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Cholesterol monitor

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
19 June 2004
Last activity
19 June 2004
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Dee Randall
Posts
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  1. I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1 yr. 2
    months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for myself) that
    the hearty stomach spasms I was having happened when I took
    Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor. When I took Aciphex in the
    morning and Lipitor at night, I did not have the spasms. One
    might ask why I didn’t continue taking Lipitor and Aciphex
    separately. However, my thinking is that any drug that will
    cause me spasms of this magnitude is a drug that I am not
    interested in continuing. In fairness, my doctor did check
    to see if there was any reaction between the two drugs, but
    none was listed.

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week down-
    time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side effects
    of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a believer in
    tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test until 2 months
    after I have started Zocor.

    In April 2003 my cholesterol was 254; then in January 2004,
    after taking Lipitor, it was 131. This January blood test
    was not done at her initiation, but only done as a result
    of a lost blood test by a yearly physical. She would not
    have been doing another blood test until April 2004, but
    none was done as the January 2004 was available. She
    believes that lipid tests should only be done once a year
    because cholestrol takes so long to change. When I
    suggested buying a cholesterol monitor, she said that I
    would be throwing my money away.

    I cannot change doctors at this time as I am dependent upon
    her for other things. The last time I changed, it took a
    while to find another doctor because doctors don’t seem to
    take over-age patients.

    My question: Has anyone used a cholesterol monitor and can
    give me advice regarding its use. Also any other comments
    will be helpful to me.

    Thanks so very much.

    Dee

  2. "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1
    yr. 2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for
    myself) that the hearty stomach spasms I was having
    happened when I took Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor.
    When I took Aciphex in the morning and Lipitor at night,
    I did not have the spasms. One might ask why I didn’t
    continue taking Lipitor and Aciphex separately. However,
    my thinking is that any drug that will cause me spasms of
    this magnitude is a drug that I am not interested in
    continuing. In fairness, my doctor did check to see if
    there was any reaction between the two drugs, but none
    was listed.

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week
    down-time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side
    effects of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a
    believer in tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test
    until 2 months after I have started Zocor.

    In April 2003 my cholesterol was 254; then in January
    2004, after taking Lipitor, it was 131. This January
    blood test was not done at her initiation, but only done
    as a result of a lost blood test by a yearly physical.
    She would not have been doing another blood test until
    April 2004, but none was done as the January 2004 was
    available. She believes that lipid tests should only be
    done once a year because cholestrol takes so long to
    change. When I suggested buying a cholesterol monitor,
    she said that I would be throwing my money away.

    I cannot change doctors at this time as I am dependent
    upon her for other things. The last time I changed, it
    took a while to find another doctor because doctors don’t
    seem to take over-age patients.

    My question: Has anyone used a cholesterol monitor and can
    give me advice regarding its use. Also any other comments
    will be helpful to me.

    Thanks so very much.

    Dee

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either. But I suspect at some places, no,
    if you are willing to pay for it.

    Bill

  3. On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:22:09 -0400, "Dee Randall"

    deedoveyatshenteldotnet said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1 yr.
    2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for myself)
    that the hearty stomach spasms I was having happened when I
    took Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor. When I took Aciphex
    in the morning and Lipitor at night, I did not have the
    spasms. One might ask why I didn’t continue taking Lipitor
    and Aciphex separately. However, my thinking is that any
    drug that will cause me spasms of this magnitude is a drug
    that I am not interested in continuing. In fairness, my
    doctor did check to see if there was any reaction between
    the two drugs, but none was listed.

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week down-
    time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side effects
    of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a believer in
    tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test until 2
    months after I have started Zocor.

    Perhaps you mean she's not a believer in excessive tests?
    Having blood chemistry 6-8 weeks out from starting is not at
    all unusual. Fairly standard, actually.

    Quoted message said:


    In April 2003 my cholesterol was 254; then in January
    2004, after taking Lipitor, it was 131. This January blood
    test was not done at her initiation, but only done as a
    result of a lost blood test by a yearly physical. She
    would not have been doing another blood test until April
    2004, but none was done as the January 2004 was available.
    She believes that lipid tests should only be done once a
    year because cholestrol takes so long to change. When I
    suggested buying a cholesterol monitor, she said that I
    would be throwing my money away.

