Is this government, indeed any government merely paying lip service to the car/congestion problem. Is the inescapable fact that cars have become not just a means of pleasurable outings for the family but an essential tool of modern living? If you live in the countryside or in a place with one bus a week how do you function without a car? Its a good but uncomfortable point. We don't shop in local stores anymore because most people live such busy lives and both spouses work full time. It's motor to the out of town supermarket and get the weekly shop (three cheers for fridge/freezers).
Argos, Asda, Mothercare, Ikea etc. have all run down their main stores in town and gone to the new development in Ferry Road, Cardiff. The reason being is that there is parking for thousands of cars. PC World, Marks and Spencers, Carpet Land etc have done the same thing at Culverhouse Cross. The point here is that, yes you could get there by bus, but what a chore. Without the car these businesses would not have moved there. Cardiff is well served by local trains, but for how much longer?
<snip diatribe on how a car is "essential" these days>
Was at the Hermitage shopping centre (Sighthill,Edinburgh) note this is an edge of city shopping centre rather than one that is miles outwith the city, and it has no bus service, closest you can get by bus is ½ mile away (not a great distance in the big scheme of things but does seem a VERY long distance when carrying your purchases [a 1m x ½m notice board, yesterday]), and if you are not in a car you have to come in via the back (loading bays) and access the front via a small alley way. Second class citizen indeed.
<snip diatribe on how a car is "essential" these days>
Was at the Hermitage shopping centre (Sighthill,Edinburgh) note this is an edge of city shopping centre rather than one that is miles outwith the city, and it has no bus service, closest you can get by bus is ½ mile away (not a great distance in the big scheme of things but does seem a VERY long distance when carrying your purchases [a 1m x ½m notice board, yesterday]), and if you are not in a car you have to come in via the back (loading bays) and access the front via a small alley way. Second class citizen indeed.
I presume you were at Homebase or Office World? There's a railway station and a guided busway not 200 metres away - and access to the front of the buildings.
<snip diatribe on how a car is "essential" these days>
I think you may have missed my point. My 'diatribe' is against past governments short sightedness in butchering the rail/public transport system and encouraging private car ownership.
In the end I suppose the equation is this: car drivers subsidise the government (billions in tax). Government subsidise the railways billions.
Is this government, indeed any government merely paying lip service to the car/congestion problem. Is the inescapable fact that cars have become not just a means of pleasurable outings for the family but an essential tool of modern living? If you live in the countryside or in a place with one bus a week how do you function without a car? Its a good but uncomfortable point. We don't shop in local stores anymore because most people live such busy lives and both spouses work full time. It's motor to the out of town supermarket and get the weekly shop (three cheers for fridge/freezers).
I have always managed to live within easy walking distance of (or else pass on my cycling commute) a large shop where I could easily get everything I wanted. Furthermore, the shops are open in the evening so I can just wander round after work in the early evening as it suits me. Admittedly, I would be less likely to walk it if I was carrying a family's requirements, but it's not clear to me how driving to an out of town shopping centre would save time.
Of course, if people choose to live miles away from services, then they will have to travel miles to reach them. Shops don't often vanish overnight and people move house every 5-7 years or thereabouts. I have little sympathy for those who won't use the village shop because it is too expensive, and then whinge when it shuts.
"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Of course, if people choose to live miles away from services, then they will have to travel miles to reach them. Shops don't often vanish overnight and people move house every 5-7 years or thereabouts. I have little sympathy for those who won't use the village shop because it is too expensive, and then whinge when it shuts.
It's not just in the villages. I have a shop across the road from me, right in the middle of suburbia. However I go in there maybe twice a year at best. It's rediculously expensive. In the 'local shop' a loaf of bread is about 74p, at Sainsburys it's 17p, guess where I do my shopping. And that's the same for most items, and Sainsburys is not a cheap supermarket!
I've every sympathy for the local retailers but also understand why the people who live there won't pay a massive (not small, massive) premium for the privelige of shopping there.
It's not just in the villages. I have a shop across the road from me, right in the middle of suburbia. However I go in there maybe twice a year at best. It's rediculously expensive. In the 'local shop' a loaf of bread is about 74p, at Sainsburys it's 17p, guess where I do my shopping. And that's the same for most items, and Sainsburys is not a cheap supermarket!
I've every sympathy for the local retailers but also understand why the people who live there won't pay a massive (not small, massive) premium for the privelige of shopping there.
Yeeeesss... but the (ahem) "bread" you get for 17p... I mean... <gulp>... your poor guts 🙁
It's not just in the villages. I have a shop across the road from me, right in the middle of suburbia. However I go in there maybe twice a year at best. It's rediculously expensive. In the 'local shop' a loaf of bread is about 74p, at Sainsburys it's 17p, guess where I do my shopping. And that's the same for most items, and Sainsburys is not a cheap supermarket!
