colnago master ti

I was wondering if the Bititan had the same breakage problems for frames sold in Europe than they did here in the United States. I only hear riders from the U.S. talk about it but no Euros....

peter m said:

Does anyone has any experience with the twin tube colnago master ti not the colnago bititan. I have been an option on buying one

I have experience with the 1996/7 Master Ti. What would you like to know, exactly ? 🙂

peter m said:

Does anyone has any experience with the twin tube colnago master ti not the colnago bititan. I have been an option on buying one

I am not aware that Colnago produced a twin-tubed Master ti. From what I know Colanago's twin-tubed (downtube) ti frame was the bi-titan.

FWIW I think Colnago doesn't make noteworthy ti frames. The problem it seems lies with the integrity of the welds. Colnagos aren't cheap. If you want ti frame I suggest you go with the specialists - Merlin, Litespeed, Seven and alike. Not cheap either but same price range as a Colnago.

hd reynolds said:

I am not aware that Colnago produced a twin-tubed Master ti. From what I know Colanago's twin-tubed (downtube) ti frame was the bi-titan.

FWIW I think Colnago doesn't make noteworthy ti frames. The problem it seems lies with the integrity of the welds. Colnagos aren't cheap. If you want ti frame I suggest you go with the specialists - Merlin, Litespeed, Seven and alike. Not cheap either but same price range as a Colnago.

From 1993-1995 , Colnago produced the Bi-Titan(double down tube, Columbus Steel fork , custom drawn 6/4 Ti. 🙂 ).

From 1996-97 , Colnago produced the Master Ti.(double down tube, Columbus Steek fork, Custom Drawn 6/4 Ti. , AND a diamond profile Top-tube + seat-tube ovalized at the BB, chain stays are fairly beefy). This diamond top tube was then carried over to the "Oval Ti." of 1999+ ...... I think till 2001/2. In 1998, Colnago ONLY produced the "Mono Ti." for there Ti. bike....... simple traditional tubing, I believe 3/2.5 Ti. At this time, Colnago was regrouping there line a bit..... since Litespeed/Merlin was really giving Colnago a run for there money $$.

The Master Ti. , by 1996/7 ended the 5, or so stint of producing the double down tube ......... mainly because of: too costly of an operation of doing such welds on a Ti. frame- too time intensive Its not that its a junk frame...... far from it.

Look at Colnago for 2006 , NO Steel frame 😕 Materials getting too costly 😕 Whats up with that !!! I read a interview with a represenitive from I.F. talking about welding Ti. + Steel frames. He said, Ti. is way hard to prep for(cut tubes accordingly, Argon chamber, etc.) , however to art of welding a Steel frame is HARDER then Ti. IF you can weld Steel well , its just a matter of time you'll be welding Ti.

BTW, there is a 1995 Bi-Titan on Ebay right now..... black/yellow.

I've got just over 15K miles on my Master Ti. I road it consistantly 1997-2001 ....... but dont ride it much any more, maybe 200 miles/yr. The only thing that I've really had to do to it, is every 6-7K miles, the Campy BB shell starts creaking , I then have to remove the BB , re-tape , re-install ........... then I'm good to go again for a while 😉 I have to say , this frame is the most comfortable road frame I've ever ridden , yet out of the saddle..... the BB is very stiff. I believe they retailed for about $2300 frame/fork.

".....BTW, there is a 1995 Bi-Titan on Ebay right now..... black/yellow...."

I have seen this and emailed around to a few bike shops and looked extensively on the web for reviews...the word on the street is to avoid this frame, it has severe breakage problems. Not all of them but a significant amount to make it risky to buy a frame like this. Lightweight and heavewieght riders all had problems so its not a matter of how hard you race it or how much you weigh. The seller told me that he has sold many of these in Europe and that none of them have broken but I was told(by bike shops and Colnago lovers) the Euro frames had the same problems as well. So maybe he is just saying that to try to offload the frame. Not worth the risk i think, consideing you can't sue anyone or get a warranty, in case you are flying down a hill at 40 mph and the welds break. Nice frame but too risky.

like the others have said before, better to go with a reliable Ti maker...

The year is 2006 .........

Currently, the only two frames that I'd want to buy in the coming years are:

1. Colnago Master X-light/Master Olympic(steel frame) 1996-7(internal brake routing)-2003. I'd have to find one on Ebay..... since Colnago is no longer making this frame. The likelyhood of there being a NOS one for sale is almost going to be impossible for me to find, in a 57cm 😕 😉

2. a custom Seven Ti. frame = $2500 😉

Thats about all folks ! Both would have Campy Record 9speed on them.