    I would tend to agree. Obviously, you repsonded well to
    Lipitor as far as lowering cholesterol. Blood profiles flag
    items outside of the reference range, so if blood chemistry
    shows, for example, elevated liver functions (ALT & AST)
    then it should be drawn more than once per year - maybe two
    or three times to track elevations or decrease. Otherwise,
    once a year is normal.

    L.

    Quoted message said:


    I cannot change doctors at this time as I am dependent upon
    her for other things. The last time I changed, it took a
    while to find another doctor because doctors don’t seem to
    take over-age patients.

    My question: Has anyone used a cholesterol monitor and can
    give me advice regarding its use. Also any other comments
    will be helpful to me.

    Thanks so very much.

    Dee

  4. "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    My question: Has anyone used a cholesterol monitor and can
    give me advice regarding its use. Also any other comments
    will be helpful to me.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks so very much.

    Dee

    Dee

    My first cholesterol test after starting Lipitor was done on
    the morning of the third day of medicating. My level had
    dropped more than 40 percent. This was a pharmacy in-house
    test, done spur of the moment, before my usual 11 a.m
    breakfast. The next morning that reading was confirmed by
    proper laboratory blood work, fasting 14 hours.

    CK and liver function tests are not good diagnostic tests
    for statin induced myopathy. Read the following. Dr.
    Phillips is the primary researcher in statin induced
    mitochondrial myopathy.

    impostertrial.comphysician.htm "what is known
    about statin associated myopathy with normal ck?"

    Why are you lowering your cholesterol? It has not been
    proven effective in women. You may want to print this out
    and take it to your doctor. It is from
    www.medicalconsumers.org. (It's not published yet so can't
    give url).

    There is another good article for your doctor at this url:
    medicalconsumers.orgTHEWOMENANDHEARTDISEA
    SEAWARENESSCAMPAIGN.html

    DO CHOLESTEROL-LOWERING DRUGS BENEFIT WOMEN?

    By Maryann Napoli

    Many doctors have come to believe that the cholesterol-
    lowering drugs called statins (Lipitor, Zocor, Pravachol,
    Mevacor, Crestor) are safer than low-dose daily aspirin.
    That becomes apparent whenever statins are featured in the
    media as a wonder drug for the prevention of heart disease.
    In fact, there's a growing consensus among cardiologists
    that all adults should take a statin whether or not they
    are at high risk.

    Yet women have been underrepresented in the major clinical
    trials in which people with and without heart disease were
    randomly assigned to take a statin or a placebo (dummy
    pill) every day for several years. Women made up less than
    one-third of all the study participants. Put that together
    with the fact that women under the age of 65 years have a
    low rate of heart attack and stroke. Add this disturbing
    bit of news from University of British Columbia researchers
    who conducted a thorough review of the five prevention
    clinical trials: only two of the five trials released their
    data regarding the serious adverse effects* suffered by the
    study participants who were taking statins. Working with
    what they had, that is, the data from only two of the
    statin trials, the researchers found that statins did not
    prolong life for men or women. Worse, the benefit of taking
    statins (a reduced rate of non-fatal heart attacks and
    stroke) was offset by an increase in the serious adverse
    events. Until all the statin trials release their serious
    adverse effects data, the public will not know whether
    these drugs are safer than low-dose aspirin.

    The sparse information that people receive about
    cholesterol treatment was unintentionally but aptly
    illustrated recently by one of the country's top medical
    journals. The Journal of the American Medical Association,
    or JAMA, regularly publishes a "patient page," which
    amounts to a layman's translation of one of the more
    important papers published in each issue.

    The May 12, 2004 issue of JAMA contained a review of all
    trials in which women with high cholesterol had been
    randomly assigned to take a drug or a placebo. (Most of
    the trials involved a statin.) Judith M.E. Walsh, MD, MPH,
    and Michael Pignone, MD, MPH conducted the review. Their
    conclusion: For women without heart disease, drugs did not
    prolong life or reduce the odds of dying of heart disease.
    The drug may reduce non-fatal cardiac events (heart
    attack, stroke, etc.), but "current evidence is
    insufficient to determine this conclusively." For women
    with heart disease, drugs do not affect mortality but will
    reduce non-fatal events.

    Turn to the patient page in the same issue of JAMA, and
    none of this important information can be found. Instead,
    six sentences are devoted to statins explaining how they
    work; the need for regular lab tests to check for statin-
    induced liver damage; the possibility of muscle damage,
    etc. The reader will find nothing about the drugs'
    effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) in preventing or
    treating heart disease. The rest of the page was given
    over to the usual information about exercise and smoking
    cessation. Worse, it has outdated information about the
    importance of a low-fat diet; despite the fact that a
    review of all relevant studies found that it has little
    effect on heart disease prevention (see below). The
    patient page is intended for physicians to photocopy and
    give to their patients.

