Cioni's high hematocrit

[gym gravity]

Brenton James wrote:
> It is a risk worth taking when you know you can saline solution down to
> under 50%... quite useful when you can go over 50% for a race without
> failing an EPO test
>
Yeah, but why wait to fail a test to get all the paperwork done?

Hermida is in the same boat, from what he said, but he's not getting any
breaks. Just like Cioni, he's had a 'crit that fluctuates around 50 and
he's been trying to get a certificate for years. He said he's been
denied because it wasn't consistently 50. Maybe there's more to his
story. Maybe his fluctuations are more dramatic, and suspicious. I've
said it before, what's to stop a rider from boosting and racking up a
collection of 'crit tests over the course of two years to present as
data for a T.U.E. or whatever they call it? I would guess its the
infrequent low 'crit reading that might pop up.

The concept of a hematologic passport (as part of an international pro
license, cost covered by the rider or team) is looking better and better
each day. Out the door with the 50% test. Accumulate longitudinal
blood profiles with random epo tests and force each rider to stay within
his genetic means.

 

[Scott Hendricks]

Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Badger South <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I give blood now and then to try and reduce my iron load (men get this
> > b/c they don't menstruate),
>
> Well, MOST don't. There are a few exceptions, of course...

Just 'cause we don't do it doesn't mean we don't suffer from it.

 

[Scott Hendricks]

Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Badger South <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I give blood now and then to try and reduce my iron load (men get this
> > b/c they don't menstruate),
>
> Well, MOST don't. There are a few exceptions, of course...

Just 'cause we don't do it doesn't mean we don't suffer from it.

 

[Scott Hendricks]

Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Badger South <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I give blood now and then to try and reduce my iron load (men get this
> > b/c they don't menstruate),
>
> Well, MOST don't. There are a few exceptions, of course...

Just 'cause we don't do it doesn't mean we don't suffer from it!

 

[Warren]

"gym gravity" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brenton James wrote:
> > It is a risk worth taking when you know you can saline solution down to
> > under 50%... quite useful when you can go over 50% for a race without
> > failing an EPO test
> >
> Yeah, but why wait to fail a test to get all the paperwork done?
>
> Hermida is in the same boat, from what he said, but he's not getting any
> breaks. Just like Cioni, he's had a 'crit that fluctuates around 50 and
> he's been trying to get a certificate for years. He said he's been
> denied because it wasn't consistently 50. Maybe there's more to his
> story. Maybe his fluctuations are more dramatic, and suspicious. I've
> said it before, what's to stop a rider from boosting and racking up a
> collection of 'crit tests over the course of two years to present as
> data for a T.U.E. or whatever they call it? I would guess its the
> infrequent low 'crit reading that might pop up.
>
> The concept of a hematologic passport (as part of an international pro
> license, cost covered by the rider or team) is looking better and better
> each day. Out the door with the 50% test. Accumulate longitudinal
> blood profiles with random epo tests and force each rider to stay within
> his genetic means.

From the reading it seems that Cioni underwent much more than the usual test
for hematocrit as a means to show that his levels are normally in the range
he says they are.

-WG

 

[gwhite]

pedalchick wrote:
>
> Tom Kunich Wrote:
> > "Badger South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > When you say training at altitude, what do you mean? IOW, I could go
> > train
> > > at 2400 to 3600ft elevation, on modest hills on the Blue Ridge
> > Parkway.
> > > Would that be an advantage over sealevel to any meaningful degree?
> >
> > No, you have to be over 5,000 feet and 6,000 is starters for most
> > people.
> >
> > > Guess I could try that and report back, next spring. I have a ride
> > > scheduled and could do a week or two in April/May.
> >
> > If you're training on the Blue Ridge Parkway expect to see improvements
> > that
> > have nothing to do with altitude - such as balls the size of
> > basketballs
> > after fighting the traffic.
>
> So, speaking of altitude training, us lowlanders with jobs can't just
> go to Colorado to live for the season.

I was thinking about living in Truckee and commuting to work (and riding) in
Auburn. That oughta do it, but it is a tough commute.

> Has anyone out there tried or
> know anything about this? http://www.go2altitude.com/p1.html
> Can you really sit on your ass watching TV and get a boost from this
> thing?

Yes.

> If so, I am so all about sitting on my ass in front of the TV -
> after training, of course, mind you.

Me too. I can relate.

> I mean, really, I will have to
> actually do *some* work, right?

You'll need to move the mask aside for sips of beer/wine.

 

[gwhite]

Warren wrote:
>
> "Badger South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > But, whoa, if yours is 48ish, cool. Did that involve altitude training?
> Any
> > baseline pre-biking levels?
>
> No, and no.

