Cleaning Out Arteries

"TonishaWallace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a good

diet

Quoted message said:

and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for me to take?

Daily walks.

--Rich

From: [email hidden] (TonishaWallace)

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a
good diet and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for
me to take?

-------------------------

I dunno.

I've read that taking fruit fiber/pectin (grapefruit, apple, etc.), &
eating more vegetables with fiber, might be good for this.

Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

PS I remember reading an article, where the doctors are experimenting
with injections of the good cholesteral, ... which can somehow clean out
the arteries. ???

In article <[email hidden]>,

(TonishaWallace) said:

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a good diet
and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for me to take?

Start exercising regularly, eat a lot less fat and more fruits and
vegetables, and cut down on your total caloric intake. That will do it
for most people.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 5/8/2004 11:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

(TonishaWallace) said:

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a good

diet

Quoted message said:

and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for me to take?

Start exercising regularly, eat a lot less fat and more fruits and
vegetables, and cut down on your total caloric intake. That will do it
for most people.

Indeed, but there are other ways, never mind they are bebunked by the *gang*.

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

Jan

In article <[email hidden]>,

TonishaWallace said:

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a good diet
and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for me to take?

Well, if you can hack it, the Ornish diet is probably a good way to
try. (I say "if you can hack it" because the diet has some fairly
strong restrictions and many people are not able to stay on it.
However, there have been some good clinical results for those who did
stay on it.)

I don't think there's been a lot of evidence that any particular herb
or supplement will magically clean out your arteries with no
particular effort on your part. Alas. I wish there was such a
miracle substance. We could all take it.

Getting some regular exercise (if you aren't already) is also a good
idea.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Indeed, but there are other ways, never mind they are bebunked by the *gang*.

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

Jan

geez Jan..

when YOU or some chelation quackster can PROVE and DOCUMENT with pre and post
chelation angiographic EVIDENCE that chelation can and does reduce
plaque....THEN go right ahead and jump into such discussions as this..

in the meantime..STFU..

debunk?? no....we call it "standard of care in the community" and "evidence
based medicine"...

all we ask is the evidence

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 5:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Indeed, but there are other ways, never mind they are bebunked by the

*gang*.

Quoted message said:

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

Jan

geez Jan..

when YOU or some chelation quackster can PROVE and DOCUMENT with pre and post
chelation angiographic EVIDENCE that chelation can and does reduce
plaque....THEN go right ahead and jump into such discussions as this..

in the meantime..STFU..

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

Times are indeed changing--and all because of you. In our society, the
traditional structure of the doctor-patient relationship is being transformed
by patients like yourselves who are no longer willing to assume the passive
role, but choose instead to be "active patients," educating themselves about
their condition so that they can become partners with their physicians in the
management of their healthcare.
Herb of Corona del Mar, California, is typical of this new breed of medical
consumer who fortify themselves with information, explore all treatment options
thoroughly, and then commit themselves 100 percent to the treatments that make
the most sense to them.

Because of a bone disease in his hips called avascular necrosis, Herb had
walked with crutches and lived pain for two and one-half years. Discouraged
after more than a year of unsuccessful treatment, Herb contacted one of the new
health information services to provide him with information about his hip
condition. Included in his report from the service was an article about a new
experimental treatment called hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) that had been successful
for a disorder similar to Herb's. Herb contacted the doctor who wrote the
article and asked if this therapy might be beneficial for his condition. The
doctor replied that the HBO has not been proven effective for avascular
necrosis, but he felt that in Herb's case it was worth trying.

Herb underwent 28 HBO treatments over a period of six weeks. For nine months
following the treatments he continued to use crutches, while he gradually
increased his weight bearing. He also began swimming a mile three to four times
a week, and on the days when he didn't swim he did 500 sit-ups and 250
push-ups!

Today, Herb walks without crutches or a cane and is free of pain. X-rays taken
a year after the HBO treatments showed evidence not only of a halt in the
deterioration of the hip bones, but also show areas of new healthy bone tissue
replacing dead bone tissue. In a letter to the health information service he
used, Herb stated, "Without the article you sent me on hyperbaric oxygen
treatment, none of my progress would have been possible."