    And what about the unreported serious adverse effects of
    statin drugs? Not a mention in the patient page, of
    course, but there it was in the "comments" section of
    the JAMA article. At the end of their review, Drs. Walsh
    and Pignone discuss possible explanations for why
    statins do not prolong life for women with heart
    disease. The drugs reduce the odds of dying of heart
    disease, but that benefit is canceled by a higher rate
    of death from other causes.

    "Possible explanations include chance, the limitation that
    not all studies reported both heart disease and total
    mortality... Another potential explanation might be an
    increase in a competing cause of mortality, for example, an
    increase in hemorrhagic stroke with cholesterol-lowering
    therapy. However, information on the causes of non-heart
    disease mortality is not available for all the trials, so
    this possibility cannot be proven. [emphasis added]
    Publication of cause-specific mortality for many of the
    larger trials could help to clarify the association between
    cholesterol-lowering therapy and total mortality."

    There you have it, the full story is not yet available on
    the safety of cholesterol-lowering drugs, though these
    trials were published years ago. Traditionally, researchers
    design trials to answer specific questions. In this case:
    Does this drug reduce the rate of heart attacks and strokes
    or the rate of cardiovascular death? But the drug itself
    might cause deaths from other causes, and as Drs. Walsh and
    Pignone wrote, not all studies reported deaths from other
    causes. These concerns are relevant to men, as well.

    As for the doctors who say that statins are safer than
    aspirin, they might one day be proven correct. But it took
    more than 100 years to get the full story on aspirin. (In
    fact, there might be more to learn.) Gastrointestinal
    bleeding and rarely, hemorrhagic stroke are both
    potentially fatal side effects of chronic use of aspirin,
    even at low doses. And the dangers of giving aspirin to
    children who have flu or chicken pox have only been known
    to be associated with the rare risk of Reye's syndrome for
    less than 30 years.

    For More Information:

    -Go to the Web site, sponsored by the above-mentioned
    University of British Columbia researchers (www.ti.ubc.ca).
    In the archives, locate Therapeutics Letter No. 48 "Do
    statins have a role in primary prevention?

    -Go to the archives of the British Medical Journal at
    www.bmj.com for the review of all studies assessing the
    heart disease prevention benefit of reduced dietary fat
    intake. Find the March 31, 2001 issue featuring "Dietary fat
    intake and prevention of cardiovascular disease: systematic
    review" by Lee Hooper et al.

    --
    *Serious adverse effects are any untoward medical occurrences that
    result in death, are life-threatening, require hospitalization or
    prolongation of hospitalization, or results in persistent or
    significant liability.

    Maryann Napoli is the associate director of the Center for Medical
    Consumers in New York City.

  5. "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1 yr.
    2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for myself)
    that the hearty stomach spasms I was having happened when
    I took Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor.

    In my experience the spasms were caused by the Lipitor. I
    was taking no other drugs at the time. I continued taking
    Lipitor in spite of dreadful side effects, including
    myopathy, when after 7 months I was diagnosed with
    pancreatitis, swollen liver and gall bladder disease--all
    with normal CK.

    I could not sleep without being in a sitting position
    because of acid reflux and had to stop eating around 4 p.m.
    in order to recline for a few hours at midnight. I suffered
    insomnia, not sleeping more than 3 hours a night, in two
    shifts. I also developed a helicobactor pylori ulcer, which
    I had never had an before statins nor have I had since
    stopping statins.

    These terrible gastrointestinal side effects of Lipitor (on
    Pfizer's side effects list, not shown to be caused by
    Lipitor in clinical trials but also not shown NOT TO BE
    CAUSED by placebo or incidence) went away within a few weeks
    to a month of stopping Lipitor.

    Quoted message said:

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week
    down-time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side
    effects of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a
    believer in tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test
    until 2 months after I have started Zocor.

    Side effects of all Zocor and all statins may include memory
    loss, language difficulties, thinking and learning problems
    and transient global amnesia. Read here for the story of
    former US astronaut and flight surgeon Duane Graveline MD
    who experienced these side effects while on Lipitor:

    spacedoc.netspacedoc.net

    Another recent story on statin induced memory loss from CBS
    News: cbsnews.comeveningnews
    /main619351.shtml

    She believes

    Quoted message said:

    that lipid tests should only be done once a year because
    cholestrol takes so long to change.

