Cold Bjarne

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If it's
shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and betrayed
the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is finished at
CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

It's all about management scapegoating workers.

What did they call Riis back when he gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF? Some kind of number nickname or something...

Values? my fresh-out-of-the-shower ass, Lafferty.

Mr. 60% is OK because he didn't get caught, and doesn't race anymore?
And he's been washed clean because he says "the right things" about
doping after not getting caught at it himself while gaining weight and
turning orange during the TdF?

Onward Christian Soldiers! The War on People must be won! --D-y

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If it's
shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and betrayed
the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is finished at
CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

It's all about management scapegoating workers.

What did they call Riis back when he gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF? Some kind of number nickname or something...

Values? my fresh-out-of-the-shower ass, Lafferty.

Mr. 60% is OK because he didn't get caught, and doesn't race anymore?
And he's been washed clean because he says "the right things" about
doping after not getting caught at it himself while gaining weight and
turning orange during the TdF?

Onward Christian Soldiers! The War on People must be won! --D-y

I think you failed to detect the subtle sarcasm in Mr Lafferty's post.
I think he knows Riis' history (as we all do).

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If
it's shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and
betrayed the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is
finished at CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

It's all about management scapegoating workers.

What did they call Riis back when he gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF? Some kind of number nickname or something...

Values? my fresh-out-of-the-shower ass, Lafferty.

Mr. 60% is OK because he didn't get caught, and doesn't race anymore?
And he's been washed clean because he says "the right things" about
doping after not getting caught at it himself while gaining weight and
turning orange during the TdF?

H'mmmm... not as simple as that. Let's assume Bjarne doped. That doesn't
mean he recommends doping to his riders. Ten years ago, doping was
certainly very common - /probably/ commoner than it is now, in the post
Festina era. Most current directeurs sportif were riders pre-Festina;
presumably, many of them doped.

One thing we know for sure about Bjarne Riis: he's very intelligent, and
he's very focussed. It entirely rings true to me - true to what we know
about both men - that if Basso really was doping privately and not
telling Riis, Riis would be livid, and that would be the end of Basso's
career with CSC whether or not Riis is genuinely anti-doping.

But it's by no means impossible that Bjarne is really anti-doping now.
He's older, and hopefully he's wiser. He's extremely canny. He knows
perfectly well that too many scandals will destroy the sport of cycling,
and with it his business.

Sinners can repent. And sinners who don't repent can still come to the
conclusion that further sin is strategically unwise. Even if he did he
did dope, if he has genuinely changed his opinion, it isn't hypocrisy to
say so.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If
it's
shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and
betrayed
the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is finished at
CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

It's all about management scapegoating workers.

What did they call Riis back when he gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF? Some kind of number nickname or something...

Values? my fresh-out-of-the-shower ass, Lafferty.

Mr. 60% is OK because he didn't get caught, and doesn't race anymore?
And he's been washed clean because he says "the right things" about
doping after not getting caught at it himself while gaining weight and
turning orange during the TdF?

Onward Christian Soldiers! The War on People must be won! --D-y

I think you failed to detect the subtle sarcasm in Mr Lafferty's post.
I think he knows Riis' history (as we all do).

Merci.

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If it's
shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and betrayed
the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is finished at
CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

Any bets on what team Basso would go to if they did fire him (assuming he
gets off on the charges). I can imagine a well heeled team like Discovery
being interested, although dupedcyclist would probably threaten to launch
a massive dump against them.

B. Lafferty wrote:
(someone wrote):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you failed to detect the subtle sarcasm in Mr Lafferty's post.
I think he knows Riis' history (as we all do).

(BL replied):

Quoted message said:

Merci.

Should the lack of Lance content been my tipoff? --D-y

Donald Munro said:

Any bets on what team Basso would go to if they did fire him (assuming he
gets off on the charges). I can imagine a well heeled team like Discovery
being interested, although dupedcyclist would probably threaten to launch
a massive dump against them.

Perhaps a team based in a small country with a pliable federation, and
sponsored by the cronies of a central asian mafia regime?

in message <[email hidden]>, Donald

Munro (') said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If
it's shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and
betrayed the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is
finished at CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

Any bets on what team Basso would go to if they did fire him (assuming
he gets off on the charges). I can imagine a well heeled team like
Discovery being interested, although dupedcyclist would probably
threaten to launch a massive dump against them.

After Riis's interview it's hard to see Basso staying with CSC, but I
will have really divided loyalties if he goes and rides for someone
else.

Ah, life exists to [censored] on naive idiots.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Sending your money to someone just because they've erected
;; a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you
;; need to use your data does not help the economy or spur
;; innovation. - Waffle Iron Slashdot, June 16th, 2002

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ivan must prove his innocence to us," Riis told the newspaper. "If
it's shown that Basso had a liaison with Fuentes, if he lied to me and
betrayed the team and the values which we defend on this team, he is
finished at CSC."
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10744.0.html

It's all about values.

It's all about management scapegoating workers.

What did they call Riis back when he gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF? Some kind of number nickname or something...

Values? my fresh-out-of-the-shower ass, Lafferty.

Mr. 60% is OK because he didn't get caught, and doesn't race anymore?
And he's been washed clean because he says "the right things" about
doping after not getting caught at it himself while gaining weight and
turning orange during the TdF?

H'mmmm... not as simple as that. Let's assume Bjarne doped. That doesn't
mean he recommends doping to his riders. Ten years ago, doping was
certainly very common - /probably/ commoner than it is now, in the post
Festina era. Most current directeurs sportif were riders pre-Festina;
presumably, many of them doped.

One thing we know for sure about Bjarne Riis: he's very intelligent, and
he's very focussed. It entirely rings true to me - true to what we know
about both men - that if Basso really was doping privately and not
telling Riis, Riis would be livid, and that would be the end of Basso's
career with CSC whether or not Riis is genuinely anti-doping.

But it's by no means impossible that Bjarne is really anti-doping now.
He's older, and hopefully he's wiser. He's extremely canny. He knows
perfectly well that too many scandals will destroy the sport of cycling,
and with it his business.

Sinners can repent. And sinners who don't repent can still come to the
conclusion that further sin is strategically unwise. Even if he did he
did dope, if he has genuinely changed his opinion, it isn't hypocrisy to
say so.

Of course, sinners can repent. But why would Riis have appointed dr.Cecchini
as team doctor? Cecchini, who among his "patients" had Casagrande, Hamilton,
Ullrich ... and Riis himself. To give him the good doctor an opportunity to
repent too? Quite possible that Riis is anti-doping now. Perhaps he has
always been anti-doping. But he also wants to win and ten years ago he was a
realist and no doubt he is still a realist

Benjo

Quoted message said:

Not much repentance I think, but lots of hypocrisy. The result of bad
rules and bad enforcement following. --D-y

In most societies it pays to be a hypocrite.