Complementary and Alternative Medicine is Mainstream

I all in favor of complimentary or alterative medicine being more
accepted. Of course, the same standards of efficacy should be applied
to all.

I look forward to the day when Jan, Elena,Todd and their gang, rail
against the alternative medicine oligarchy conspiracy.

Be careful what you wish for.

j.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Complementary and alternative medicine is mainstream. Scientists who
like to refer to themselves as quackbusters hold a minority viewpoint.
This conclusion is easily supported by 3 separate research studies
which surveyed the 125 medical schools offering a MD degree, the 19
medical schools offering a DO degree, and 585 schools of nuring in the
United States.

MD's - 60 percent of U.S. medical schools reported including
instruction about complementary or alternative medicine (CAM) in their
curricula.

"Medical education is under constant pressure to evolve.4 Changes in
the medical interview over the past few years mirror this evolution.
... The rapid increase of public interest in and use of complementary
and alternative therapies is likewise exerting a powerful influence on
medical education.

In a study exploring the attitudes of 180 family physicians, Berman et
al10 found that physicians had a high degree of interest in
complementary and alternative medicine. Blumberg et al11 found similar
results in 572 responses to a survey of primary care internists. More
than half indicated that they would encourage patients who raise the
possibility of complementary and alternative medicine, and 57% were
willing to refer their patients for treatment for 6 or more
complementary and alternative therapies. ...

As a profession, physicians will increasingly be expected to
responsibly advise patients who use, seek, or demand complementary and
alternative therapies."
Wetzel MS, Eisenberg DM, Kaptchuk TJ. Courses involving complementary
and alternative medicine at US medical schools. JAMA. 1998;280(9):784
-787. PMID: 9729989

DO's - 95% of Osteopathic medical school teach CAM.

"Reflecting society's interest in complementary and alternative
medicine (CAM), most allopathic medical schools in the United States
offer instruction in CAM. ... The authors conclude that the form and
content of CAM instruction at osteopathic medical schools is similar to
that offered at allopathic medical schools."
Saxon DW, Tunnicliff G, Brokaw JJ, Raess BU. Status of complementary
and alternative medicine in the osteopathic medical school curriculum.
J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2004 Mar;104(3):121-6. PMID: 15083987

Nursing - 84.8% of US schools of nursing teach CAM.

"Schools of nursing in the United States have responded to the
increasing consumer use of complementary and alternative modalities and
consumer demand for health professionals knowledgeable in complementary
and alternative modalities by incorporating holistic nursing practices
and complementary and alternative modalities into their curricula. ...
Surveys were sent to 585 US schools of nursing. ... RESULTS: Almost 60%
(n = 74) of the responding schools used the definition of holistic
nursing practice in their curricula and were familiar with the Holistic
Nursing Core Curriculum. The majority (84.8%, n = 106) included
complementary and alternative modalities in their curricula."
Fenton MV, Morris DL. The integration of holistic nursing practices and
complementary and alternative modalities into curricula of schools of
nursing.
Altern Ther Health Med. 2003 Jul-Aug;9(4):62-7. PMID: 12868254

Hence forth, since the science bigots are in the minority I will
require YOU rather than me to justify your Quacky, Bigoted positions on
CAM.

Just thought that you might want to know. 🙂
--
john gohde
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/blog/

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Complementary and alternative medicine is mainstream. Scientists who
like to refer to themselves as quackbusters hold a minority

viewpoint.

Quoted message said:

This conclusion is easily supported by 3 separate research studies
which surveyed the 125 medical schools offering a MD degree, the 19
medical schools offering a DO degree, and 585 schools of nuring in

the

Quoted message said:

United States.

MD's - 60 percent of U.S. medical schools reported including
instruction about complementary or alternative medicine (CAM) in

their

Quoted message said:

curricula.

"Medical education is under constant pressure to evolve.4 Changes in
the medical interview over the past few years mirror this evolution.
... The rapid increase of public interest in and use of complementary
and alternative therapies is likewise exerting a powerful influence

on

Quoted message said:

medical education.

