On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:32:03 -0700, Dan Daniel <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I was looking for this kind of thing months ago. Looking
looking looking. I never found it. There are the general
rules on knee pain, which seems to come down to two things-
saddle height and move the cleat back. Beyond that, I could
find nothing substantial.
I think that there is a reason for this- the factors are
too variable. Even in the answers here, you can see that.
You may think I was being snide, for reasons I can
understand, but I was being realistic based on my
experience. I did not ruin my knees with experiments. When
a position was better, my knees told me within a few miles.
When a position was worse, my knees told me within a few
miles. For me, it was a slow hunt, and parts of it are
still ongoing as I deal with different bikes and setup and
use issues.
One thing that has made a big difference for me is moving
my seat forward. This goes against the basic setup that is
recommended, where having the seat back gives better power.
But going forward helped eliminate the pain at the
top/inside of my knee cap. If you think about the pressure
on the upper kneecap in relation to the hip's position fore
and aft, this makes sense to me. But this is another story,
another 'try this- it worked for me' thing that is leaving
you very frustrated, I can see.
Quoted message said:On a similar note, I've always wondered with the new Look
pedals that allow you to move the platform in/out and also
change the angle, how do you know
(1) whether or not you need these two features and (2) how
do you figure out how much "correction" you need?
Uh, when it doesn't hurt you've found the right spot? 🙂
Oops, you don't like answers like that.....
Look, I have been very worried about long term damage.
Worried that a position that felt ok was actually chewing
up my knee from the inside and that I would never recover
from the damage. But it hasn't turned out this way.
Positions that have felt better have not come back to
haunt me.
Quoted message said:Surely there are biomechanical/physiological measurements
(NOT trial and error) that one might rely upon?
You might ask in rec.bicycles.racing or rec.bicycles.tech
Maybe people in one of those groups will be better
informed. Or at least have more sophisticated knowledge of
sports physiology information and resources on the web or
elsewhere.
Quoted message said:And I hope my reply did not come across as too strongly
worded for you. I really mean no offense, but would like
some solid info.
So would I, but I never found any. The closest I came was
looking into knee problems, and the focus was on runners.
Maybe there is a hidden mother lode of cleat position info
and studies out there, but no one here would ever let me in
on the secret 🙂
I would suggest r.b.racing or some other forum for racers
to find out if such information and studies exist.
This is a really great answer, Dan. In fact the whole thread
is a gem, IMO.
The thing is, ISTM, that the biomechanics and variables for
getting a good fit on the bike could be -very- complex, such
that moving the seat, or cleats or bar 3mm one way or
another could have a big effect on performance or on pain in
the knee, etc.
It's just not a straightforward thing, b/c you're dealing
with multi-joint and multi-facetted angles and positions,
such that if you tweak one thing, you might get another
thing out of adjustment. Heh, much like the bike itself.
Just raising the seat would seem to be a simple thing, but
when we did this, my brother ended up raising the
handlebars, which changed the front brakes, and so on...
Anyway, thanks for the info - I think it does take
experimentation to get those last few tweaks right, and
cessation of pain has got to be on the right track.
It's tough, b/c biking can be prone to overuse injury, even
though it's not load-bearing. It's a constant process of
change and adaptation.
-Badger -Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path
Rider"