Another patient who took charge of his healthcare is George of Valley Stream,
New York. In 1985, diagnostic tests revealed that George's right carotid artery
was completely closed and his left artery was 50-79 percent obstructed. (The
carotid arteries are blood vessels that begin at the large artery of the heart
and run straight up through the neck.) Surgery was recommended to clean the
fatty deposits from the left artery, but surgery was not an option for the
artery which was totally obstructed. George was told that he was a prime
candidate for a massive stroke.

George then sought second, third, and even fourth opinions. He also began
reading everything he could about carotid artery disease. He ordered a
comprehensive research report on his condition from a health information
service.

George's reading left with many concerns about the recommended surgery. He
learned that the operation itself caused strokes in 15 percent of the patients,
five percent of whom died as a result. There were also growing charges that the
surgery was often done unnecessarily.

He also learned about a highly controversial alternative treatment for arterial
occlusion called chelation therapy. Intravenous chelation therapy is touted as
a chemical method of cleaning out arteries and removing plaque. There has been
considerable opposition to this therapy from both the American Medical
Association and the Food and Drug Administration. It is an unproven
therapy--time-consuming, and expensive--factors George had to weigh carefully.

George decided to pursue the chelation therapy and found a physician
experienced in the procedure. This physician stressed the importance of
lifestyle changes, changes which George had already decided were necessary.

George increase his intake of fiber, decreased his meat consumption, and
reduced his fat intake considerably. He exercised daily on a stationary bicycle
that also exercised the upper body.

After six months of chelation therapy and adherence to his new dietary and
exercise regimen, Doppler tests revealed that the obstruction in George's left
carotid artery was now 33 percent, a significant decrease from the original
50-79 percent occlusion. Today George's gains remain stable. He continues to
follow his exercise and nutrition program and to have chelation treatments once
a month.

The next time you or a member of your family is faced with a medical problem,
remember these stories and join the ranks of the "active patient." You may want
to explore treatment options yourself or you may choose to enlist the services
of a health information service. These services can provide information on
treatments, research, resource organizations, and the leading medical experts
connected with your disorder.

Most of the services are holistic in orientation--providing information on both
conventional medical treatments and alternative or adjunctive treatments such
as naturopathic and homeopathic treatments, acupuncture, and mind-body
approaches.

Editor's Note: AHHA offers a list of Health Information Search Services.

Janice Guthrie is president of The Health Resource, a medical research service
she founded in 1984. She was a researcher and administrator in higher education
before a diagnosis of cancer spurred her to develop this business as a service
to others with medical problems. She was one of the contractors in the recent
U.S. Congressional study of alternative cancer therapies. She can be reached at
(800) 949-0090 and www.thehealthresource.com.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

so Janny merely reposts the drivel

however...since she either did not READ...nor most likely did not COMPREHEND
what she reads..

ie

she reposts THIS

Quoted message said:

He also learned about a highly controversial alternative treatment for
arterial
occlusion called chelation therapy

Quoted message said:

Intravenous chelation therapy is touted as
a chemical method of cleaning out arteries and removing plaque. Ther

not proven...not documented by ANGIOGRAPHIC proof

ahhhh...but George does it anyoo..

and

Quoted message said:

This physician stressed the importance of
lifestyle changes, changes which George had already decided were necessary.

George increase his intake of fiber, decreased his meat consumption, and
reduced his fat intake considerably.

hmmm...remember this part folks

Quoted message said:

He exercised daily on a stationary bicycle
that also exercised the upper body.

and the above

Quoted message said:

Doppler tests revealed that the obstruction in George's left

no...if Janny were as SMART as you thinks she is (which is laughable and
pathetic)

Janny would know that DOPPLER is NOT angiography (look it up Janster)

Doppler is sound waves..

WHY do I point this out??

