Complaining about Jean Delatour

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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It's true that JD has been included in the TdF at the expense of more deserving teams, however:

does anyone consider that the outcry over their inclusion, or Domina's exclusion has made the TdF
even bigger?

<< snip>>

I dunno. _Maybe_ in France, but doubtful anywhere else. If you asked someone who wouldn't ordinarily
watch the Tour if they were going to watch because Jean Dilator affirmative-actioned another team,
what do you they'd say?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

It's true that JD has been included in the TdF at the expense of more deserving teams, however:

does anyone consider that the outcry over their inclusion, or Domina's exclusion has made the
TdF even bigger?

<< snip>>

I dunno. _Maybe_ in France, but doubtful anywhere else. If you asked

someone

Quoted message said:

who wouldn't ordinarily watch the Tour if they were going to watch because Jean Dilator
affirmative-actioned another team, what do you they'd say?

I'm talking about the Controversy itself, not Jean Delatour.

How many other races have controversy like that, months ahead of time? If I were Leblanc, I'd do
something like that every year. It's free pub.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's true that JD has been included in the TdF at the expense of more deserving teams,
however:

does anyone consider that the outcry over their inclusion, or Domina's exclusion has made the
TdF even bigger?

<< snip>>

I dunno. _Maybe_ in France, but doubtful anywhere else. If you asked

someone

Quoted message said:

who wouldn't ordinarily watch the Tour if they were going to watch

because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jean Dilator affirmative-actioned another team, what do you they'd say?

I'm talking about the Controversy itself, not Jean Delatour.

How many other races have controversy like that, months ahead of time? If

I

Quoted message said:

were Leblanc, I'd do something like that every year. It's free pub.

I am, too. How many people do you think are going to watch the race due to the Controversy that
wouldn't have otherwise?

Where are all the Mario Cipollini supporters? I was expecting to see some banner waving, rainbow-striped T-shirt wearing crazies on the roadsides by now.

Time Cop said:

Where are all the mariocipollini.netMarioOpen ↗ Cipollini supporters? I was expecting to see
some banner waving, rainbow-striped T-shirt wearing crazies on the roadsides by now.

let's see, no mario, no need for supporters ergo why spend the effort?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It's true that JD has been included in the TdF at the expense of

more

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> deserving teams, however:
>
>
> does anyone consider that the outcry over their inclusion, or

Domina's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> exclusion has made the TdF even bigger?
>
<< snip>>

I dunno. _Maybe_ in France, but doubtful anywhere else. If you asked

someone

Quoted message said:

who wouldn't ordinarily watch the Tour if they were going to watch

because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jean Dilator affirmative-actioned another team, what do you they'd

say?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm talking about the Controversy itself, not Jean Delatour.

How many other races have controversy like that, months ahead of time?

If

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

were Leblanc, I'd do something like that every year. It's free pub.

I am, too. How many people do you think are going to watch the race due to the Controversy that
wouldn't have otherwise?

Not anyone here. But when it makes all the headlines in Italy for months in advance, that can only
help Le Tour. It gets people talking about it, debating in bars and coffeeshops, etc.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8OMOa.493

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Not anyone here. But when it makes all the headlines in Italy for months

in

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advance, that can only help Le Tour. It gets people talking about it, debating in bars and
coffeeshops, etc.

I think that's beginning to stretch things.

First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of Domina's non
selection outside of France and Italy and to what extent (how many column inches, for example).

Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott of TdF viewership than
an increase.

Third, the team selection/non selection may cause discussions in the months preceding the actual
race, but it only brings attention to the Tour as an institution, not the race itself. Tour sponsors
don't get much recognition when JML reads off the list of teams each spring. They get it during the
month of July.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8OMOa.493

Quoted message said:

Not anyone here. But when it makes all the headlines in Italy for months

in

Quoted message said:

advance, that can only help Le Tour. It gets people talking about it, debating in bars and
coffeeshops, etc.

I think that's beginning to stretch things.

First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of Domina's
non selection outside of France and Italy and to what extent (how many column inches, for
example).

Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott

of

Quoted message said:

TdF viewership than an increase.

Third, the team selection/non selection may cause discussions in the

months

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preceding the actual race, but it only brings attention to the Tour as an institution, not the
race itself. Tour sponsors don't get much recognition when JML reads off the list of teams each
spring. They get it during the month of July.

I disagree - controversy like that is good for any sporting event. If it were damaging, I doubt
the Societe would do it - after all they are a private business enterprise, attempting to
maximize profit.

Carl Sundquist said:

First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of Domina's
non selection outside of France and Italy and to what extent (how many column inches, for
example).

Pretty much every Dutch and Belgian newspaper covered the story...

--
Mathias De Belder

Time Cop said:

Where are all the mariocipollini.netMarioOpen ↗ Cipollini supporters? I was expecting to see
some banner waving, rainbow-striped T-shirt wearing crazies on the roadsides by now.

hmmm.. Ok, I give up.. What race would you be talking about? The Giro is over.

GK

Carl Sundquist said:

Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott of TdF viewership than
an increase.

Not likely given the number of other Italians participating, especially with Petacchi in the form he
is in (and winning without the help of a highly organized leadout team like Cippolini's).

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian

boycott of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

TdF viewership than an increase.

