Climber killed by lightning bolt

Rodders said:

A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
Scottish hills.

26headline=lightning%2dbolt%2dkills%2dclimber%2don%2dhills-
name_page.html

or Tiny url

tinyurl.com2sh5pOpen ↗

Yikes! I was making my way onto Meall Buidhe to go on to
Beinn a Chreachain after doing Beinn Achaldair last Thursday
when I saw a flash and then BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM as the
thunder echoed around the hills. I didn't actually see the
bolt but made a sharpish retreat to a spot just off the
ridge where there was a safe route for the ligtning to
strike earth missing me and waited for the storm to pass. I
then set off again but another storm was following hard on
the heels of the first and I got another flash bang
experience so I high tailled it down the slopes of Meall
Buidhe towards the sparse woodland of the Cranach Wood. Of
course by the time I was down by the railway the sun was out
and it turned into a glorious evening. :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"
95/284

Sad news indeed, as are all fatalities. If caught out in the
open, apart from taking risk reduction measures, does
carrying an axe make any difference? I've heard yes it does,
ditch it, and no it doesn't, I'd be interested in any views
others may have, particularly from those, unlike me, who
have been caught in such conditions.

KRO

KRO said:

Sad news indeed, as are all fatalities. If caught out in
the open, apart from taking risk reduction measures, does
carrying an axe make any difference? I've heard yes it
does, ditch it, and no it doesn't, I'd be interested in any
views others may have, particularly from those, unlike me,
who have been caught in such conditions.

Unfortunately, no climber with an ice axe who has been
killed by lightning has lived to say if the axe was to
blame.

Personally, if there was a thunderstorm and my axe were
humming, I'd get it out of my hands or off my pack as soon
as possible.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
Scottish hills.

shocking.

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

C L Imber said:

KRO said:

Sad news indeed, as are all fatalities. If caught out in
the open, apart from taking risk reduction measures, does
carrying an axe make any difference? I've heard yes it
does, ditch it, and no it doesn't, I'd be interested in
any views others may have, particularly from those, unlike
me, who have been caught in such conditions.

Unfortunately, no climber with an ice axe who has
been killed by lightning has lived to say if the axe
was to blame.

Personally, if there was a thunderstorm and my axe were
humming, I'd get it out of my hands or off my pack as soon
as possible.

Seemingly his walking partner (brother) couldn't contact
the emergency services for 2.5 hours as the mobile phones
were zapped.

I've been speaking to a in Tyndrum friend tonight. He has
lost his modem and fax machine, and the TV "network" that
Tyndrum has is also fried.

Jim

Jim Willsher

Homepages at jimwillsher.co.ukjimwillsher.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Jim Ford said:

Pile rocks/kit around the head? I think you'd find a way
if there was static hissing and snarling around you!

Why does it have to be point up? As long as hitting it
represents the easiest electrical path to earth then it
shouldn't (?) matter if it's a point or if it's a meter
across. ICBW here, but I don't offhand see a necessity for
a point to be uppermost.

IIRC pointed objects concentrate the charge thus helping the
spark bridge the gap.

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

KRO <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
Scottish hills.

shocking.

--
Dewi,

Is that supposed to be a joke, I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt, but please elaborate on your "shocking".

It's a one-liner from a James Bond film.

(After he flung an electric fire in the bath and
electrocuted the bad girl).
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Why does it have to be point up? As long as hitting it
represents the easiest electrical path to earth then it
shouldn't (?) matter if it's a point or if it's a meter
across. ICBW here, but I don't offhand see a necessity for
a point to be uppermost.

I think it's something called electric field density ?
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Gordon said:

It's a one-liner from a James Bond film.

Quoted message said:

(After he flung an electric fire in the bath and
electrocuted the bad girl).

I've always wondered if that frequent film murder scenario
of throwing a live electric applicance into the bath would
actually work as reliably as we're led to believe. I'm
rather suspicious that it may depend on various crucial
factors of position, electrode separation, disposition of
body in water, and so on. Has anyone actually tried it?

No, but if you would like to sit in a bath, having signed
first signed a water-tight (sorry) disclaimer , I would give
it a try. I would avert my gaze, of course. ;-)

I was very sceptical about that scene, as with many of
the incidents in the Bond films, despite the
entertainment value.

I would expect that the live element would be quickly
earthed via the bath water, blowing the fuse, but if it had
been Bond in the bath, his lightning (hah!) fast reactions
would have enabled him to catch the electric fire by an
insulated part of its structure.

A slip of his hand though, and.... POUFF!
--
Gordon

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

* Gordon <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

I was very sceptical about that scene, as with many of
the incidents in the Bond films, despite the
entertainment value.

The best one, though wandering off-topic even further, was
the publicity poster of the first film (Dr No IIRC) with
Sean Conolly holding his arm across his chest with a pistol
in his hand. The problem was that he was holding a Walther
Luftpistol - yes that's an _air_ pistol and a pretty feeble
one at that - it couldn't kill a cat!

