Comments Please; long.

Alan,

You did a fine revision. I hope they pay some attention to
what you had to say!

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight.
Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.4. Cut the carbs to respond to my
email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips,
recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
geocities.comjenny the beanOpen ↗

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit alt-support-alt-support-Open ↗
diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan said:

G'day All

X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes

I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
quarterly magazine.

I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
press" :-)

If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
it's a load of garbage now :-)

It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down
from 1200+ to about 520.

Thanks again for the constructive advice.

Letter:

To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
recommended by your dieticians.

I see their advice like this:
1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular
health;
2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
glucose levels;
3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
disease;
4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
appears to be in line with the recommendations of
overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
Association (ADA).

Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at

diabetesaustralia.com.auheOpen ↗
althpros/foodnut/ healthy.htm

Quoted message said:

or the ADA web-site at diabetes.orgnutrition andOpen ↗
recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
seems to be investigating the alternative approaches.
I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet
for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable
minimal medication.

To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a
diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
nutrition for good health but does not cause high
blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
would minimise the need for medication, particularly
for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and
health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've
done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics
write to give examples, such as K ...... in the Autumn
issue, they are dismissed and told that their
improvement must be because of exercise, or weight
loss, or some other factor.

The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight.
Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I
ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I
consistently found that something led to high blood
glucose, I changed
it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity,
sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to
minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating
significantly less carbohydrates, a little more
protein and a little more "good" oils. And I did a
little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I also
gradually reduced the high level of initial testing
as results became predictable.

After attaining a degree of control over my blood
glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
"spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
continued long after I reached my target weight. And
my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians
continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption?
What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

A great letter Alan,

I would be most happy to send a letter of support, IF they
publish it. In effect, I'd just be saying that I also have
followed a similar plan, with equally good results. Send me
an email if you know, before I do, that the letter has been
taken seriously.

I could never have written such a great epistle, and
want you to know I greatly admire your work. You have
the knack of stating the truth of that matter with
simplicity and tact.

Well done!

Annette

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan said:

G'day All

X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes

I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
quarterly magazine.

I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
press" :-)

If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the point
or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
it's a load of garbage now :-)

It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down
from 1200+ to about 520.

Thanks again for the constructive advice.

Letter:

To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
recommended by your dieticians.

I see their advice like this:
1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular
health;
2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood
glucose levels;
3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
disease;
4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
appears to be in line with the recommendations of
overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
Association (ADA).

Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at

diabetesaustralia.com.auheOpen ↗
althpros/foodnut/healthy.htm

Quoted message said:

or the ADA web-site at diabetes.orgnutrition andOpen ↗
recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
seems to be investigating the alternative approaches.
I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet
for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable
minimal medication.

To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a
diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
nutrition for good health but does not cause high
blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
would minimise the need for medication, particularly
for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and
health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've
done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics
write to give examples, such as K ...... in the Autumn
issue, they are dismissed and told that their
improvement must be because of exercise, or weight
loss, or some other factor.

The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight.
Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I
ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I
consistently found that something led to high blood
glucose, I changed
it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity,
sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to
minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating
significantly less carbohydrates, a little more
protein and a little more "good" oils. And I did a
little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I also
gradually reduced the high level of initial testing
as results became predictable.

After attaining a degree of control over my blood
glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
"spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
continued long after I reached my target weight. And
my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians
continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption?
What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Alan <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
it's a load of garbage now :-)

The longer I experiment, the more right I think you are. I
hope they publish your letter.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:41:32 +1000, "Annette" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A great letter Alan,

I would be most happy to send a letter of support, IF they
publish it. In effect, I'd just be saying that I also have
followed a similar plan, with equally good results. Send me
an email if you know, before I do, that the letter has been
taken seriously.

I could never have written such a great epistle, and want
you to know I greatly admire your work. You have the
knack of stating the truth of that matter with simplicity
and tact.

Well done!

Annette

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan said:

G'day All

X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes

I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
quarterly magazine.

I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the arena;
"we who are about to die salute you". I'm not an expert,
so I know I'm asking to be drawn and quartered here, but
I'd respect informed, civil criticism before I "go to
press" :-)

If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the
point or modify the letter as long as things stay civil.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
both here and by email. I've included a copy of the final
epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to tell me
it's a load of garbage now :-)

It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words down
from 1200+ to about 520.

Thanks again for the constructive advice.

Letter:

To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the
NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
recommended by your dieticians.

I see their advice like this:
1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular
health;
2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high
blood glucose levels;
3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications
such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart
disease;
4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
appears to be in line with the recommendations of
overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
Association (ADA).

Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at

diabetesaustralia.com.auhOpen ↗
ealthpros/foodnut/healthy.htm

Quoted message said:

or the ADA web-site at diabetes.orgnutrition andOpen ↗
recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one
seems to be investigating the alternative approaches.
I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better
diet for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable
minimal medication.

To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for
a diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
nutrition for good health but does not cause high
blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
would minimise the need for medication, particularly
for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and
health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've
done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics
write to give examples, such as K ...... in the
Autumn issue, they are dismissed and told that their
improvement must be because of exercise, or weight
loss, or some other factor.

The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
started with a standard, sensible diet to lose
weight. Then, as I followed that diet, I tested
everything I ate one hour and two hours after I ate
it. If I consistently found that something led to
high blood glucose, I changed
it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the
quantity, sometimes the timing, but always the aim
was to minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was
eating significantly less carbohydrates, a little
more protein and a little more "good" oils. And I
did a little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I
also gradually reduced the high level of initial
testing as results became predictable.

After attaining a degree of control over my blood
glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure
there are no missing nutritional requirements and to
further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my
HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
"spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
continued long after I reached my target weight. And
my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians
continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption?
What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs
to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Postscript

Hi Annette, and all who helped.

I must have been too late for publication, the latest issue
just arrived. I've never received a response.

I doubt that they ever will publish. We aren't on the same
wavelength. Read this reply to the final letter on page 13
(for those who didn't know, Conquest is the official
magazine of Diabetes Australia):

The letter:

" I have type 2 diabetes and try to eat a sensible diet but
on reading through the "Nestle Diet Delights" insert in the
Spring 2003 Conquest I was alarmed to see that most of the
recipes were high in sugar and carbohydrates. Can you tell
me why the hearty sweet potato salad recipe in the booklet,
with 62 gm carbohydrate and 26 gm sugar, is suitable for
people with diabetes?"

The reply:

"As a rough guide the average Australian adult should aim to
eat 45-60 grams of carbohydrate at main meals and 0-30 grams
for snacks. This amounts to 135-270 grams of carbohydrate a
day. The amount of total sugar in a recipe does not give you
any indication of how that food will affect your blood
glucose levels. <snip> The most useful tool for determining
the effect of a carbohydrate food on an individual's blood
glucose level is the glycemic index." Oh - duh! So what is
the GI of sugar?

So it comes as no surprise that the official "Eat Smart
Recipe" featured on the inside back cover is: Home Made
Muesli Bar: main ingredients rolled oats, brown sugar,
flour, sultanas, oatbran and milk. Nutrition Facts: 1 serve
(about the size of a small cookie) Energy 498 kj Carbs 20 gm
Fat 3 gm incl 0.5 gm sat. Fibre 1.3 gm GI = medium.

I wonder what they would classify as high GI?

Frustrated and fuming, Alan
--

Alan said:

I doubt that they ever will publish. We aren't on the same
wavelength. Read this reply to the final letter on page 13
(for those who didn't know, Conquest is the official
magazine of Diabetes Australia):

Just a clarification - that letter I quoted wasn't from me;
I just quoted it as an example of the thinking of their
dieticians.

Cheers, Alan
--

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Annette said:

A great letter Alan,

I would be most happy to send a letter of support, IF
they publish it.

In

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effect, I'd just be saying that I also have followed a
similar plan, with equally good results. Send me an email
if you know, before I do, that the letter has been taken
seriously.

I could never have written such a great epistle, and want
you to know I greatly admire your work. You have the
knack of stating the truth of that matter with simplicity
and tact.

Well done!

Annette

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:03:56 +1000, Alan
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>G'day All
>
>X-posted to misc.health.diabetes, alt.support.diabetes
>
>I would appreciate comments on the draft letter below.
>The letter is intended for my local Diabetes Australia
>quarterly magazine.
>
>I feel a little like Spartacus heading off to the
>arena; "we who are about to die salute you". I'm not
>an expert, so I know I'm asking to

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>drawn and quartered here, but I'd respect informed,
>civil criticism before I "go to press" :-)
>
>If I'm wrong or uninformed, I'm happy to debate the
>point or modify

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>letter as long as things stay civil.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice on my draft letter,
both here and by email. I've included a copy of the
final epistle below. I sent it today, so too late to
tell me it's a load of garbage now :-)

It will be interesting to see if they publish, I may be
too late for this quarter's edition. I cut the words
down from 1200+ to about 520.

Thanks again for the constructive advice.

