Civil War : Ullrich & Goodefroot

It's rather disturbing, from the perspective of hoping JU can win the Tdf, that he only speaks with Godefroot twice a year on the phone, if that. Bruyneel speaks to LA almost every day, including during the off-season, in addition to getting info on LA's progress from Carmichael, etc. They are plotting and discussing things from the day of the tour route is announced (or before, to recruit). :p

This could grow into a complicated situation.

Ullrich has no contract with Godefroot.

Godefroot has a contract with T-Mobile International (the sponsor), and Ullrich has another contract with T-Mobile International. Through this special contract Pevenage (whom Gedefroot despises) is paid, also a mechanic (Ullrich's brother) and a physiotherapeut.

If Godefroot and Ullrich disagree, the topic will immedeatly become a sponsor issue. Godefroot is not Ullrich's boss.

Since both Godefroot and Ullrich have had bad press in Germany lately, it is uncertain how it would unfold. But in the long run, it is Ullrich in whom the sponsor is really interested.

HuckFinn said:

This could grow into a complicated situation.

Ullrich has no contract with Godefroot.

Godefroot has a contract with T-Mobile International (the sponsor), and Ullrich has another contract with T-Mobile International. Through this special contract Pevenage (whom Gedefroot despises) is paid, also a mechanic (Ullrich's brother) and a physiotherapeut.

If Godefroot and Ullrich disagree, the topic will immedeatly become a sponsor issue. Godefroot is not Ullrich's boss.

Since both Godefroot and Ullrich have had bad press in Germany lately, it is uncertain how it would unfold. But in the long run, it is Ullrich in whom the sponsor is really interested.

I said it before and I will say it again, Ullrich should not have gone back "home" to Mobile.

It was obvious that Goodefroot and Pevenage (Ullrich's personal trainer) had
fallen out from the previous debacle.
They do not speak to each other.
Yet when Ullrich re-signed to Mobile, he insisted that Pevenage be accomodated as well.
So how can a management team work together if their dispute was never resolved ?

I said it during the TDF that Ullrich was being knifed by his team management.
Kloden was seemingly told to go after LA when his leader was in trouble in
La Mongie : and Kloden left JU there on the mountain.
Kloden was following orders but what message did this send out ?
It could be argued that JU should not have gotten in to trouble at La Mongie
but excepting this, is it right for a team leader to be left on a mountain alone ?
No.

Goodefroot is the problem - I've said it before and I will say it again.
Mobile need to make a choice, either back JU and fire Goodefroot.
if they back Goodefroot - Ullrich will have to make another move.

If Mobile back Goodefroot, Ullrich needs to get away from Mobile because Goodefroot will insist on continually selecting "my good friends (post-buy date riders - my words) - Erik "forty shades of green" Zabel and Ralf Aldag".
With due respect to Zabel and Aldag and Ivanoc and Nardello and Botero,
they were passengers on the ship while USPS full crew were backing LA.

The only person who was truly devoted to Jan was Guerini. But one Guerini cannot go against a surging-in-the-mountains Hincapie and Landis and a very strong Ace, and a decent Noval, even when Chechu and Beltran were not in top top form in the mountains relative to past years.

JU must demand that Godefroot recruit more helpers in the mountains.

limerickman said:

I said it before and I will say it again, Ullrich should not have gone back "home" to Mobile.

It was obvious that Goodefroot and Pevenage (Ullrich's personal trainer) had
fallen out from the previous debacle.
They do not speak to each other.
Yet when Ullrich re-signed to Mobile, he insisted that Pevenage be accomodated as well.
So how can a management team work together if their dispute was never resolved ?

I said it during the TDF that Ullrich was being knifed by his team management.
Kloden was seemingly told to go after LA when his leader was in trouble in
La Mongie : and Kloden left JU there on the mountain.
Kloden was following orders but what message did this send out ?
It could be argued that JU should not have gotten in to trouble at La Mongie
but excepting this, is it right for a team leader to be left on a mountain alone ?
No.

Goodefroot is the problem - I've said it before and I will say it again.
Mobile need to make a choice, either back JU and fire Goodefroot.
if they back Goodefroot - Ullrich will have to make another move.