Regards: Jim Ford

It was supposed to have been his old faithful Walther PPK,
according to the book! Then I think it was Q who made him
use a Beretta instead.
--
Gordon

Apparantly the lightning hit his walking pole.Details can be accessed
on my hillwalking blog
bagger.typepad.comindexOpen ↗

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
Scottish hills.

shocking.

--
Dewi,

Is that supposed to be a joke, I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt, but please elaborate on your "shocking".

KRO

Trevor Barton said:

I dunno, in theory the point of your axe is more
attractive than the top of your head, but in practice your
best bet is to be somewhere else!

Lightning's weird, it can 'ignore' what seems to be an
attractive path and strike a much less likely path. I
remember seeing a photo by a lightning photographer in which
lightning was captured striking the chimney of a house,
ignoring a much higher, pointier tower next to it.

Quoted message said:

I think the accepted wisom is to squat, feet together,
hands over your ears, with no other thing touching the
ground and you.

The idea is to keep your feet together to minimise the
distance between them. If lightning strikes the ground
nearby the current travels outwards along it from the strike
point in all directions. If your feet straddle a couple of
feet of ground there may be several thousand volts relative
difference between each foot, resulting in electrocution.
Apprently this fate often befalls cows and other animals
with legs far apart. Stay away from potential strike targets
for this reason.

Keeping your head down means that any strike to your
body will hit your upper back and, hopefully, travel
down your back and into the ground, avoiding your
head/brain and chest/heart. I hope I'm never in a
position to test that one.

Squatting lowers your profile and hopefully prevents you
from distorting the electric field so much that you start to
present a discharge point to the opposing charge above.

Sticking your hands over your ears probably stops you going
deaf. There was a thunderstorm in this area on Monday with
appoximately half a second between the strikes and the
windows sounding they were coming in.

Quoted message said:

Sounds a bit like the position to adopt to kiss your [censored]
goodbye, to
me :-)

You could copy Homer Simpson, cover your head with a wide
sheet of corrugated iron and shelter under a huge tree 🙂

--
Chris

On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:57:33 +0000 (UTC), "KRO" <[email hidden]>
uttered:

Quoted message said:

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
Scottish hills.

shocking.

--
Dewi,

Is that supposed to be a joke, I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt, but please elaborate on your "shocking".

KRO

no

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

* C L Imber <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

Personally, if there was a thunderstorm and my axe were
humming, I'd get it out of my hands or off my pack as soon
as possible.

Seriously, if you suspect danger of lightning strike, there
_may_ be some safety gained by sticking an ice axe (or
_metal_ trecking pole) into the ground _point_up_ to act as
a lightning conductor. The crucial point here (apart from
the item being metal) is that the sharp point should be
pointing up. You should also get away from it as far as
possible, because you can get electrocuted from the
differential caused by the charge spreading out in the
ground from the strike. Any volunteers to test this?

Regards: Jim Ford

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:57:33 +0000 (UTC), "KRO"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

>A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
>Scottish hills.

shocking.

--
Dewi,

Is that supposed to be a joke, I'll give you the benefit
of the doubt,

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

please elaborate on your "shocking".

KRO

no

Well I'm glad I gave you the benefit then :-)

KRO

Gordon said:

KRO <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:45:55 +0100, "Rodders"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>A climber was killed by a lightning bolt whilst on the
>Scottish hills.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shocking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is that supposed to be a joke, I'll give you the benefit
of the doubt, but please elaborate on your "shocking".

Quoted message said:

It's a one-liner from a James Bond film.

Quoted message said:

(After he flung an electric fire in the bath and
electrocuted the bad girl).

I've always wondered if that frequent film murder scenario
of throwing a live electric applicance into the bath would
actually work as reliably as we're led to believe. I'm
rather suspicious that it may depend on various crucial
factors of position, electrode separation, disposition of
body in water, and so on. Has anyone actually tried it?

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

* C L Imber <[email hidden]> deigned to
grace uk.rec.walking * with their presence by
declaiming:

Quoted message said:

Personally, if there was a thunderstorm and my axe were
humming, I'd get it out of my hands or off my pack as
soon as possible.

Seriously, if you suspect danger of lightning strike,
there _may_ be some safety gained by sticking an ice axe
(or _metal_ trecking pole) into the ground _point_up_ to
act as a lightning conductor. The crucial point here
(apart from the item being metal) is that the sharp point
should be pointing up. You should also get away from it as
far as possible, because you can get electrocuted from the
differential caused by the charge spreading out in the
ground from the strike. Any volunteers to test this?

I'm curious to know how you stick an axe into the
ground point-up.

--
Adrian

"Jim Ford" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Seriously, if you suspect danger of lightning strike,
there _may_ be some safety gained by sticking an ice axe
(or _metal_ trecking pole) into the ground _point_up_ to
act as a lightning conductor. The crucial point here
(apart from the item being metal) is that the sharp point
should be

pointing

Quoted message said:

up. You should also get away from it as far as possible,
because you can

get

Quoted message said:

electrocuted from the differential caused by the charge
spreading out in

the

Quoted message said:

ground from the strike. Any volunteers to test this?

Hmm... I could get an action man and a cork borer and stick
them next to our Van De Graaf in various configurations.
Maybe soak the action man in petrol first for a more
realistic effect if he gets hit first.