My understanding is that altitude tents don't necessarily increase hematocrit,
which is a concentration rating rather than an absolute quantity. I thought
they increase blood volume, which for a *given* concentration, would increase
the oxygen carrying capability due to greater absolute quantity of red blood
cells (rather than concentration itself). Do I recall this correctly, or close
to correct? I wonder if greater blood volume marginally helps the body cool
better too.

 

[gym gravity]

Warren wrote:
> "gym gravity" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Brenton James wrote:
>>
>>>It is a risk worth taking when you know you can saline solution down to
>>>under 50%... quite useful when you can go over 50% for a race without
>>>failing an EPO test
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, but why wait to fail a test to get all the paperwork done?
>>
>>Hermida is in the same boat, from what he said, but he's not getting any
>>breaks. Just like Cioni, he's had a 'crit that fluctuates around 50 and
>>he's been trying to get a certificate for years. He said he's been
>>denied because it wasn't consistently 50. Maybe there's more to his
>>story. Maybe his fluctuations are more dramatic, and suspicious. I've
>>said it before, what's to stop a rider from boosting and racking up a
>>collection of 'crit tests over the course of two years to present as
>>data for a T.U.E. or whatever they call it? I would guess its the
>>infrequent low 'crit reading that might pop up.
>>
>>The concept of a hematologic passport (as part of an international pro
>>license, cost covered by the rider or team) is looking better and better
>>each day. Out the door with the 50% test. Accumulate longitudinal
>>blood profiles with random epo tests and force each rider to stay within
>>his genetic means.
>
>
> From the reading it seems that Cioni underwent much more than the usual test
> for hematocrit as a means to show that his levels are normally in the range
> he says they are.
>
> -WG
>
>
Here is a real superstar:

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7186

> Here are Christoph Sauser's blood values according to the testing of Swiss Olympic Committee:
> 1st date, 25th November 2002:
> Hematocrit: 0.416
> Hemoglobine: 143
> Testosterone: 16.3
> Ferritine: 48
>
> 2nd date, 25th February 2003 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.416/ 0.42/ 0.414
> Hemoglobine: 139/ 139/ 139
> Testosterone: 8.7
> Ferritine: 66
>
> 3rd date, 20th May 2003 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.404/ 0.403/ 0.407
> Hemoglobine: 135/ 136/ 137
> Testosterone: 5.4
> Ferritine: 66
>
> 4th date, 27th August 2003 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.404/ 0.408/ 0.405
> Hemoglobine: 132/ 132/ 132
> Testosterone: 5.2
> Ferritine: 63
>
> 5th date, 17th November 2003 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.389/ 0.387/ 0.391
> Hemoglobine: 131/ 131/ 131
> Testosterone: 20.5
> Ferritine: 75
>
> 6th date, 5th March 2004 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.405/ 0.408/ 0.408
> Hemoglobine: 138/ 138/ 139
> Testosterone: 9
> Ferritine: 49
>
> 7th Date, 11th May 2004 (1st measuring/ 2nd measuring / 3rd measuring):
> Hematocrit: 0.392/ 0.392/ 0.393
> Hemoglobine: 132/ 132/ 132
> Testosterone: 7.6
> Ferritine: 43
>

 

[Warren]

"gwhite" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> pedalchick wrote:

> > So, speaking of altitude training, us lowlanders with jobs can't just
> > go to Colorado to live for the season.
>
> I was thinking about living in Truckee and commuting to work (and riding)
in
> Auburn. That oughta do it, but it is a tough commute.
>

You want to sleep on the west side of the mountains, near Soda Springs at
7000 feet (Truckee is only 5500'). Then it's only a 50-minute commute on the
freeway to Auburn (1200').

-WG

 

[Warren]

"gym gravity" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Here is a real superstar:
>
> http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7186
>
> > Here are Christoph Sauser's blood values according to the testing of
Swiss Olympic Committee:
> > 1st date, 25th November 2002:
> > Hematocrit: 0.416
> > Hemoglobine: 143
> > Testosterone: 16.3
> > Ferritine: 48

Probably more evidence that high hematocrit is not a critical determinant of
success or failure in the sport.

-WG

 

[J. Matt]

> If you're training on the Blue Ridge Parkway expect to see improvements that
> have nothing to do with altitude - such as balls the size of basketballs
> after fighting the traffic.

Actually, other than a month in the fall, the parkway traffic from
Cherokee to Mount Mitchell at least, is mostly light.

And, in the winter, there are many days where the parkway is closed to
motor vehicles due to isolated snow patches in the higher elevations
or even in just a few cutouts, making it a cyclist's paradise (with
proper clothing).

In the fall we ride Madison County, leaving the parkway to Grandpa
Coke Bottle and the Blue Hair Brigade (c).

JM