If Mobile back Goodefroot, Ullrich needs to get away from Mobile because Goodefroot will insist on continually selecting "my good friends (post-buy date riders - my words) - Erik "forty shades of green" Zabel and Ralf Aldag".
With due respect to Zabel and Aldag and Ivanoc and Nardello and Botero,
they were passengers on the ship while USPS full crew were backing LA.

I couldn't agree more.

But that is the sport's aspect. There is also a monetary aspect. The sponsor pays Ullrich now 2,500,000 Euros a year. It would be hard to find another team able or willing to pay similar. CSC wasn't (and did not want Pevenage, too).

On the other hand - Ullrich has already earned more than enough for the rest of his life and does not seem to be a big spender. He could have given Pevenage some of his own money and move to CSC anyway. It would have been very interesting in this year's tour.

(I think Ullrich sticks to Pevenage because Pevenage gave up everything following Ullrich when Ullrich was sacked.)

With all respect to Pavenage, he's not a particularly good strategist (neither is Godefroot). On LA's team, you have one of the most brilliant DS of all time -- someone as hard-working, detail-oriented, paranoid (in the best possible sense of the term), cunning and ruthless as LA. Somehow who has thought of every small detail, such as pre-clearing his car with Leblanc to follow LA more closely along Alpe d'Huez so that by-standers would perceive a larger mass coming through and give LA more room. Someone who has recruited brilliantly (sometimes controversially, e.g., Azevedo was underestimated as a replacement for Heras by most outside of USPS).

limerickman said:

I said it before and I will say it again, Ullrich should not have gone back "home" to Mobile.

It was obvious that Goodefroot and Pevenage (Ullrich's personal trainer) had
fallen out from the previous debacle.
They do not speak to each other.
Yet when Ullrich re-signed to Mobile, he insisted that Pevenage be accomodated as well.
So how can a management team work together if their dispute was never resolved ?

I said it during the TDF that Ullrich was being knifed by his team management.
Kloden was seemingly told to go after LA when his leader was in trouble in
La Mongie : and Kloden left JU there on the mountain.
Kloden was following orders but what message did this send out ?
It could be argued that JU should not have gotten in to trouble at La Mongie
but excepting this, is it right for a team leader to be left on a mountain alone ?
No.

Goodefroot is the problem - I've said it before and I will say it again.
Mobile need to make a choice, either back JU and fire Goodefroot.
if they back Goodefroot - Ullrich will have to make another move.

If Mobile back Goodefroot, Ullrich needs to get away from Mobile because Goodefroot will insist on continually selecting "my good friends (post-buy date riders - my words) - Erik "forty shades of green" Zabel and Ralf Aldag".
With due respect to Zabel and Aldag and Ivanoc and Nardello and Botero,
they were passengers on the ship while USPS full crew were backing LA.

I couldn't agree with you more that it was a big mistake for Ullrich to return to T-Moblie. I think that his perfomance in the TdF this year really sealed it! Ullrich needs to get free of Goodefroot. Maybe it would be best for Ullrich to get away from T-Mobile permanantly. I'd love to see him move to CSC and work with Bjarne Riis.

I also that agree with you that Goodefroot's selections for T-Mobile's TdF squad didn't do Jan one bit of good. There was a lot of baggage on that team this year. The fact that Vinokourov was injured and Cadel Evans was left off the team proved to be huge factors in Ullrich's disappointing perfomance this year in my opinion.

Lim, what's the "forty shades of green" reference that you often use? Is it an expression that's used in Ireland? I've never heard it before here in the US. :o

musette said:

With all respect to Pavenage, he's not a particularly good strategist (neither is Godefroot).

Again I agree. Riis is much smarter.

HuckFinn said:

I couldn't agree more.

But that is the sport's aspect. There is also a monetary aspect. The sponsor pays Ullrich now 2,500,000 Euros a year. It would be hard to find another team able or willing to pay similar. CSC wasn't (and did not want Pevenage, too).

On the other hand - Ullrich has already earned more than enough for the rest of his life and does not seem to be a big spender. He could have given Pevenage some of his own money and move to CSC anyway. It would have been very interesting in this year's tour.

(I think Ullrich sticks to Pevenage because Pevenage gave up everything following Ullrich when Ullrich was sacked.)

