under load and speed
due to a basic design problem for which they should be taken to court
for damages. A known chain link flaw such as what you mention is
likewise a major hazard.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Quoted message said:

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my
two bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the
other upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode
or shifted.

Quoted message said:

Supposedly it doesn't work so well on very small cogs.

Don't do that! What do you mean by "supposedly" and how is that
caused. This is not religion class. We can't rely on the
infallibility of the Pope here. "Let's get to the facks ma'am, just
the facks", as Sgt. Friday would say.

"God you're an ass."

-- Me

Quoted message said:

someone said:

I have noticed that the connex links have to be installed in the
correct orientation or they do cause some skipping. Predominantly
on the smaller cogs, 11t-13t's.. Larger ones didn't seem to affect
it. I mistakenly did one wrong on my own bike and it was painfully
obvious in the stand that it just didn't fly, so I flipped it, and
life was good.

Quoted message said:

There is another problem with them, but it is mostly on the Shimano
ones.. They seem to have a propensity to break.. a run of chains
with weakened/weak side plates got made, and the link pins pull
through. Not cool. Warranty them out though.

This is a far more serious matter than cost. It's safety. When a
chain beaks in a standing sprint the rider generally flies over the
bars. This is why you shouldn't sprint in top gear on SA-AW
three-speed hubs. They reliably pop into neutral under load and speed
due to a basic design problem for which they should be taken to court
for damages.

wow, and to think that all those years i had one growing up, and all
those times i'd sprint to the end of the road against my friends, i
never ever had it pop out of gear. not even once. was mine the
defective one if this was otherwise a "reliable" occurance?

Quoted message said:

A known chain link flaw such as what you mention is
likewise a major hazard.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Quoted message said:

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my
two bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the
other upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode
or shifted.

Quoted message said:

Supposedly it doesn't work so well on very small cogs.

Don't do that! What do you mean by "supposedly" and how is that
caused. This is not religion class. We can't rely on the
infallibility of the Pope here. "Let's get to the facks ma'am, just
the facks", as Sgt. Friday would say.

The outside curve of the link is not symmetric. See
http://www.connexchain.com/

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 02:45:23 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Quoted message said:

What happens if fitted with the heart "upside down"? I checked my
two bikes with Connex links and I see one is right side up and the
other upside down. I never noticed any difference in how they rode
or shifted.

Quoted message said:

Supposedly it doesn't work so well on very small cogs.

Don't do that! What do you mean by "supposedly" and how is that
caused. This is not religion class. We can't rely on the
infallibility of the Pope here. "Let's get to the facks ma'am, just
the facks", as Sgt. Friday would say.

OK, I'll be more specific. On my bike they make a clicking noise in
the 12. What this means in performance I don't know -- I blindly
followed the printed instructions not to use it that way after
noticing that problem. Oopps, I don't mean problem since I have no
proof it was a problem. Call it a phenomenom observed by me.

Those instructions seemed to correspond in some way to my experience,
but my experience didn't prove anything. Oops, I shouldn't have said
"seemed" -- please strike that from the recond. Since I don't have an
engineering degree and have not run double-blind tests, I'll try to
refrain from putting in any heresay in this group (though Brandt did
ask if the manafacturer gave any info on this, so I guess heresay is
acceptable in those circumstances.)

But I will refrain. Heresay is not aceptable obviously. Thank you for
keeping us so clear.

Please accept my sincere apologies.

JT

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<snipped>

Quoted message said:

OK, I'll be more specific. On my bike they make a clicking noise in
the 12. What this means in performance I don't know -- I blindly
followed the printed instructions not to use it that way after
noticing that problem. Oopps, I don't mean problem since I have no
proof it was a problem. Call it a phenomenom observed by me.

Those instructions seemed to correspond in some way to my experience,
but my experience didn't prove anything. Oops, I shouldn't have said
"seemed" -- please strike that from the recond. Since I don't have an
engineering degree and have not run double-blind tests, I'll try to
refrain from putting in any heresay in this group (though Brandt did
ask if the manafacturer gave any info on this, so I guess heresay is
acceptable in those circumstances.)

But I will refrain. Heresay is not aceptable obviously. Thank you for
keeping us so clear.

Please accept my sincere apologies.

JT

John,

The "stanfordalumni" part should tell you everything.

John