Perhaps because George's lifestyle changes...especially excercising,,,combined
with a low fat diet..etc....MOST LIKELY resulted in LOWER blood
pressure....hence LOWER pressure within the carotid arteries..

no change in level of plaque at all

ie..the CHELATION did SQUAT (cepting empty George's wallet)....

lowering the pressures within the vasculature WILL give better DOPPLER readings

Janny....nah..not a liar here...just a complete and utter dunce and know
nothing...

Doppler is NOT radiological or angiographic proof...

hence this chelation story is about as dimwitted a bulb as you are..

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

so Janny merely reposts the drivel

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and you
sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Quoted message said:

however...since she either did not READ...nor most likely did not COMPREHEND
what she reads..

Same ole same ole LIE from you.

Your typical taking aprt the article is just what I predicted.

Others who are not [censored] trying to show their superiority might read it with
an open mind,

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

Times are indeed changing--and all because of you. In our society, the
traditional structure of the doctor-patient relationship is being transformed
by patients like yourselves

****who are no longer willing to assume the passive role, but choose instead to
be "active patients," educating themselves about their condition so that they
can become partners with their physicians in the management of their
healthcare****
..
Herb of Corona del Mar, California, is typical of this new breed of medical
consumer who fortify themselves with information, explore all treatment options
thoroughly, and then commit themselves 100 percent to the treatments that make
the most sense to them.

Because of a bone disease in his hips called avascular necrosis, Herb had
walked with crutches and lived pain for two and one-half years. Discouraged
after more than a year of unsuccessful treatment, Herb contacted one of the new
health information services to provide him with information about his hip
condition. Included in his report from the service was an article about a new
experimental treatment called hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) that had been successful
for a disorder similar to Herb's. Herb contacted the doctor who wrote the
article and asked if this therapy might be beneficial for his condition. The
doctor replied that the HBO has not been proven effective for avascular
necrosis, but he felt that in Herb's case it was worth trying.

Herb underwent 28 HBO treatments over a period of six weeks. For nine months
following the treatments he continued to use crutches, while he gradually
increased his weight bearing.

***He also began swimming a mile three to four times a week, and on the days
when he didn't swim he did 500 sit-ups and 250 push-ups! ****

***Today, Herb walks without crutches or a cane and is free of pain. X-rays
taken a year after the HBO treatments showed evidence not only of a halt in the
deterioration of the hip bones, but also show areas of new healthy bone tissue
replacing dead bone tissue.***

In a letter to the health information service he used, Herb stated,

***"Without the article you sent me on hyperbaric oxygen treatment, none of my
progress would have been possible."***

Another patient who took charge of his healthcare is George of Valley Stream,
New York. In 1985, diagnostic tests revealed that George's right carotid artery
was completely closed and his left artery was 50-79 percent obstructed. (The
carotid arteries are blood vessels that begin at the large artery of the heart
and run straight up through the neck.) Surgery was recommended to clean the
fatty deposits from the left artery, but surgery was not an option for the
artery which was totally obstructed. George was told that he was a prime
candidate for a massive stroke.

George then sought second, third, and even fourth opinions. He also began
reading everything he could about carotid artery disease. He ordered a
comprehensive research report on his condition from a health information
service.

***George's reading left with many concerns about the recommended surgery. He
learned that the operation itself caused strokes in 15 percent of the patients,
five percent of whom died as a result. There were also growing charges that the
surgery was often done unnecessarily.****

He also learned about a highly controversial alternative treatment for arterial
occlusion called chelation therapy. Intravenous chelation therapy is touted as
a chemical method of cleaning out arteries and removing plaque.

***There has been considerable opposition to this therapy from both the
American Medical Association and the Food and Drug Administration. It is an
unproven therapy--time-consuming, and expensive--factors George had to weigh
carefully.***

George decided to pursue the chelation therapy and found a physician
experienced in the procedure. This physician stressed the importance of
lifestyle changes, changes which George had already decided were necessary.

George increase his intake of fiber, decreased his meat consumption, and
reduced his fat intake considerably. He exercised daily on a stationary bicycle
that also exercised the upper body.

