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Cokers & Pedals w/ Pins

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
9 May 2005
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10 May 2005
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David_Stone
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  1. After reading a note from my pal Adam, I'm seriously considering getting
    metal pedals with pins. I've been using decent plastic pedals, and part
    of the reason is that I don't like when pins enter my body and take out
    chunks of it.

    But Adam made a bunch of good points, and I'm thinking maybe I should
    get pin-pedals and just wear shin guards (or even, dog-fuhbid, long
    pants). It seems like a few of my bad UPDs would have been avoidable had
    I been using better pedals.

    Thoughts?

    --
    David_Stone
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  2. Grippy pinned pedals are a great upgrade for a Coker. Grippy pedals
    make it possible to put more body english into turns and other
    maneuvers. It makes the Coker more controllable.

    I have never had a pinned pedal hit my leg or shin while riding the
    Coker. I don't bother with shin pads to protect me from the flesh
    eating pedals. It's not something I even worry about. I am however
    very consious of my flesh eating pedals on my muni. If I ride the muni
    without leg protection I often get bit.

    The big thing is to keep the pedals under your feet and the best way to
    do that is use grippy pedals with grippy shoes.

    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
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  3. I agree with JC. I've never got a pedal bite on my unprotected legs
    from my Coker and I use metal platform pedals. However, my MUni is
    always trying to chew up my lower legs. I always wear my 661's while
    Muniing😄

    --
    Krashin'Kenny - Crash Tested

    If you ain't crashing, you ain't going fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!

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  4. I can't stand an insecure feeling between pedals and feet. That can be
    caused by incorrect Q as well. The most grippy pedals won't help if
    your feet want to be elsewhere.

    Grippy pedals are great for bad weather, bumpy roads, heavily-crowned
    roads (where there is a lot of side force on the pedals), hills (where
    one is doing a lot of hard spinning), standing on the pedals.

    They are not as much better than plastic for smooth, dry, flat roads on
    sunny days.

    Another factor is platform size. Having a large, supportive platform is
    just as important. Getting the outside edge of your foot on solid pedal
    makes a big difference in foot security. Some pedals with fancy pins
    are narrower than others.

    I always have grippy pedals on, but then I always have leg armor on.
    John's knee warmer suggestion has come in very handy this spring, and
    I'm always wearing them too to keep from putting holes in my skin.

    Your UPDs can be spectacular, David, but I don't really know if grippy
    pedals would have prevented them. More likely, your switch to longer
    cranks will help more. The combination of the two, adding a helmet, and
    eliminating unnecessary risks such as riding against traffic and talking
    on the cell phone while riding, would make the family unit very happy.

    My two cents.

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
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  5. I remove some of the pins for the right amount of grip. On my muni, I
    only use the pins on the front edge of the pedal.

    --
    unimind - Senior Member

    john
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  6. U-Turn said:

    *I can't stand an insecure feeling between pedals and feet. That can
    be caused by incorrect Q as well.

    Your UPDs can be spectacular, David, but I don't really know if grippy
    pedals would have prevented them. More likely, your switch to longer
    cranks will help more. The combination of the two, adding a helmet,
    and eliminating unnecessary risks such as riding against traffic and
    talking on the cell phone while riding, would make the family unit
    very happy.
    *

    Thanks for the ideas about platforms, D3. I'm not sure what Q is.

    For the record, I always wear a helmet on my Coker and always have.

    --
    David_Stone
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  7. David_Stone said:

    *Thanks for the ideas about platforms, D3. I'm not sure what Q is.*


    Well essentially, it is the distance between pedals. Sheldon Brown
    calls it "tread" or "Q-factor", and makes it the distance between pedal
    attachment points, which is close enough. Distance between pedals on a
    unicycle is determined by axle length and crank design. Some cranks
    flare outwards more, increasing their contribution to a given wheel's Q.
    Widening a unicycle hub with welded-on flanges not only separates the
    flanges more, but also separates the pedals more.

