<clipless pedals and pulling up>

wle said:

i keep seeing stuff like this:
"studies show that people who think they are pulling up on the pedals,
aren;t."

what does this mean?

IMO, it means that somebody wants to sell you a pair of expensive
cranks that will make your riding a lot less fun and a lot more work.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

wle said:

i keep seeing stuff like this:
"studies show that people who think they are pulling up on the pedals,
aren;t."

what does this mean?

i know good and well i can and do pull.

maybe not all the time but it;s pretty easy to know when you are
pulling.

i wear shimano sandals and my feet are coming off the sole, pulling
up on the shoe straps.

so what does it mean that some people who "think they are pulling.
aren;t?"

is that just wrong?

is there context missing?

is it a misquote?

wle.

I had the same feeling when I switched my fixie back to clips from
clipless. My "pulling" foot launched right out of the clip, because I
was so used to applying an upward force.

Even if it's only a couple of pounds of force, it has to help. I agree
with you that something's wrong with that claim.

-C

Collin said:

wle said:

i keep seeing stuff like this:
"studies show that people who think they are pulling up on the pedals,
aren;t."
what does this mean?
i know good and well i can and do pull.
maybe not all the time but it;s pretty easy to know when you are
pulling.
i wear shimano sandals and my feet are coming off the sole, pulling
up on the shoe straps.
so what does it mean that some people who "think they are pulling.
aren;t?"
is that just wrong?
is there context missing?
is it a misquote?
wle.

I had the same feeling when I switched my fixie back to clips from
clipless. My "pulling" foot launched right out of the clip, because I
was so used to applying an upward force.

Even if it's only a couple of pounds of force, it has to help. I agree
with you that something's wrong with that claim.

I think the deal is you can pull up at very low cadence, but once you
start pedaling faster than some not very fast cadence you can no
longer pull up.

"Jim Smith" I think the deal is you can pull up at very low cadence, but
once you start pedaling faster than some not very fast cadence you can no
longer pull up.
^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. If you ride with platform
pedals, and NO connection to your shoes, the most you can do is push. As
soon as you make any kind of connection with your shoes, you will find it
easy to increase the arc in which you deliver force to the pedals.

How do I know this? I recently returned to bike riding after having a hip
replaced. I was warned by the surgeon about the consequences of
falling/breaking my hip, so I opted to use platform pedals. I found that I
would frequently roll off the top of the pedal stroke. I am now starting to
use SPD's, and I find that, while I do not PULL, I can PUSH for more degrees
of crank rotation.

BTW, does anyone know whether Eggbeater pedals are easier or harder than
SPD's to get in and out of?

Sorry for being slow, but who made this claim?

Sorry, found quoted it further down

Leo Lichtman said:

falling/breaking my hip, so I opted to use platform pedals. I found that I
would frequently roll off the top of the pedal stroke. I am now starting to
use SPD's, and I find that, while I do not PULL, I can PUSH for more degrees
of crank rotation.

That, plus the ability to pull on those short climbs when you really need
it, are more than enough reasons to use clipless pedals rather than flat
ones.

Quoted message said:

BTW, does anyone know whether Eggbeater pedals are easier or harder than
SPD's to get in and out of?

I don't, but I do know that Speedplay Frogs are easier to get in and out
of than SPDs.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

"Ben A Gozar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think Richard Ballantine ( in one of his books )gave one of the reasons
that clipless pedals had an advantage over flats or some toe clips was that
if you make a conscious attempt to pull up on the return stroke of the cycle
the slow muscle response on the non power leg will be reduced. giving a
better and smoother action, especially for beginners and those of us who
don't have faster muscle `twitch` in the first place.

Colin N.

Colin Nelson said:

"Ben A Gozar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think Richard Ballantine ( in one of his books )gave one of the reasons
that clipless pedals had an advantage over flats or some toe clips was that
if you make a conscious attempt to pull up on the return stroke of the cycle
the slow muscle response on the non power leg will be reduced. giving a
better and smoother action, especially for beginners and those of us who
don't have faster muscle `twitch` in the first place.

Colin N.

Dear Colin,

I'm not arguing, just not sure what you mean.

Did you mean that the "slow muscle response" _time_ is
what's being reduced, meaning a faster response, an
increased speed, an improvement in how fast the leg that
just pulled up will push down a moment later?

Sorry if I'm still misunderstanding you. I'm interested
because this seems to be the first time that the idea has
been mentioned in these recent threads.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

That, plus the ability to pull on those short climbs when you really

need

Quoted message said:

it, are more than enough reasons to use clipless pedals rather than

flat

Quoted message said:

ones.

i agree.
i see now that the answer to my question is 'at high cadences, there is
not a lot of pulling'.
ok, i can buy that.

wle.

wle said:

i keep seeing stuff like this:
"studies show that people who think they are pulling up on the pedals,
aren;t."

what does this mean?

i know good and well i can and do pull.

maybe not all the time but it;s pretty easy to know when you are
pulling.

i wear shimano sandals and my feet are coming off the sole, pulling
up on the shoe straps.

so what does it mean that some people who "think they are pulling.
aren;t?"

is that just wrong?

is there context missing?

I (and most people) definitely pull when honking up a hill. However,
when spinning at 100rpm, even good riders just unweight the pedals on
the upstroke. A few elite pursuit riders might do a little bit of pulling.

Leo Lichtman said:

I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. If you ride with

platform

Quoted message said:

pedals, and NO connection to your shoes, the most you can do is push.

As

Quoted message said:

soon as you make any kind of connection with your shoes, you will

find it

Quoted message said:

easy to increase the arc in which you deliver force to the pedals.

I think it's possible that clips make your cycling more efficient
because of the energy you _don't_ use with them- you don't have to
spend any energy keeping your feet on the pedals. Even assuming that
you became so practiced at pedaling that you could keep your feet
perfectly placed on the pedals, there would still be constant forces
from bumps and swerves trying to dislodge your feet, not to mention
centrifugal force which might be a factor at higher RPMs.

I agree, there may be portions of the pedaling arc where some riders
apply force that would tend to push or pull their feet off the pedals
if they were not clipped in. But it's still possible that this effect
does not produce more efficient pedaling than a person who learns how
to apply force evenly without clips (disregarding the effect of my
first paragraph).