As a consumer in the year 2006 going for a great riding Ti. frameset.... and willing to plunk down the $$$ , I'd say Seven ......... maybe I.F, MOOTS , ..... it all depends upon how much your willing to spend, and what kind of details your looking for in a frame ! 🙂

Adam-from-SLO said:

....this frame is the most comfortable road frame I've ever ridden , yet out of the saddle..... the BB is very stiff.

Makes me wonder why you don't ride it more than 200 mi/year? I'm sure you have newer, lighter, flashier things (maybe lots of carbon). But the old steed sounds like a great ride. This past year I rehabilitated my 20+ year old Trek 531 steel frame bike with a modern drivetrain to use as a commuter, and I must say that I am loving riding it, perhaps more than may newer aluminum or carbon framed bikes (despite its weight).

John M said:

Makes me wonder why you don't ride it more than 200 mi/year? I'm sure you have newer, lighter, flashier things (maybe lots of carbon). But the old steed sounds like a great ride. This past year I rehabilitated my 20+ year old Trek 531 steel frame bike with a modern drivetrain to use as a commuter, and I must say that I am loving riding it, perhaps more than may newer aluminum or carbon framed bikes (despite its weight).

I probably ride it 200-500 per year, since early 2002. The frame fits me fairly well(its a little small... as Colnago's have a shorter top-tube length then most frames out there- it favors people with a 40% upper torso/ 60% lower lower torso) , I have a 115mm stem on there...... which works. Its not a bad fit, probably 93% there, just not 100%. Not to mention its a classic 😉 If / when I do go sell it, the buyer will be able to tell I've taken good care of it.

Since late 2001 , I've primarily been riding a LOOK Carbon Monocoque frameset that I picked up fairly inexpensively in 2000. Its pastel Orange in color...... so cars/trucks SEE me well on road rides , hey...... safety is JOB #1 😉 The Colnago is Black/blue/grey/ with other color accents through out.

We are currently making reproductions of this frame in Columbus steel.

There was an inherent flaw in the design, with the two down tubes, especially with Ti. The down tube of a bike is where the strength of the bike really comes from. With 2 down tubes, it is literally impossible to create equal tension on those both (sort of like the spokes in the wheel - if one is off, the opposite one is stressed more while riding). With the Ti, when the bikes takes a lot of abuse, it tended to develop a crack in one of those tubes. Not horrible, but it would then have to be repaired, and you still might not get the correct tension, thus cracking again later down the road.

I am making them with steel which has a bit more "stretch" in its properties which eliminates the cracking problems. Also, Titanium is now butted at the ends better and can help with the life of those frames (although we are not making the titanium because of the added expense of the material, and it is not much lighter than steel). Also, we are using a steel BB30 bottom bracket instead of the old skinny threaded bottom brackets of old. This reduces the bottom bracket flex to almost zero, which helps secure the twin tubes better, along with a bigger diameter head, top and seat tube.

The stronger construction eliminates the cracking, and makes for a very, very cool bike, and exceptional riding. (actually stiff in the lower area, with a nice solid ride)

If you want one of the frames made, feel free to contact me. We could have one built up in about 6 weeks

Dave
LIEBO Bicycles Inc.

Dave, Please post some photos and sizes available.

Will do. First one i don't have (sorry), but putting together the second one, will have a pic in about 2 weeks

Dave,

This sounds awesome. Please post a picture(s) and geometry details.

This thread got me thinking back in 2006-07. I've since sold my "treasured" Master Ti in early 2008. Sold the frameset + record HS, + stem + handlebar + 8-speed Record BB = $1500. I had bought the frameset new for $1750 in 1997.

In general, I prefer a single oversized downtube now, however I'd like to check out Dave's creation.

Regarding geometry, I have been using the "small, small/medium, medium, large" geometries of lately, like todays carbon bikes. It makes it a bit easier to fit people, and we put in about a 4-6 degree sloping toptube for looks, although any geometry can be done.

Tubes are on the way!

[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG] Sorry for the delay, but here is the frame all tacked up and ready for welding. I did not miter the tubes together towards the top, because our thoughts were that even though you "think" it may be stronger, cutting down the sides of the tube to weld them together would actually make it flex more. Keeping the tube round actually stays the strongest. Some of the Colnago frames have those diamond shape, but i cant find those. The tubes on this are 35mm top and seat, 37mm head tube, and 19mm tubes for the twin downtubes. This frame looks great proportionally. I made it a small frame size 53top tube, but can make them any size id say to a 58. The bigger ones I would use a different head tube and use 22-25mm downtubes, but it would get a bit chunky.

I can also make in any geometry, and its actually pretty easy to set up. Only took one day to get this far. Again , this is made from steel, so my thoughts after testing is that it should never crack like the titaniums

email me or call for info! [email hidden]

And some more shots built up. Rides incredible...

tinyurl.com3dywokmOpen ↗