    On the stock Coker, my feet always wanted to drift outwards, even when
    using super grippy pedals to try to "lock" my feet in place. This left
    me fighting the unicycle and was quite unsettling. When I switched to
    the wide hub, I was noticeably happier on both grippy and non-grippy
    pedals. Similarly, on my Suzue-based 29er, I had to add pedal
    extensions to be comfortable. Recent experiments I've done with a KH
    hub-based 29er show me that the pedal spacing for me is pretty good
    without adding the extensions, since the hub/axle are wider and the
    cranks have more contribution to Q than the Bike Euros on the other
    29er.

    Since pedal spacing is a factor in bicycle fit, it is reasonable to
    conclude it is also a factor in unicycle fit, with the above experiences
    serving as instances of a general principle. However, a bit of thought
    about the nature of unicycling and fit shows one that individual body
    characteristics, seat height, seat type, crank length, riding type, and
    even terrain type are all complicating factors, so that calculating the
    ideal Q for a person is a non-trivial task. It is currently not
    possible to calculate accurately a person's ideal unicycle Q from body
    measurements and the like.

    However, road riding is the unicycling style that is the most controlled
    in terms of seat height and body motion, so it may be the one to start
    with by simple individual experimentation, as I have done.

    In general, we currently have control over: seat type, hub width (more
    precisely, axle length), crank brand, pedal width. These things are
    worth playing with for a serious rider in order to achieve optimal Q.
    Note that some hubs have proprietary axle/crank interfaces so that using
    a different brand of cranks is not possible. Note also that, for some
    or most cranks, choosing a longer crank also increases that crank's
    contribution to Q.

    Optimal Q is desirable for: relaxing while maintaining proper foot
    position on the pedals, even on rough terrain; minimizing side pressure
    on the saddle; minimizing muscle and tendon interference by the saddle;
    developing optimal energy transfer through the legs to the pedals;
    developing higher spinning rates with longer cranks; and the like.

    Although some riders dismiss Q as an issue, I believe, partly based on
    my own personal experience, partly from simple thought experiments, and
    partly from the bicycling literature, that Q is quite important for the
    serious unicyclist. As distance riding (both road and off-road, touring
    or racing) develops, Q-factor will become a major factor in fitting a
    unicycle to a rider for optimal performance over many miles. I have
    started developing a unicycle-specific system for quantifying this, and
    hope to fold it into 'the unicycles I build'
    (http://www.livewireunicycles.com).

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
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  8. David_Stone said:

    *After reading a note from my pal Adam, I'm seriously considering
    getting metal pedals with pins. I've been using decent plastic pedals,
    and part of the reason is that I don't like when pins enter my body
    and take out chunks of it.

    But Adam made a bunch of good points, and I'm thinking maybe I should
    get pin-pedals and just wear shin guards (or even, dog-fuhbid, long
    pants). It seems like a few of my bad UPDs would have been avoidable
    had I been using better pedals.

    Thoughts? *

    Just get pinned pedals and don't fall off.

    I reckon the large reduction in fallings off saves you a lot more hurt
    than the small chance of shinning yourself on a coker. I've only ever
    hit my shins on the muni and then not badly.

    Joe

    --
    joemarshall - dumb blonde
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  9. I agree with David, that Q-factor is very important for unicycles. In
    my opium it is considerably more important than on bicycles because
    there is an additional factor with them. On a bike the main factor
    affecting the Q-factor is the hip width and the natural position of the
    legs. On unicycles there is an additional factor which is the lateral
    movement created when you press on the pedal. On a muni (or when casual
    riding) it is advantageous to use this lateral movement for control.
    When it comes for straight racing this lateral movement is a problem and
    you need the wheel to spin as smoothly as possible. If you check out
    the unicycles that are used by the top riders at UNICON you will find
    that many of them have cut down narrowed to help with this.

