Climate Camp - Cyclists

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:44:28 +0100, Matt B

matt.bourke'@nospam.london.com said:

Why put pressure on one activity, when a small efficiency increase on
the two major contributors, household energy use, and industry, would
amount to the same saving as eliminating air travel all together?

Why not do both?

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Conor said:

What you neglect to mention is the fact a train will do a journey it's
timetabled for even if there's few or no passengers. There are MANY
times a day where trains far exceed 1kWh per passenger per mile ( ~
equal to 10kWh per litre with a car doing 40MPG).

What you neglect to mention is that some of those journeys are moving
trains into the right places for very busy journeys, so are effectively
'fuel-cross-subsidised'.

Which I'm not talking about..

I'm talking about ones like my local line which spend a great deal of
time with sod all people on.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:33:10 +0100, Conor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Conor said:

What you neglect to mention is the fact a train will do a journey it's
timetabled for even if there's few or no passengers. There are MANY
times a day where trains far exceed 1kWh per passenger per mile ( ~
equal to 10kWh per litre with a car doing 40MPG).

What you neglect to mention is that some of those journeys are moving
trains into the right places for very busy journeys, so are effectively
'fuel-cross-subsidised'.

Which I'm not talking about..

I'm talking about ones like my local line

Which line would that be, then?

Quoted message said:

which spend a great deal of time

How much time, exactly?

Quoted message said:

with sod all

Fewer than standing-room-only?

Quoted message said:

people on.

In article <[email hidden]>, Marc Brett
says...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:33:10 +0100, Conor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Conor <[email hidden]> wrote:
> What you neglect to mention is the fact a train will do a journey it's
> timetabled for even if there's few or no passengers. There are MANY
> times a day where trains far exceed 1kWh per passenger per mile ( ~
> equal to 10kWh per litre with a car doing 40MPG).

What you neglect to mention is that some of those journeys are moving
trains into the right places for very busy journeys, so are effectively
'fuel-cross-subsidised'.

Which I'm not talking about..

I'm talking about ones like my local line

Which line would that be, then?

Hull to Scarborough.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which spend a great deal of time

How much time, exactly?

Most of the day outside of rush hour.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with sod all

Fewer than standing-room-only?

WAY fewer than that. Odd person dotted here and there.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Marc Brett
says...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:33:10 +0100, Conor <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...
> What you neglect to mention is that some of those journeys are moving
> trains into the right places for very busy journeys, so are effectively
> 'fuel-cross-subsidised'.

Which I'm not talking about..

I'm talking about ones like my local line

Which line would that be, then?

Hull to Scarborough.

Which is one train every two hours and some of those are Northern Rail
using trains which would otherwise sit at Hull Paragon doing nothing
except making them pay money to TPE, AIUI. Maybe if half the lines in
Scarborough hadn't closed, it wouldn't be quite such a tenuous line.
--
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Conor said:

What you neglect to mention is the fact a train will do a journey it's
timetabled for even if there's few or no passengers. There are MANY
times a day where trains far exceed 1kWh per passenger per mile ( ~
equal to 10kWh per litre with a car doing 40MPG).

Quoted message said:

What you neglect to mention is that some of those journeys are moving
trains into the right places for very busy journeys, so are effectively
'fuel-cross-subsidised'.

Which I'm not talking about..

I'm talking about ones like my local line which spend a great deal of
time with sod all people on.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

Oh, but they have to move to the next station just in case there is
someone waiting there for them. It would be very difficult to make
trains more 'on demand'.

David Lloyd

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Which is one train every two hours

Hardly.

Quoted message said:

and some of those are Northern Rail
using trains which would otherwise sit at Hull Paragon doing nothing
except making them pay money to TPE, AIUI. Maybe if half the lines in
Scarborough hadn't closed, it wouldn't be quite such a tenuous line.

It's not a unique example though.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, MJ Ray says...

Quoted message said:

Which is one train every two hours

Hardly.

OK, so HUL-SCA averages 1 per 90 minutes since the last timetable change,
as far as I can see from looking at traintimes.org.uk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and some of those are Northern Rail
using trains which would otherwise sit at Hull Paragon doing nothing
except making them pay money to TPE, AIUI. Maybe if half the lines in
Scarborough hadn't closed, it wouldn't be quite such a tenuous line.

It's not a unique example though.

Indeed, but rural lines are a small fraction of trains and usually the
smallest vehicles available. HUL-SCA is only 9 trains per day but probably
some of those are valuable connections for more efficient longer journeys,
giving the cross-fuel-subsidy mentioned previously.
--
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/