Climbing

This isn't math class, just go out there and use the gear that feels comfortable for you 😄 . Depending on your fitness level, who knows what gear ratio will work best.

There are lots of on line gear calculators...

Just find a percentage (%) that suits your training?

Uawadall:

This isn't math class, just go out there and use the gear that feels comfortable for you.
Yes, it is about the math and I don't need to be comfortable. I want to be able to climb 15%-17% grades

namesiw12 said:

Uawadall:

This isn't math class, just go out there and use the gear that feels comfortable for you.
Yes, it is about the math and I don't need to be comfortable. I want to be able to climb 15%-17% grades

You won't be able to climb grades that are 15-17% just by plugging in gear ratios into equations and maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.Maybe the word shouldn't have been "comfortable", I really meant to say capable or doable. Not trying to be rude, its just the only way to climb a steep hill is by climbing a steep hill. I've said my part, just listen to Volnix advice and find a online calculator.

namesiw12 said:

Uawadall:

This isn't math class, just go out there and use the gear that feels comfortable for you.
Yes, it is about the math and I don't need to be comfortable. I want to be able to climb 15%-17% grades

Yes, math is the key. On a 16% grade, you need to apply about twice the force from the tire to the ground that you need for 8%. So, to simulate the force required on a 16% grade while on an 8%, just use "double" the gear to double the force required at the pedals. 34/28 is a 1.21 ratio, double that is 2.42. 50-21 will be close to that ratio.

Once you have the force right, then cadence (and power) comes into play. To really stimulate the 16% grade, you'll need to practice in the big gear( 50-21) using the same cadence you can do in the 34-28.....ie, you need to climb the 8% grade twice as fast in the big gear. If your minimum speed to stay upright is 3 mph, then that should be your target speed for the 16% grade.

So, suggest you train for target speed of 6 mph on the 8% (using that 50-21). Once you've established that comfortably, the 16% hill should be no problem (using your 34-28 low gear).

dhk2 said:

Yes, math is the key. On a 16% grade, you need to apply about twice the force from the tire to the ground that you need for 8%. So, to simulate the force required on a 16% grade while on an 8%, just use "double" the gear to double the force required at the pedals. 34/28 is a 1.21 ratio, double that is 2.42. 50-21 will be close to that ratio.

Once you have the force right, then cadence (and power) comes into play. To really stimulate the 16% grade, you'll need to practice in the big gear( 50-21) using the same cadence you can do in the 34-28.....ie, you need to climb the 8% grade twice as fast in the big gear. If your minimum speed to stay upright is 3 mph, then that should be your target speed for the 16% grade.

So, suggest you train for target speed of 6 mph on the 8% (using that 50-21). Once you've established that comfortably, the 16% hill should be no problem (using your 34-28 low gear).

I admit that I was a little overly dismissive, but so many other factors come into play other than calculations.

-Your body positioning will change depending how steep the hill and preference. Some may need(or want) to climb out the saddle, hold the middle of the handlebars,etc....

-The wind resistance changes at different grades.

-The site of a 15-17% grade may be too intimidating to some and the mental factor can't be ignored. My first really steep climb had me wanting to retreat after only doing 10% of it, but I was able to do it with only one 20 second stop the first time and without any stops on the second try. Climbs really are a large part mental.

-The higher you go, the worse the altitude gets. This makes a climbing effort far more excruciating.

Again, I shouldn't have been so dismissive, but they're so many factors that come into play that make it way more than just about gear ratios.

There are two problems with steep grades (I consider 16% steep). The first problem is that your bike speed is very low unless you have a very high power to weight ratio. It's really difficult to stay upright and balanced at such low bike speeds and should be practiced (the low bike speed, regardless of the grade or power). The second problem is that if you are riding with typical road bike gearing, your cadence is going to be much lower than normal. I'm not a slouch at climbing and I have a climbing drivetrain setup (50-34/13-29). Nonetheless, I would be riding at a cadence of well below 50rpm on a 16% grade. At a cadence under 50rpm, I have to apply downforce all the way from the top of the stroke (in part because the bike slows down so quickly at such grades that you have to apply power constantly). At my normal cadence ~90, I don't apply force until about 60 degrees from top dead center. This is a very different pedal stroke and I find that I get fatigued more quickly at such low cadences at climbing power compared with 90rpm. You can simulate this, as stated above, by climbing a grade in a large gear. You want to get your rpms down to about 30-40.

namesiw12 said:

How to simulate high gradient.
ie, If I climb an 8% grade in 34-28, what higher gearing is needed to simulate a 16% grade on the same 8% grade?

Putting it in a bigger gear really doesn't simulate a steeper hill - it just ends up being the same hill in a bigger gear. 50rpm on an 8% hill in a big gear feels nothing like 16%+ on whatever gear you can turn over.

On the silly steep hills it's about power, weight and momentum. You also need to be a little more careful about deciding where to ride, especially on the steeper corners.

I'll tell you that I have done a lot of climbing with a standard 53/39- 12/25 crank and cogset. Not all that bad on an 8%.

But once I hit a 22% grade on the same setup. I had to stand up to keep from falling over. :o The section was about 40 yards long and I felt like crying! :lol:

If you use a 34 to climb 8 % grades, I would say the 16 to you would feel like the 22 to me.

I don't know what the gear equation would be but I felt like I was trying to climb in the 53/16! 🙁

I say pop it into the big ring and climb that 8%, I bet that's about the gear you would need to simulate the 16 % 😄 .

swampy1970 said:

Putting it in a bigger gear really doesn't simulate a steeper hill - it just ends up being the same hill in a bigger gear. 50rpm on an 8% hill in a big gear feels nothing like 16%+ on whatever gear you can turn over.

On the silly steep hills it's about power, weight and momentum. You also need to be a little more careful about deciding where to ride, especially on the steeper corners.

Agree it's all about power, weight and momentum. And sure, climbing at 6 mph vs 3 mph or less feels different due to the effort needed to balance the bike at low speeds. But I still think anyone who can climb an 8% grade at 6 mph in 50-21 should be able to climb a 16% grade at 3 mph in 34-28 because the force required on the pedals is about the same. Slow 30 rpm or less grinding out of the saddle, applying all force possible to keep the bike moving

Which gets to the point of the importance of having low enough gears for the long steep cimbs. At some gradient, you hit the limit where applying all bodyweight to the crankarm isn't enough to keep the bike moving. Most of us don't have gearing less than 1:1 on a road bike (my low is 30/27 on the triple bike). But on grades over 15%, I'd certainly use a lower gear..... 30/34 would be handy for those grades on some long rides.

namesiw12 said:

How to simulate high gradient.
ie, If I climb an 8% grade in 34-28, what higher gearing is needed to simulate a 16% grade on the same 8% grade?

You simulate on your 8% grade using a 34/28. You use your 22/36 on the 16% grade.

Your question really makes no sense.

Hey namesiw12, to simulate a 16% grade while on an 8% grade, switch to your 34/25 gear. This should give you a similar resistance. Happy cycling!