***After six months of chelation therapy and adherence to his new dietary and
exercise regimen, Doppler tests revealed that the obstruction in George's left
carotid artery was now

**** 33 percent, a significant decrease from the original 50-79 percent
occlusion.****

Today George's gains remain stable. He continues to follow his exercise and
nutrition program and to have chelation treatments once a month****.

The next time you or a member of your family is faced with a medical problem,
remember these stories and join the ranks of the "active patient." You may want
to explore treatment options yourself or you may choose to enlist the services
of a health information service. These services can provide information on
treatments, research, resource organizations, and the leading medical experts
connected with your disorder.

Most of the services are holistic in orientation--providing information on both
conventional medical treatments and alternative or adjunctive treatments such
as naturopathic and homeopathic treatments, acupuncture, and mind-body
approaches.

Editor's Note: AHHA offers a list of Health Information Search Services.

Janice Guthrie is president of The Health Resource, a medical research service
she founded in 1984. She was a researcher and administrator in higher education
before a diagnosis of cancer spurred her to develop this business as a service
to others with medical problems. She was one of the contractors in the recent
U.S. Congressional study of alternative cancer therapies. She can be reached at
(800) 949-0090 and www.thehealthresource.com.

Jan

Jan the Accuser said:

Same ole same ole LIE from you.

Lying? You're accusing someone of LYING, again?
Why don't you ever PROVE your accusations?
Is it because they're FALSE accusations?

Like this one:

To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-m01.aol.com

Jan said:

Quoted message said:

From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to discredit
you by making insinuations about who you are or what your
motives may be.

Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have NEVER accused

anyone of

Quoted message said:

any such thing.

So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills -----

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-fn.aol.com

Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly
comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-fw.aol.com

Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-ct.aol.com

As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-mn.aol.com

As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact
he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

so Janny merely reposts the drivel

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and

you

Quoted message said:

sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Whoa! Are you Gymmy Boy's mother ???????????????

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 5:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Indeed, but there are other ways, never mind they are bebunked by the

*gang*.

Quoted message said:

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

Jan

geez Jan..

when YOU or some chelation quackster can PROVE and DOCUMENT with pre and

post

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chelation angiographic EVIDENCE that chelation can and does reduce
plaque....THEN go right ahead and jump into such discussions as this..

in the meantime..STFU..

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

Times are indeed changing--and all because of you. In our society, the
traditional structure of the doctor-patient relationship is being

transformed

Quoted message said:

by patients like yourselves who are no longer willing to assume the

passive

Quoted message said:

role, but choose instead to be "active patients," educating themselves

about

Quoted message said:

their condition so that they can become partners with their physicians in

the

Quoted message said:

management of their healthcare.
Herb of Corona del Mar, California, is typical of this new breed of

medical

Quoted message said:

consumer who fortify themselves with information, explore all treatment

options

Quoted message said:

thoroughly, and then commit themselves 100 percent to the treatments that

make

Quoted message said:

the most sense to them.

Because of a bone disease in his hips called avascular necrosis, . . . <

SNIP >

If Herb was accurately diagnosed, anyone with any medical education can see
that the rest of this post is [censored]. The word "avascular" means without
blood vessels...no blood, no nutrients, no oxygen supply to the hip joints.
The word "necrosis" means DEATH...the hip joints had DIED because of the
lack of blood supply. In case you haven't heard yet, Jan, DEATH is
irreversible--by conventional or alternative medicine. The only treatment
for avascular necrosis of the hips is surgical total hip replacement with
prosthetic implants.

George underwent unproven therapy with undocumented risks, rejecting PROVEN
therapy with DOCUMENTED risk/benefit data. Where's the wisdom in that? The
risk numbers quoted in this article may sound scary to the naive reader, but
what they really show is that MOST of the people who undergo carotid
endarterectomy benefit by improved circulation to the brain and reduced risk
of stroke. There is NO reason to believe that "chelation therapy" offers
similar benefits other that "it is touted" (not doubt by those who stand to
profit.)

