Compair GRR Vs. P-38

A partial answer and (of course one man's opinion)

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have some question as to how these bents compair .
1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?

Not likely. As a general rule, LWBs are sluggish off the
starting blocks. I find the P-38 to be quite quick in
acceleration. On my P-38 last Saturday, I overheard two DFs
behind me at a light commenting about how quick recumbents
were at acceleration. Since their only frame of reference
was me on my P-38, I think they were impressed with the
acceleration of my P-38 (Especially since this P-38 was
being piloted by a FOF). I can easily out accelerate most
DFs on my Saturday in-town ride that often amounts to
sprints between lights.

Quoted message said:

2. Will a Grr climb as fast?

Depends on the engine and gearing. I climb faster on my P-38
than on any other bike especially the RANS Stratus that I
used to have. Most people in my Saturday ride group (both DF
and Bent) climb faster than I do.

Quoted message said:

3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?

This is IMO what the GRR and other LWBs were made to do
best.

Quoted message said:

4. Will a Grr handle as fast?

What does 'handle' mean to you? It is like comparing a
tractor trailer and a Mini Cooper. Both will do freeway
speeds. Don't try any fast cornering with the tractor
trailer. Same holds true with the GRR.

Quoted message said:

5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
how much

Both are advertised at 27 lbs. This is a valid value
for the P-38.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager
clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

I owned a P-38 XT then replaced it with a GRR, then a
Ti Rush, which I still own. I recently also bought a
Volae team.

It did not own the P-38 and GRRs at the same time so my
observations are skewed by memory and time.

The P-38 climbed easier and faster. It probably was a bit
faster on the flats but I am not sure how much, or whether
very much.

My current 25 pound Volae Team is faster on the flats than
the GRR or P-38 were ... with the same effort ... and it
climbs as fast or faster with less effort than the P-38 did.

YMMV.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "roy dale"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have some question as to how these bents compair .
1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
how much

I've owned a P-38 and a Tour Easy. Beyond what Cletus said, the three
most important things to remember about recumbent performance are:

1. It's the motor.
2. It's the motor.
3. It's the motor.

Jeff

"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<dBq3c.179526$hR.3318431@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

My current 25 pound Volae Team is faster on the flats
than the GRR or P-38 were ... with the same effort ...
and it climbs as fast or faster with less effort than the
P-38 did.

YMMV.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

Hmmm... another bike to add to the collection.

Bob- where do you "climb" in Gainesville? ;-)

Jeff

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've owned a P-38 and a Tour Easy. Beyond what Cletus
said, the three most important things to remember about
recumbent performance are:

1. It's the motor.
2. It's the motor.
3. It's the motor.

Doesn't "Depends on the engine" cover your three most
important points?

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager
clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

I too have owned and ridden these bikes. P-38, TE GRR / Polished Alum and
GRR Ti.
In answer to your questions: (My opinion now...)

Quoted message said:

1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?

No

Quoted message said:

2. Will a Grr climb as fast?

No

Quoted message said:

3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?

Yes

Quoted message said:

4. Will a Grr handle as fast?

No

Quoted message said:

5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
how much

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if you
include a fairing on the Easy Racer bikes)

"roy dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have some question as to how these bents compair .
1. will the GRR respond in sprints as fast as p-38?
2. Will a Grr climb as fast?
3. Will a Grr cruise on the Flats better ?
4. Will a Grr handle as fast?
5. What are the weight differences ? who is lighter and
how much

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<bix3c.93952$PR3.1654958@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if you
include a fairing on the Easy Racer bikes)

What damn difference does this minuscule weight difference
matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an extra 20
pounds that I didn't used to have a few years ago. Every
American that I have ever been able to observe is grossly
overweight by at least 20 pounds. And the rest of the world
is not far behind either. To talk about a few pounds
difference in the weight of a recumbent is insane in view of
the fact that we are all overweight by 20 pounds. But there
are any number of idiots out there in recumbentland who will
pay thousands of dollars extra in order to shave off a few
pounds on their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more
money than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By
all means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<bix3c.93952$PR3.1654958@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
you include a

fairing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the Easy Racer bikes)

What damn difference does this minuscule weight difference
matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an extra 20
pounds that I didn't used to have a few years ago. Every
American that I have ever been able to observe is grossly
overweight by at least 20 pounds. And the rest of the
world is not far behind either. To talk about a few pounds
difference in the weight of a recumbent is insane in view
of the fact that we are all overweight by 20 pounds. But
there are any number of idiots out there in recumbentland
who will pay thousands of dollars extra in order to shave
off a few pounds on their bike. How ridiculous! But if you
have more money than brains then I suppose that is what
one does. By all means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Hi Ed,

(Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
that is correct....I never have been very good at convention
or protocols.)

You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
that, many people are willing to pay plenty.

Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can at
least have some control over the weight of their bike.

Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
get rid of 6 more grams.

Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
know how we all enjoy that. :}

Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

jd

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.1ab843028c258008989ad3
@News.Individual.NET:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't "Depends on the engine" cover your three most
important points?

What on earth difference would an engine cover ma...

Uh, never mind

:-)

(bitshift blah blah)

PS...