In a study exploring the attitudes of 180 family physicians, Berman

et

Quoted message said:

al10 found that physicians had a high degree of interest in
complementary and alternative medicine. Blumberg et al11 found

similar

Quoted message said:

results in 572 responses to a survey of primary care internists. More
than half indicated that they would encourage patients who raise the
possibility of complementary and alternative medicine, and 57% were
willing to refer their patients for treatment for 6 or more
complementary and alternative therapies. ...

As a profession, physicians will increasingly be expected to
responsibly advise patients who use, seek, or demand complementary

and

Quoted message said:

alternative therapies."
Wetzel MS, Eisenberg DM, Kaptchuk TJ. Courses involving complementary
and alternative medicine at US medical schools. JAMA. 1998;280(9):784
-787. PMID: 9729989

DO's - 95% of Osteopathic medical school teach CAM.

"Reflecting society's interest in complementary and alternative
medicine (CAM), most allopathic medical schools in the United States
offer instruction in CAM. ... The authors conclude that the form and
content of CAM instruction at osteopathic medical schools is similar

to

Quoted message said:

that offered at allopathic medical schools."
Saxon DW, Tunnicliff G, Brokaw JJ, Raess BU. Status of complementary
and alternative medicine in the osteopathic medical school

curriculum.

Quoted message said:

J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2004 Mar;104(3):121-6. PMID: 15083987

Nursing - 84.8% of US schools of nursing teach CAM.

"Schools of nursing in the United States have responded to the
increasing consumer use of complementary and alternative modalities

and

Quoted message said:

consumer demand for health professionals knowledgeable in

complementary

Quoted message said:

and alternative modalities by incorporating holistic nursing

practices

Quoted message said:

and complementary and alternative modalities into their curricula.

....

Quoted message said:

Surveys were sent to 585 US schools of nursing. ... RESULTS: Almost

60%

Quoted message said:

(n = 74) of the responding schools used the definition of holistic
nursing practice in their curricula and were familiar with the

Holistic

Quoted message said:

Nursing Core Curriculum. The majority (84.8%, n = 106) included
complementary and alternative modalities in their curricula."
Fenton MV, Morris DL. The integration of holistic nursing practices

and

Quoted message said:

complementary and alternative modalities into curricula of schools of
nursing.
Altern Ther Health Med. 2003 Jul-Aug;9(4):62-7. PMID: 12868254

Hence forth, since the science bigots are in the minority I will
require YOU rather than me to justify your Quacky, Bigoted positions

on

Quoted message said:

CAM.

Just thought that you might want to know. 🙂
--
john gohde
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/blog/

Quoted message said:

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Complementary and alternative medicine is mainstream. Scientists who
like to refer to themselves as quackbusters hold a minority viewpoint.
This conclusion is easily supported by 3 separate research studies
which surveyed the 125 medical schools offering a MD degree, the 19
medical schools offering a DO degree, and 585 schools of nuring in the
United States.

Meaningless. These aren't studies on whether or not CAM is valid, these
are opinion surveys measuring interest in CAM. If you surveyed a bunch
of doctors in the middle ages, they would have been big on bloodletting.

anon said:

Quoted message said:

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Complementary and alternative medicine is mainstream. Scientists

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like to refer to themselves as quackbusters hold a minority

viewpoint.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This conclusion is easily supported by 3 separate research studies
which surveyed the 125 medical schools offering a MD degree, the 19
medical schools offering a DO degree, and 585 schools of nuring in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

United States.

Meaningless. These aren't studies on whether or not CAM is valid,

these

Quoted message said:

are opinion surveys measuring interest in CAM. If you surveyed a

bunch

Quoted message said:

of doctors in the middle ages, they would have been big on

bloodletting.

The problem exists only in YOUR small mind. 🙂

You have my condolences.

Cheers ...
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

Say not the Struggle nought Availeth said:

I all in favor of complimentary or alterative medicine being more
accepted.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

It is accepted. Don't you think that it is about time you have figured
out that the science bigots have lost the battle?
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

science always beats non-science.

j.

btw
If it weren't for science we would not be having this conversation.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

Say not the Struggle nought Availeth said:

I all in favor of complimentary or alterative medicine being more
accepted.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

It is accepted. Don't you think that it is about time you have figured
out that the science bigots have lost the battle?
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease process.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite.
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

I will live longer than my parents, and my grand-parents, due to science.

I will live longer than you, especially if you reject the views of your
closest scientific advisor, your doctor.

j.