--Rich

"Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<HVknc.55346$Ik.4188784@attbi_s53>...

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

>Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
>From: [email hidden] (Jan)
>Date: 5/8/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I beg your pardon Ms Liar.
>

so Janny merely reposts the drivel

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and

you

Quoted message said:

sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Whoa! Are you Gymmy Boy's mother ???????????????

Jan is just giving the NG an example of her "It's NEVER right to
belittle others" behavior. Oops, apparently "it's never right for
somebody other than Jan to belittle" is more like it.....

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 5/8/2004 11:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

(TonishaWallace) said:

As I get toward middle aged I'd like to clean my arteries out with a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

diet

Quoted message said:

and supplements and herbs. What would be the best things for me to

take?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Start exercising regularly, eat a lot less fat and more fruits and
vegetables, and cut down on your total caloric intake. That will do it
for most people.

Indeed, but there are other ways, never mind they are bebunked by the

*gang*.

Quoted message said:

http://ahha.org/articles/guthrie.htm

From this site:

"Intravenous chelation therapy is touted as a chemical method of cleaning
out arteries and removing plaque. [...] It is an unproven
therapy--time-consuming, and expensive..."

And that is the truth.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 11:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Janny says...

Quoted message said:

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and you
sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Quoted message said:

Same ole same ole LIE from you.

Your typical taking aprt the article is just what I predicted.

"taking apart the article??"

oh you mean explaining what Doppler is??

which by the way you nicely did NOT respond to...cuz you have no clue...

Quoted message said:

Others who are not [censored] trying to show their superiority might read it
with
an open mind,

"open mind?"" now that is a classic....

reading something which very very clearly is written for the dimwitted such as
Jan...then explaining WHY it is dimwitted...yeah..that is lack of open mind..

or evidence of knowledge of anatomy and physiology ....

yeah Janster...keep it up..

again...Doppler does not equate with angiography....doppler numbers CAN come
down if the pressure within is reduced..ie by the OTHER things this guy
changed..

chelation...?? did squat...

hawki.....

(Jan) said:

It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and you
sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Jan says it is ALWAYS wrong to belittle.
Indeed. Jan the inveterate liar and hypocrite strikes again.

Aloha,

Rich
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/8/2004 10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Cleaning Out Arteries
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/8/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I beg your pardon Ms Liar.

so Janny merely reposts the drivel

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and you
sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Jan, I thought you said it was always wrong to belittle. Perhaps you can
tell me how calling someone a "cold [censored] of a nurse" is not belittling.
If you can't explain why it is OK for you to call people such things but
not OK for others to use such terms, then you are indeed a hypocrite.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Michele) said:

"Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<HVknc.55346$Ik.4188784@attbi_s53>...

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and

you

Quoted message said:

sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Whoa! Are you Gymmy Boy's mother ???????????????

Jan is just giving the NG an example of her "It's NEVER right to
belittle others" behavior. Oops, apparently "it's never right for
somebody other than Jan to belittle" is more like it.....

Quite correct. Jan always considers herself justified in her belittling,
but never considers criticism of her or her allies to be justified. Her
double standard is so blatant as to be laughable.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Orac said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Jan) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In your opinion. It certainly wasn't drivel to those who were helped, and you
sure are one cold [censored] of a nurse, who likes to belittle and call others
success dimwitted.

Jan, I thought you said it was always wrong to belittle. Perhaps you can
tell me how calling someone a "cold [censored] of a nurse" is not belittling.

Cue Jan to say that the truth is not belittling. Just watch.

And since Jan Drew always considers herself to be truthful (or at
least claims she is truthful) she never considers herself to belittle
anyone.

Quoted message said:

If you can't explain why it is OK for you to call people such things but
not OK for others to use such terms, then you are indeed a hypocrite.

Alas, that ark is still in Jan's eye. I would suggest a good
ophthalmologist but Jan is in too much denial.

Aloha,

Rich

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The best defense to logic is ignorance