"IS" ...is almost here....

I also need new computer glasses...

jd

"Jack Davis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<bix3c.93952$PR3.1654958@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
you include a

fairing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the Easy Racer bikes)

What damn difference does this minuscule weight
difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Hi Ed,

(Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
that is correct....I never have been very good at
convention or protocols.)

You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
that, many people are willing to

pay

Quoted message said:

plenty.

Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
at least have

some

Quoted message said:

control over the weight of their bike.

Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
get rid of 6

more

Quoted message said:

grams.

Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
know how we

all

Quoted message said:

enjoy that. :}

Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

jd

PS...

"IS" ...is almost here....

I also need new computer glasses...

jd

"Jack Davis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<bix3c.93952$PR3.1654958@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
you include a

fairing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the Easy Racer bikes)

What damn difference does this minuscule weight
difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Hi Ed,

(Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
that is correct....I never have been very good at
convention or protocols.)

You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
that, many people are willing to

pay

Quoted message said:

plenty.

Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
at least have

some

Quoted message said:

control over the weight of their bike.

Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
get rid of 6

more

Quoted message said:

grams.

Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
know how we

all

Quoted message said:

enjoy that. :}

Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

jd

"Jack Davis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<bix3c.93952$PR3.1654958@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

P-38 is MUCH lighter by at least 3+ lbs? (Depending if
you include a

fairing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the Easy Racer bikes)

What damn difference does this minuscule weight
difference matter? I am now carrying around in my gut an
extra 20 pounds that I didn't used to have a few years
ago. Every American that I have ever been able to
observe is grossly overweight by at least 20 pounds. And
the rest of the world is not far behind either. To talk
about a few pounds difference in the weight of a
recumbent is insane in view of the fact that we are all
overweight by 20 pounds. But there are any number of
idiots out there in recumbentland who will pay thousands
of dollars extra in order to shave off a few pounds on
their bike. How ridiculous! But if you have more money
than brains then I suppose that is what one does. By all
means, 3 pounds is 3 pounds!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Hi Ed,

(Please note that I did put this under your post....I hope
that is correct....I never have been very good at
convention or protocols.)

Yes, you are posting correctly. It is actually easier to do
things the right way than the wrong way. But you know how
some folks are - just plain contrary and mean clear
through. 😉

Quoted message said:

You know it's not about the weight....it's about bragging
rights....as in, "My bikes lighter than your bike". For
that, many people are willing to pay plenty.

No, I am a practical realist and don't give a hoot about
"bragging rights". The only folks who should be on super
light weight bikes are those folks who do not have one
ounce of fat on them. The last time I looked things were
going in just the opposite direction. We Americans are
truly becoming the fattest people on the face of the earth.
We are all starting to look like those maharajahs in India
used to look like when I was kid pouring over illustrated
geography books.

Quoted message said:

Or, if they can't control their own weight maybe they can
at least have some control over the weight of their bike.

I can see that no one has thought through any of this more
than you Jack. So then, you must weigh around 145 lbs. I
would guess. That is what I use to weight before I got old
and slightly fat.

Quoted message said:

Or, maybe they really could best Lance if they could just
get rid of 6 more grams.

Yes, and I do not believe in paying top prices for
component bike parts either just in order to shave off a
few grams. It is absurdity piled on top of absurdity. We
humans are really quite ridiculous if only we could step
back a bit and see ourselves from the outside (like maybe
through the eyes of a Martian).

Quoted message said:

Or, maybe they know it will get a rise out of you, and you
know how we all enjoy that. :}

Now you are getting to the quick of it. If I post and I do
not get a rise out of someone, then I have failed. Of
course, if the "riser" is sufficiently incensed about my
post and says so in no uncertain words, then that gets a
rise out of me - and so we are off to the races yet once
again for more fun and games. Ah, life is good!

Quoted message said:

Get those tires pumped up....Spring in almost here...

The Canadian honkers are back on the local lake and that is
always a very good sign although I swear I think those geese
can sometimes make mistakes too just like the rest of us.
Today for instance the temperature has fallen back into the
20's which causes my disposition to get even worse than it
already is.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Jack Davis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

PS...

"IS" ...is almost here....

I also need new computer glasses...

jd

Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and when
they do matter, it is like an unintended joke. I actually
read your message and did not even get the "in" for "is".
That just goes to show how all important context is.

It is the same with most typos too. I never nit pick anyone
on those kind of things. We all make those kind of mistakes
(except Mr. Sherman, which leads me to believe that there is
something nonhuman about him - either that or he proof reads
like a maniac). I only get excited when someone posts and it
is unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far between.

The one thing you could have done so as not to overburden
the newsgroup would be not to include the entire message yet
once again, just the passage in question. But like I said,
no correction was really necessary.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

(Edward Dolan) said:

Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.

My favorite predated the current version of the Internet,
,when on a military messaging system someone mis-typed the
then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as [censored]. Did it
about half the time, so I was guessing it had to do with a
typing thing (like me and hte for the). Sure made for an
amusing post...

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Edward Dolan said:

... I only get excited when someone posts and it is
unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far
between....