BTW, the same to you.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease process.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite.
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

Say not the Struggle nought Availeth said:

Be careful what you wish for.

Consider this notification that your viewpoint has been offically
classified obsolete by the scientific community. 🙂

Few knowledgeable persons would argue against the wisdom of
Complementary and Alternative Medicine being mainstream. You can
continue to hide your head in the sand, but the public is definitely
using CAM, big time. According to JAMA: "Reasons cited for the trend
toward the use of alternative therapies include dissatisfaction with
conventional health care that is perceived as ineffectual, too
expensive, or too focused on curing disease rather than maintaining
good health. Alternative therapies are often seen as less authoritarian
and more congruent with patients' values and beliefs about the meaning
of health and illness." JAMA refers to this trend as part of the
"relentless challenge to evolve."

If physicians are to guide their many patients who are using CAM
modalities toward a safe and more integrated approach, they must be
knowledgeable about them.

The extent to which patients disclose their use of alternative
therapies to their physicians is extremely low, thanks to [censored]-heads
like you. 🙂

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease brain process.
If you do not get it, Jack, that is because you are defective. 🙂
You people are responsible for the erosion of the patient-physician
relationship.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite. 🙂
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

Educate yourself by reading the full text of:
Park CM. Diversity, the individual, and proof of efficacy:
complementary and alternative medicine in medical education. Am J
Public Health. 2002;92(10):1568 -1572.
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

"Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...
The extent to which patients disclose their use of alternative
therapies to their physicians is extremely low, thanks to [censored]-heads
like you. 🙂

Broadcast posting to sci.med.nutrition, sci.med, sci.life-extension,
talk.politics.medicine and sci.med.nursing and you come here calling people
names?

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease brain process.
If you do not get it, Jack, that is because you are defective. 🙂
You people are responsible for the erosion of the patient-physician
relationship.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite. 🙂
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

I love this last line. This has what connection to the healing process?

In article <[email hidden]>,

kyernurse said:

"Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The extent to which patients disclose their use of alternative
therapies to their physicians is extremely low, thanks to [censored]-heads
like you. 🙂

Broadcast posting to sci.med.nutrition, sci.med, sci.life-extension,
talk.politics.medicine and sci.med.nursing and you come here calling people
names?

Quoted message said:

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease brain process.
If you do not get it, Jack, that is because you are defective. 🙂
You people are responsible for the erosion of the patient-physician
relationship.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite. 🙂
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

I love this last line. This has what connection to the healing process?

Well, it's the only cure for what ails Gohde. He's a moron who thinks
he's a genius -- and when you already think you know all the answers,
you don't have to ask any questions.

He also has no teeth -- which should give one pause, I think. I
personally would be quite dubious about taking health advice from
someone who's lost all his teeth. Wouldn't you?

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

kyernurse said:

The extent to which patients disclose their use of alternative
therapies to their physicians is extremely low, thanks to [censored]-heads
like you. 🙂

Broadcast posting to sci.med.nutrition, sci.med, sci.life-extension,
talk.politics.medicine and sci.med.nursing and you come here calling

people

Quoted message said:

names?

This point iw worth repeating. 🙂

The scientific community has long ago decided that YOUR minority
viewpoint is irresponsibly endangering the safety of the public at
large.

I shall repeat it again for the benefit of the mentally challenged.

YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the safety of the
public at large.

For proof of the above accertion YOU can try reading the full text of:
Park CM. Diversity, the individual, and proof of efficacy:
complementary and alternative medicine in medical education. Am J
Public Health. 2002;92(10):1568 -1572.

I have already read it. 🙂
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

David Wright said:

when you already think you know all the answers,
you don't have to ask any questions.

Sounds like the position of the science bigots to me. 🙂

I shall repeat it again for the benefit of the mentally challenged.

YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the safety of the
public at large.

For proof of the above accertion YOU can try reading the full text of:
Park CM. Diversity, the individual, and proof of efficacy:
complementary and alternative medicine in medical education. Am J
Public Health. 2002;92(10):1568 -1572.
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/full/92/10/1568

This is a restricted access article, of course. I have full access to
it, don't you? If you send me lots of green stuff in the mail, I might
in a cold day in hell email you the pdf file.