Letter:

To The Editor I am eternally grateful for the work the
pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get
the NDSS and the support system that we now have. The
organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a
basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice
recommended by your dieticians.

I see their advice like this:
1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate
consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and
vascular health;
2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high
blood glucose levels;
3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic
complications such as retinopathy, neuropathy,
nephropathy and heart disease;
4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high
complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or
insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice
appears to be in line with the recommendations of
overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes
Association (ADA).

Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site
at

diabetesaustralia.com.auhOpen ↗
ealthpros/foodnut

/healthy.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or the ADA web-site at diabetes.orgnutrition andOpen ↗
recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp .

My difficulty in understanding this is because no-
one seems to be investigating the alternative
approaches. I don't mean herbs and supplements,
just a better diet for diabetics, together with
exercise, to enable minimal medication.

To me, the most obvious alternative is to search
for a diet for the diabetic which provides adequate
nutrition for good health but does not cause high
blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it
would minimise the need for medication,
particularly for type 2, with side benefits for
overall health and health costs. I can attest that
it is possible; I've done it, as have many others.
However, when diabetics write to give examples,
such as K ...... in the Autumn issue, they are
dismissed and told that their improvement must be
because of exercise, or weight loss, or some other
factor.

The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I
started with a
standard, sensible diet to lose weight. Then, as I
followed that diet,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tested everything I ate one hour and two hours after I
ate it. If I consistently found that something led to
high blood glucose, I changed
it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the
quantity, sometimes

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

timing, but always the aim was to minimise "spikes".
Gradually I found

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was eating significantly less carbohydrates, a little
more protein and

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

little more "good" oils. And I did a little "lazy
man's" exercise along the way. I also gradually reduced
the high level of initial testing as results became
predictable.

After attaining a degree of control over my blood
glucose, I now
progressively review my diet to ensure there are no
missing nutritional
requirements and to further improve lipids etc. At
diagnosis in 2002

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes
medications. It's a long time since I've seen a
"spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements
continued long after I reached my target weight. And
my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on
are also in good

shape.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do your dieticians continue to promote high
carbohydrate consumption? What is it I'm missing,
apart from complications?

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Postscript

Hi Annette, and all who helped.

I must have been too late for publication, the latest
issue just arrived. I've never received a response.

I doubt that they ever will publish. We aren't on the same
wavelength. Read this reply to the final letter on page 13
(for those who didn't know, Conquest is the official
magazine of Diabetes Australia):

The letter:

" I have type 2 diabetes and try to eat a sensible diet
but on reading through the "Nestle Diet Delights" insert
in the Spring 2003 Conquest I was alarmed to see that most
of the recipes were high in sugar and carbohydrates. Can
you tell me why the hearty sweet potato salad recipe in
the booklet, with 62 gm carbohydrate and 26 gm sugar, is
suitable for people with diabetes?"

The reply:

"As a rough guide the average Australian adult should aim
to eat 45-60 grams of carbohydrate at main meals and 0-30
grams for snacks. This amounts to 135-270 grams of
carbohydrate a day. The amount of total sugar in a recipe
does not give you any indication of how that food will
affect your blood glucose levels. <snip> The most useful
tool for determining the effect of a carbohydrate food on
an individual's blood glucose level is the glycemic
index." Oh - duh! So what is the GI of sugar?

So it comes as no surprise that the official "Eat
Smart Recipe" featured on the inside back cover is:
Home Made Muesli Bar: main ingredients rolled oats,
brown sugar, flour, sultanas, oatbran and milk.
Nutrition Facts: 1 serve (about the size of a small
cookie) Energy 498 kj Carbs 20 gm Fat 3 gm incl 0.5 gm
sat. Fibre 1.3 gm GI = medium.

I wonder what they would classify as high GI?

Frustrated and fuming, Alan
--

Alan,

In one edition of their magazine, a few years ago, I read a
comment that 'Australian sugar was not as bad as normal
sugar'. Also, at one stage I attended a 'seminar' for
beginners where the main hall was encircled with not only
drug and testing equipment company stands, but stands of
various sweet carby snacks, professing themselves to be
'healthy', but ones that almost made my bg go up just
looking at them!

And yet, a few years ago I attended another seminar
organised by Diabetes Victoria, where the guest speaker was
a Rocco DiVincenzo, a most vocal and expressive proponent of
the new diet which we know about here - he called it the
"inverted pyramid diet", where amongst other issues he
stated that eating carbs of any sort in any but the most
minor amounts as not a very good idea. It was fireworks!

Henry Australia