Yes Ullrich did say that Pevenage stuck with him.
And you've got to respect their mutual loyalty.
But Ullrich has got to make a decision.
I didn't back Ullrich to win the TDF simply because I knew that the setup at Mobile was unworkable and so it is now proving.
(I also said that LA wouldn't win - so at least i was 50% right !).

This is a crucial time : the door is starting to close on JU's chances of
winning the TDF.
A new generation are coming along (Basso, Cunega etc) and they won't be stopped.
I think if he had a team and management backing him that he could run LA very close in the TDF.
Look at the Mobile setup of 1997 : they won the team classement, overall GC and green jersey competition.
He needs a setup like that.
What has been said by Goodefroot cannot be undone - even if they publicly
kiss and makeup.
I do not believe that Goodefroot is right for JU.

Part of the question is that JU should demand it of T-Mobile. LA doesn't need to demand it of Bruyneel because Bruyneel is *anticipating* what LA needs and knows what LA needs and only cares about those needs. JU needs to demand complete team support of him, although that is harder now with Kloden around (assuming Kloden re-signs with T-Mobile).

JU needs to demand things, when he is not getting his needs met. He has to demand that because he is the star of T-M still and he has to get what he wants! 😠

I feel sorry for the T-Mob boys for not having a "hands-on" engaging sportif like Riis or Bruyneel. After reading about how Team CSC operates, especially the creative ways that Riis brings the team together, it made me admire them that much more.

And why does Jan insist on having his own separate trainer/mechanic/ physiotherapist? Doesn't that isolate him from the rest of the team? Is he a prima donna, or is this a form of resentment aimed at Godefroot?

I wonder what the team will be like with the return of Vinokourov. Now that the domestiqes like Kloden have been overstepping their leader, I hope this means that Vinokourov will get a chance to do his own thing within the team because, imho, he's capable of everything Jan is plus more... He can accelerate very fast in the mountains whereas Ullrich can't.

gunnar_roadie said:

I feel sorry for the T-Mob boys for not having a "hands-on" engaging sportif like Riis or Bruyneel. After reading about how Team CSC operates, especially the creative ways that Riis brings the team together, it made me admire them that much more.

And why does Jan insist on having his own separate trainer/mechanic/ physiotherapist? Doesn't that isolate him from the rest of the team? Is he a prima donna, or is this a form of resentment aimed at Godefroot?

I wonder what the team will be like with the return of Vinokourov. Now that the domestiqes like Kloden have been overstepping their leader, I hope this means that Vinokourov will get a chance to do his own thing within the team because, imho, he's capable of everything Jan is plus more... He can accelerate very fast in the mountains whereas Ullrich can't.

Gunnar,
JU had a damaged knee a few seasons back and was off the bike.
During that time he was caught using amphetamines in Christmas 2001, if I recall properly.
Seems he popped a pill in a nightclub.

For his stupidity, Telekom (as they were the known) let him go _ Goodefroot
booted him out.
Pevenage who worked with Goodefroot for years - disagreed with Goodefroot
and aligned himself with Ullrich.
Ullrich went off and joined Bianchi and had a great 2003 TDF.
Telekom offered him his place back - and Ully said he'd come back but only if
Pevenage did as well.
Goodefroot said that it was up to Ully to employ whoever he wanted but that Pevenage would not be part of the formal Mobile team : he could have access
to ully but no one else.
Also Pevenage would not be consulted on team strategies either.

So you have a rider with his own personal trainer - who doesn't talk to the manager and has no input to the team in general.
You have a cyclist who only talks to Goodefroot twice a year (LOL, LOL)
and you have a team being direct by Goodefroot at the TDF supposedly helping a rider who he (goodefroot) doesn't talk to (LOl LOL).

No wonder they knifed Ully in the TDF !

limerickman said:

Gunnar,
JU had a damaged knee a few seasons back and was off the bike.
During that time he was caught using amphetamines in Christmas 2001, if I recall properly.
Seems he popped a pill in a nightclub.

For his stupidity, Telekom (as they were the known) let him go _ Goodefroot
booted him out.
Pevenage who worked with Goodefroot for years - disagreed with Goodefroot
and aligned himself with Ullrich.
Ullrich went off and joined Bianchi and had a great 2003 TDF.
Telekom offered him his place back - and Ully said he'd come back but only if
Pevenage did as well.
Goodefroot said that it was up to Ully to employ whoever he wanted but that Pevenage would not be part of the formal Mobile team : he could have access
to ully but no one else.
Also Pevenage would not be consulted on team strategies either.