    My experience with widening my hub is that although it made my Coker
    more handleable off-road it dropped my top speed by 1mph and made my
    high speed cruising less comfortable. (Take note Zach, check out a few
    widths of hubs/cranks when training and see what you are comfortable
    with).

    Roger

    --
    rogeratunicycledotcom - ok ish Unicyclist

    ++++++++++++++++++
    Unicycle.com in the UK
    The UK's Unicycle Source
    www.unicycle.uk.com
    +++++++++++++++++++
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  10. rogeratunicycledotcom said:

    *In my opium it is considerably more important...*

  11. In my experiences I have never hit my legs on the pedals of my coker.
    This is much different from my experiences on my trials, where people
    always ask me if my legs were mauled by a tiger.

    The big wheel on a coker keeps the pedals away from my legs. I'm having
    trouble imagining shredding my legs on a coker. I'm just not seeing how
    it would happen.

    You should be safe with pinned pedals sans leg armor on a coker. *Waits
    for the cokerhead to tell their story about mangeling their legs* :eek:

    --
    Bob22b - MCL Tearer :d
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  12. Pinned pedals on a Coker. Not slippery when wet. It was my first upgrade
    and I'm glad I did it years ago. Like others who have posted, I've
    raked my shins plenty of times but never on a Coker. I don't ride at
    David Stone speeds, though. Your UPD's are probably launches in which
    regaining control is much more difficult. I wouldn't want pinned pedals
    chasing me down the pavement necessarily.

    --
    harper - TANKED at GASWORKS

    -Greg Harper

    B L U E S H I F T

    "My world view has come crashing down like a drunk clown on a giraffe,
    riding through a cactus patch..." -evil-nick on "Entry of the
    Gladiators"
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  13. Ooh -- I forgot to mention a little story. I was uni'ing in an annual
    ride along with my bro and our friend (and co-fo of the NYUC) Joe
    Merrill. Suddenly Joe lost his balance due to a little dip in the road.
    He hopped off at about 14mph and held onto his Coker by the seat (in
    order to keep it from dashing into the bikers behind him). The problem
    was that he didn't know a technique I've used ever since that day
    (meaning that I didn't know it either). What I now know is that if you
    end up in Joe's position (post-UPD running while you hold the Coker
    behind you), you need to LIFT THE COKER as it 'runs' behind you. What
    happened to Joe was that he slowed down faster than the Coker did,
    causing it to swerve in front of him. His legs got caught in his nasty
    pedals, and he ended up getting 7 stitches at the hospital for the gash
    in his shin.

    I've gotten enough responses to know that I need to get some wide,
    pinned pedals. I'll get back to everyone on this subject some time next
    year after I figure out how much better life is with an improved Q. [And
    thanks to Dave Stockton for info on THAT subject -- very informative!]

    D1

    --
    David_Stone
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  14. There are metal pinned pedals that are less flesh eating than others.
    Some pedals have smoother and more rounded grip pins than others.
    Pedals that use threaded set screws for grip pins will have sharp edges
    that rip skin more easily. Pedals with smoother pins are less likely to
    rip the skin.

    Some pedals at 'Dan's Comp' (http://www.danscomp.com/) that have more
    skin friendly pins:

    Haro Big Block
    They're big and heavy. Short little grip pins that are smooth.

    Sun Ringle Zuzu
    Smooth grip pins. Traditional concave DX style pedal. Lots of pins.
    I've been using the Zuzu pedals on my Coker.

    Wellgo Platform Pedal
    It looks like the Wellgo's also have a smooth grip pin. Hard to tell
    exactly from the picture.

    Unicycle.com also has the Bulletproof pedals which look to have the same
    smooth style grip pins as the Wellgo's.

    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

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  15. David,
    Since I added magnesium pinned pedals and changed from my everyday shoes
    to sticky Vans I have not had any upd's or any meat removed from my
    legs. As well as john childs said. And I RIP thru the trails every
    day.
    Try it You won't regret it.

    Adam

    --
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