Not likely given the number of other Italians participating, especially with Petacchi in the form
he is in (and winning without the help of a highly organized leadout team like Cippolini's).

But that is independent of the Controversy.

"Mathias De Belder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of Domina's
non selection outside of France and Italy and to what extent (how many column inches, for
example).

Pretty much every Dutch and Belgian newspaper covered the story...

Even the first US newspaper I checked (NY Times) had a bit on it.

query.nytimes.comfullpage.htmlOpen ↗ C8B63

PLUS: CYCLING; Cipollini and Team Denied Entry to Tour The world road race champion, Mario Cipollini
of Italy, will not be invited to the Tour de France. Claudio Santi, the director of the Italian
cyclists' federation, was told of the decision by the race's director, Jean-Marie Leblanc.

Cipollini was hoping Tour officials would change their plans and offer a last-minute invitation to
his Domina Vacanze team, but he was notified that would not be the case.

Many of Cipollini's fellow cyclists, among them the four-time Tour winner Lance Armstrong, and team
officials said Cipollini's team should gain automatic entry into cycling's most prestigious event.

The final four wild cards were awarded to three French teams and one Spanish team.

Published: 06 - 03 - 2003 , Late Edition - Final , Section D , Column 4 , Page 7

The byline wasn't even Sam Abt, just the sports desk (although I suppose that's better than Jayson
Blair). But for a non-sport newspaper, using the NY Times as an example, the Controversy wasn't much
of a controversy.

What kind of coverage did the Union Tribune print?

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian

boycott of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

TdF viewership than an increase.

Not likely given the number of other Italians participating, especially with Petacchi in the
form he is in (and winning without the help of a highly organized leadout team like
Cippolini's).

But that is independent of the Controversy.

Carl, he responded to your statement:

"Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott of TdF viewership than an
increase."

There are what, 38 Italians racing? Petacchi winning sprints, Simoni suing Armstrong for defamation
and going for the GC.

The tifosi won't stop watching just because The Lion Queen isn't there.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Mathias De Belder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of
Domina's non selection outside of France and Italy and to what extent (how many column inches,
for example).

Pretty much every Dutch and Belgian newspaper covered the story...

Even the first US newspaper I checked (NY Times) had a bit on it.

Carl, I'm talking about European fans. You're talking about US ones. They are very differnt animals
- the US fans are hardcore. In Europe it's possible to be a casual cycling fan (because the media
cover it) just like it's possible to be a casual baseball fan here.

You can't be a casual cycling fan here - to get news on cycling you have to seek it. It doesn't show
up on Sportcenter or the Local News except for one 3 week period.

I think that the controversy reminds everyone just how much more important the Tour is than all of
the other gran tours. It may get a lot of fans angry, but for every fan that skips the race this
year in protest, there are probable several other fringe fans that were drawn in. Those fringe fans
had no emotional investment in who was invited, but all of the controversy served to
demonstrate\remind them just how important the Tour is. In addition, I doubt that very many
hardcore fans would "boycott" the race. It just means they will have a different attitude while
they watch it.

(That is just) my opinion, and I have nothing really to back it up except witnessing human behavior
for a few decades.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Simoni suing Armstrong for defamation and going for the GC.

Chang,

Deez

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Mathias De Belder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

> First, it would be interesting to see which non-sport publications carried the news of
> Domina's non selection outside of France and

Italy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and to what extent (how many column inches, for example).

Pretty much every Dutch and Belgian newspaper covered the story...

Even the first US newspaper I checked (NY Times) had a bit on it.

Carl, I'm talking about European fans. You're talking about US ones. They are very differnt
animals - the US fans are hardcore. In Europe it's possible to be a casual cycling fan (because
the media cover it) just like it's possible to be a casual baseball fan here.

You can't be a casual cycling fan here - to get news on cycling you have

to

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seek it. It doesn't show up on Sportcenter or the Local News except for

one

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3 week period.

I know that we're talking about European fans. But give me a parallel in the US where the omission
of a player or team would increase viewership/revenues. If the Controversy doesn't increase revenue,
then what good is it?

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott of TdF viewership
> than an increase.

Not likely given the number of other Italians participating, especially with Petacchi in the
form he is in (and winning without the help of a highly organized leadout team like
Cippolini's).

But that is independent of the Controversy.

Carl, he responded to your statement:

"Second, Domina's non selection is more likely to cause an Italian boycott of TdF viewership than
an increase."

There are what, 38 Italians racing? Petacchi winning sprints, Simoni suing Armstrong for
defamation and going for the GC.

The tifosi won't stop watching just because The Lion Queen isn't there.

You said, "does anyone consider that the outcry over their inclusion, or Domina's exclusion has made
the TdF even bigger?"

"I think Leblanc may not be as stupid as he seems. It's really a win-win for him - he gains from
both the inclusion of another French team and also from the passion from the ensuing controversy."

I replied, " If you asked someone who wouldn't ordinarily watch the Tour if they were going to watch
because Jean Dilator affirmative-actioned another team, what do you they'd say?"

I didn't say the tifosi would stop watching. As you say, tifosi watching the Tour because they love
the sport, or the other Italian teams, or because of Petacchi would be watching whether Cipo was
there or not. I said someone who wouldn't ordinarily watch the Tour.

Publicity - The act, process, or occupation of disseminating information to _gain_ public interest.

I think you have Simeoni (suing) confused with Simoni.