Just to point out just exactly how stupid Mr. Wrong is, this is a brand
new position for me. 🙂

Hence forth, my NEW position will be that the scientific community has
long ago decided that YOUR minority viewpoint is irresponsibly
endangering the safety of the public at large.

Just thought that you might want to know, Mr. Stupid Face. 🙂
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

Doctors are not scientific. That is why they have a "practice"

"Say not the Struggle nought Availeth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I will live longer than my parents, and my grand-parents, due to science.

I will live longer than you, especially if you reject the views of your
closest scientific advisor, your doctor.

j.

BTW, the same to you.

Mr-Natural-Health said:

You are in the minority.
You own the problem.
You are politically incorrect.
You are culturally insensitive.
Your thoughts are the result of a disease process.
Your ilk will be eradicateed by the cultural elite.
You have my condolences.
Now, kindly drop dead. 🙂

David Wright wrote:

Excuse me, but I did NOT do a proper job of trashing this piece of
trash. So, I will do the job right this time around.

Quoted message said:

He also has no teeth

This piece of trash, called a typical science bigot clearly thinks that
people with dentures are second class citizens.

The problem of course is not that this particular piece of [censored] is a
science bigot, or that all nursess on this thread are slime balls just
like Mr. Wrong, it is that there are actually physicians and nurses out
their who think precisely the same way. 🙁

Surprise, surprise, ... surprise: patients don't exist for the benefit
of doctors and nurses. Nurses and doctors exist for the benefit of
people with dentures. 🙂

YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the safety of the
public at large.

Just thought that you might want to know. And, if you have not figured
it out yet, Mr. Wrong. I happen to love my dentures.

Hi,
The strongest reason patients don't reveal thier use of natural
medicine to their doctors is DOCTORS DON'T ASK. Doctors are
in much better position than patients to be aware of what they need to
know and they seldom ask about the use of vitamin, mineral, or other
supplemental use even tho over half of their patients make use of them.
Another contributing reason is that patients feel such disclosure will
alter their doctor's feelings towards them for the worse. While
patients bear the brunt of responsibility for this secondary reason,
the antagonistic attitude of doctors towards supplemental use is also
causitive in this respect as well.
Blame, is a pecular noun. While devoid of mass or energy, it
nevertheless carries sigficant weight, and when tossed about always
lands on the other side of a fence.

Thomas

Quoted message said:

Another contributing reason is that patients feel such disclosure

will

Quoted message said:

alter their doctor's feelings towards them for the worse. ...
the antagonistic attitude of doctors towards supplemental use is also
causitive in this respect as well.

Exactly, ... YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the
safety of the public at large.

You guys try to blame it on everybody, but yourself.

You have my condolences.
--
john gohde
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mr-Natural-Health said:

David Wright wrote:

Excuse me, but I did NOT do a proper job of trashing this piece of
trash. So, I will do the job right this time around.

That'd be a first, and, as usual, you failed to deliver.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He also has no teeth

This piece of trash, called a typical science bigot clearly thinks that
people with dentures are second class citizens.

No, I don't. What I do think is that someone with no teeth is not
necessarily a great source of health information.

Quoted message said:

YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the safety of the
public at large.

I'm not endangering anyone. I'm not a doctor, or a nurse for that
matter.

Quoted message said:

Just thought that you might want to know. And, if you have not figured
it out yet, Mr. Wrong. I happen to love my dentures.

Congratulations. I'm sure your diet of soft foods is highly
gratifying to you.

So, tell me -- if your legions of devoted readers (har har har) follow
your health advice, will they follow you to the land of dentures as
well? I visualize you as being like Calvin (of "Calvin and Hobbes"😉,
proclaiming yourself a super-genius and possibly wearing a self-made
"super genius" badge.

Go ahead, pontificate all you want about "science." Your
understanding is so poor that every time you try to do it, legions of
people appear as if from nowhere to explain where you've gone wrong.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

David Wright wrote:

Go ahead, pontificate all you want about people with dentures. Your
understanding is so poor that every time you try to do it, I get a good
chuckle. 🙂

YOU science bigots are irresponsibly endangering the safety of the
public at large.

And, that also includes [censored]-heads like Mr. Wrong even if they are not
a physician or a nurse.
..
Just thought that you might want to know