I've every sympathy for the local retailers but also understand why the people who live there won't pay a massive (not small, massive) premium for the privelige of shopping there.
Yeeeesss... but the (ahem) "bread" you get for 17p... I mean... <gulp>... your poor guts 🙁
Not only that, how long does it take you to get to Sainsburys? 20 mins each way? That's the best part of 4 quid's "worth" of your time at minimum wage, plus wear and tear on your bike (I'm assuming you travel by bike ;-).
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:22:17 -0000, "nobody760" <[email hidden]> wrote in message <[email hidden]>:
Quoted message said:
We don't shop in local stores anymore because most people live such busy lives and both spouses work full time. It's motor to the out of town supermarket and get the weekly shop (three cheers for fridge/freezers).
You forgot "and then whine that the village shop has closed down and there is no local petrol station" - both of which would, of course, still be present and in rude health if the locals (who tend to have a much better appreciation of the old adage "use it or lose it"😉 hadn't been forced out by escalating house prices and creeping yuppification.
A classic "countryside as yuppie theme park" problem.
"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Yeeeesss... but the (ahem) "bread" you get for 17p... I mean... <gulp>... your poor guts 🙁
Which is why I buy the 44p bread, but that's not the point. For people with limited cash then occasional trips to the supermarket by car are more economic than more regular trips to the local shop.
Quoted message said:
Not only that, how long does it take you to get to Sainsburys? 20 mins each way?
By car, 5-6 munites By bike, 10 minutes there, 20 back (it's at the bottom of the hill I'm at the top) Walking, 30 minutes each way.
Quoted message said:
That's the best part of 4 quid's "worth" of your time at minimum wage, plus wear and tear on your bike (I'm assuming you travel by bike ;-).
If it's the weekend I don't count my time by the hour :-p
By car, 5-6 munites By bike, 10 minutes there, 20 back (it's at the bottom of the hill I'm at the top) Walking, 30 minutes each way.
I guess if time is the constraint, then you can't beat the car, away from any urban mess anyway.
However...
Cycling does make multiple use of the time. For example, you can argue that 30 mins round-trip cycling also encompasses 30 mins of cardio workout, and (assuming you enjoy cycling) 30 mins of R&R as well, so you've made triple use of that time slot. If you are environmentally minded, you can also notch up a brownie point or two for not polluting the world by using a car.
My approach is to cycle the 35km round-trip to the supermarket (total time out of the house is typically 2 hours) and then work 2 hours extra in the evening when it's dark (I don't watch TV, so evenings are normally free).
I guess if time is the constraint, then you can't beat the car, away from any urban mess anyway.
However...
Cycling does make multiple use of the time. For example, you can argue that 30 mins round-trip cycling also encompasses 30 mins of cardio workout, and (assuming you enjoy cycling) 30 mins of R&R as well,
You're also freeing up money (not spent on petrol, parking, etc) that can be used to enhance your pleasure time in other activities.
It's not just in the villages. I have a shop across the road from me, right in the middle of suburbia. However I go in there maybe twice a year at best. It's rediculously expensive. In the 'local shop' a loaf of bread is about 74p, at Sainsburys it's 17p, guess where I do my shopping. And that's the same for most items, and Sainsburys is not a cheap supermarket!
The difference being, of course, that Sainsbury sell teh bread to you at signifdicantly less than what it costs for teh farmer to grow the wheat, never mind for anyone to makle the bread, specifically so you'll make teh comparison you just did.
It's a loss leader. While loss-leadering (or whatever the term might be) is not necesarily intrinsically bad, the way it's used by the big supermarkets is (in my opinion).
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:43:39 GMT someone who may be "soup" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
is this guided busway a new thing, had never heard of it before?
It is the Council's latest folly. ISTR it was opened a bit before Christmas. The 22 bus has used it since it opened and I believe another service is using it now.
If you want a laugh give it a try. Note that the ride, vertical and horizontal, is less smooth than on a road. It also takes longer to make the journey than it would have done had they just built a road. Even by the standards of the City of Edinburgh Council this is a gross waste of money.
-- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:16:42 -0000 someone who may be "Mark Hewitt" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
For people with limited cash then occasional trips to the supermarket by car are more economic than more regular trips to the local shop.
They must have a car that is very cheap to run.
-- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:43:39 GMT someone who may be "soup" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
is this guided busway a new thing, had never heard of it before?
Even by the standards of the City of Edinburgh Council this is a gross waste of money.
Councils never communicate do they! Birmingham tried it in 1985/6/7. It failed. The tracks have been ripped up and replaced with trees. The only remnant is a no-entry sign with a "except guided buses" plaque underneath... -- Jesus was apparently betrayed by 8.3% of his disciples.