You should hope that Gene Daniels does not buy a recumbent
then, although there is something strangely fascinating
about his writing style. <groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗
3Fq%3Dphoton%2Bblinky%2Bscores%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D41b0dda1-
.0403110908.e92fdfe%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D1>.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Curtis L. Russell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 11 Mar 2004 09:10:18 -0800, [email hidden] (Edward

Dolan) said:

Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.

My favorite predated the current version of the Internet,
,when on a military messaging system someone mis-typed the
then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as [censored]. Did it
about half the time, so I was guessing it had to do with a
typing thing (like me and hte for the). Sure made for an
amusing post...

Curtis, there are certain simple words which I can never get
right the first time around - and I do mean never! The is
one of them. It always comes out teh or hte (but NEVER the),
and for comes out fro and always comes out alwasy - and so
it goes. I spend five minutes typing out my thoughts and
then I spend 10 minutes getting all the typos out. It is
very frustrating, but I work at it as it is very
discourteous not to get it right for the sake of your
readers. But every now and then one slips by me. Thank God I
do know how to spell at least.

My biggest regret in life at this point is that I never
took typing lessons in high school when I had the chance.
I always figured I would have secretaries to do my typing
for me. How little did I know then! I have wasted
literally years of my life correcting all my typos. My
brain simply will not learn how to type certain words with
out reversing the same old letters over and over again. It
would be a supreme challenge for any teacher to instruct
me on how to type.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 11 Mar 2004 09:10:18 -0800, [email hidden] (Edward

Dolan) said:

Jack, those little slip ups almost never matter. If and
when they do matter, it is like an unintended joke.

My favorite predated the current version of the
Internet, ,when on a military messaging system someone
mis-typed the then spelling for Tibet, Hsitsang as
[censored]. Did it about half the time, so I was guessing
it had to do with a typing thing (like me and hte for
the). Sure made for an amusing post...

Curtis, there are certain simple words which I can never
get right the first time around - and I do mean never! The
is one of them. It always comes out teh or hte (but NEVER
the), and for comes out fro and always comes out alwasy -
and so it goes. I spend five minutes typing out my
thoughts and then I spend 10 minutes getting all the typos
out. It is very frustrating, but I work at it as it is
very discourteous not to get it right for the sake of your
readers. But every now and then one slips by me. Thank God
I do know how to spell at least.

My biggest regret in life at this point is that I never
took typing lessons in high school when I had the chance.
I always figured I would have secretaries to do my typing
for me. How little did I know then! I have wasted
literally years of my life correcting all my typos. My
brain simply will not learn how to type certain words with
out reversing the same old letters over and over again. It
would be a supreme challenge for any teacher to instruct
me on how to type.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I got your there Ed......I took typing! It was in the '50s
and I needed a credit and the class was full of girls and
how hard could it be.... Turns-out it was very difficult but
it was also the most valuable class I took in HS. Now typing
is of course essential for using these computer things. It
should be required in all schools for all kids......maybe it
is ....it's been a long time since I was in a school. How's
this for being OT?! jd

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

... I only get excited when someone posts and it is
unintelligible. We do have a few of those types here on
ARBR but thankfully their posts are few and far
between....

You should hope that Gene Daniels does not buy a recumbent
then, although there is something strangely fascinating
about his writing style.

Quoted message said:

<groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗
q%3Dphoton%2Bblinky%2Bscores%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D41b0dd-
a1.0403110908.e92fdfe%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D1>.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Tom, I will not read posts like those. The poster has
obviously taken no pains at all with his post and it shows
nothing but contempt for the reader. It is not a style, it
is a total lack of style.

I often debate with myself how much I should polish my
posts. You fast reach a point of diminishing returns. If I
were writing for publication I would of course take infinite
pains to get the flow just right.

I do note that your posts are quite well written. Have you
worked at this I wonder or does it just come naturally? I
wrote better 40 years ago then I do now because I have grown
rusty from lack of use. With me it was all reading and no
writing. Eventually, if you want to write well, you actually
have to do it.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

Tom, I will not read posts like those. The poster has
obviously taken no pains at all with his post and it shows
nothing but contempt for the reader. It is not a style, it
is a total lack of style.

Ed,

There are many Internet postings that are obviously by
people who have no skill at writing and lack understanding
of the basic rules of grammar and punctuation, but the post
by G. Daniels I referenced is different. It is like
conversing with a schizophrenic person whose sense of
reality differs from other peoples.

Quoted message said:

I often debate with myself how much I should polish my
posts. You fast reach a point of diminishing returns. If I
were writing for publication I would of course take
infinite pains to get the flow just right.

I do note that your posts are quite well written. Have you
worked at this I wonder or does it just come naturally?...

In the consulting engineering business, what the clients are
paying for is a "deliverable" - a written document that
contains not only data but also recommendations. It is vital
for these documents to be intelligible to the client (or
they will find another consulting firm). Of similar
importance is that the writing be definitive enough in its
meaning so that a lawyer would have a hard time convincing a
judge or jury that the interpretation is something other
than what engineer was intending to say.

Sometimes I feel that it is unfair for me to argue in a
written forum with those who do not write professionally for
a living. 😉

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)