So you have a rider with his own personal trainer - who doesn't talk to the manager and has no input to the team in general.
You have a cyclist who only talks to Goodefroot twice a year (LOL, LOL)
and you have a team being direct by Goodefroot at the TDF supposedly helping a rider who he (goodefroot) doesn't talk to (LOl LOL).

No wonder they knifed Ully in the TDF !

Hoorah! Another Ullrich excuse.

Dermo said:

Hoorah! Another Ullrich excuse.

Clown - it helps to read the question Gunnar posted

"And why does Jan insist on having his own separate trainer/mechanic/ physiotherapist? Doesn't that isolate him from the rest of the team? Is he a prima donna, or is this a form of resentment aimed at Godefroot? "

I provided Gunnar with the background as to why JU has his won trainer etc.
I did not offer it as an excuse.

Now if you haven't got the ability to read and understand - I can't help you.
But blowing off like you have done since you joined this site is only making you look like a fool.

limerickman said:

Clown - it helps to read the question Gunnar posted

"And why does Jan insist on having his own separate trainer/mechanic/ physiotherapist? Doesn't that isolate him from the rest of the team? Is he a prima donna, or is this a form of resentment aimed at Godefroot? "

I provided Gunnar with the background as to why JU has his won trainer etc.
I did not offer it as an excuse.

Now if you haven't got the ability to read and understand - I can't help you.
But blowing off like you have done since you joined this site is only making you look like a fool.

You read again.

"No wonder they knifed Ully in the TDF !"

Another lame Ullrich excuse?

I hope Jan seriously thinks about switching to CSC and working for Bjarne. They have a history together and I'm sure they'd enjoy working together again. I'm sure Riis can give Jan what he needs, what he hasn't been getting at T-Mo.

Dermo said:

You read again.

"No wonder they knifed Ully in the TDF !"

Another lame Ullrich excuse?

Leaving Ully by himself on La Mongie - is that being supported by his team ?

While we're here, I'm going home to Terenure this weekend - do you cycle at all ?

gunnar_roadie said:

I hope Jan seriously thinks about switching to CSC and working for Bjarne. They have a history together and I'm sure they'd enjoy working together again. I'm sure Riis can give Jan what he needs, what he hasn't been getting at T-Mo.

Riis did offer a place to Jan Ullrich in 2002 (when the team was CSC-Tiscali)
after Ully got fired by Telekom.
Seemingly, Ully demanded a huge salary (he has been paid a huge amount money throughout his career) and he demanded that Pevanage be hired.
Whatever about the money - Riis insisted that he would only sign Ully and not the rest of his entourage.

Looking at how Bianchi came to rescue Ully for the 2003 season and how the TDF waived their rules to let Bianchi compete, he has received a lot of help
- which would indicate that people do have faith in him (Felice Gimondi
TDF winner 1965 - basically got Bianchi to write a blank cheque to Ully in
April 2003).
Which made Ullrich;s betrayal of Bianchi all the more worse because he left
Bianchi to go back to Mobile (he wants to cycle with a german team !).

I think Ully needs to get away from Mobile - perhaps Gerolsteiner or CSC.
Gerolstein have Uddo Bolts on board (he was a member of the 1997 Telekom
super team which steam rolled the TDF that year) or as you say CSC and Riis.

Cyclingnews reports:

"Ullrich said his Tour had been derailed by illness. 'I couldn't attack the yellow jersey. I was ill, with a fever. Normally I should have spent a week in bed. To attack Lance Armstrong was impossible, but if I had been healthy, things would have been different.' Ullrich said he had picked up an illness from his one-year-old daughter. Ullrich added, 'I will clear up what [Godefroot] said. If he says it to my face I will take the appropriate steps.' T-Mobile team spokesman Olaf Ludwig said he did not know what Ullrich meant by this. 'I don't know whether he means that generally or personally,' said Ludwig. 'The situation is this: Godefroot gmbh has a contract with T-Mobile and Jan is under contract until 2006.'"