    Cholesterol did not take long to change in me.

    Zee

  6. "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Correction: meant to say, "...not shown NOT TO BE CAUSED
    by Lipitor.)

    One other side effect I had, from Baycol, which has not gone
    away is permanent vision damage. This type of vision damage
    which I suffered was shown in the clincial trials for
    Baycol, and the information suppressed. The information and
    came out in a Baycol trial after the drug had been recalled
    on August 8 2001.

    Zee

  7. Quoted message said:

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either. But I suspect at some places,
    no, if you are willing to pay for it.

    Bill

    The answer is Yes, you do need a prescription.

    L.

  8. "listener" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:22:09 -0400, "Dee Randall"
    <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:


    She believes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that lipid tests should only be done once a year because
    cholestrol takes


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    long to change.

    Quoted message said:

    I would tend to agree. Obviously, you repsonded well to
    Lipitor as far as lowering cholesterol. Blood profiles
    flag items outside of the reference range, so if blood
    chemistry shows, for example, elevated liver functions
    (ALT & AST) then it should be drawn more than once per
    year - maybe two or three times to track elevations or
    decrease. Otherwise, once a year is normal.

    Thank you for your response.

    Zocor.com says

    “It is recommended that liver function tests be performed
    before the initiation of treatment, and thereafter when
    clinically indicated.”

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was explained that the liver
    portion of the cholesterol test is included in the
    cholesterol blood test. (I realize that this liver part of
    the test would not be included as a result on a cholesterol
    monitor). She believes that this liver results portion of
    the test is not needed either at the beginning of
    prescribing lipitor or zocor. If it is not taken at the
    beginning, how would one know how much it has risen since
    the beginning.

    Thanks

  9. It seems to me I heard somewhere that listener wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:22:09 -0400, "Dee Randall"
    <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1
    yr. 2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for
    myself) that the hearty stomach spasms I was having
    happened when I took Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor.
    When I took Aciphex in the morning and Lipitor at night,
    I did not have the spasms. One might ask why I didn’t
    continue taking Lipitor and Aciphex separately. However,
    my thinking is that any drug that will cause me spasms of
    this magnitude is a drug that I am not interested in
    continuing. In fairness, my doctor did check to see if
    there was any reaction between the two drugs, but none
    was listed.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week
    down-time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side
    effects of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a
    believer in tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test
    until 2 months after I have started Zocor.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps you mean she's not a believer in excessive tests?
    Having blood chemistry 6-8 weeks out from starting is not
    at all unusual. Fairly standard, actually.

    That's about the schedule my first cardiologist started me
    on. All the others (five so far in six years--I wear 'em out
    <G>*) gradually lengthened the interval when the liver
    results kept coming back normal. I'm now up to six month
    intervals, which I suspect will be the maximum.

    Considering the importance of liver function and the fact
    that so many things affect the liver ISTM any good doctor
    and any good patient would want to watch carefully for any
    unexpected or undesirable effects from newly prescribed
    medications. I hope Dee's doctor is following that plan.

    * Actually HMO related reasons.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  10. "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1
    yr. 2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for
    myself) that the hearty stomach


    spasms

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was having happened when I took Aciphex at bedtime
    with Lipitor.

    In my experience the spasms were caused by the Lipitor. I
    was taking no other drugs at the time. I continued taking
    Lipitor in spite of dreadful side effects, including
    myopathy, when after 7 months I was diagnosed with
    pancreatitis, swollen liver and gall bladder disease--all
    with normal CK.

    I could not sleep without being in a sitting position
    because of acid reflux and had to stop eating around 4
    p.m. in order to recline for a few hours at midnight. I
    suffered insomnia, not sleeping more than 3 hours a night,
    in two shifts. I also developed a helicobactor pylori
    ulcer, which I had never had an before statins nor have I
    had since stopping statins.

    These terrible gastrointestinal side effects of Lipitor
    (on Pfizer's side effects list, not shown to be caused by
    Lipitor in clinical trials but also not shown NOT TO BE
    CAUSED by placebo or incidence) went away within a few
    weeks to a month of stopping Lipitor.

    Quoted message said:

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week
    down-time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side
    effects of Zocor in the


    meantime.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My doctor is not a believer in tests; so she will not
    prescribe a blood


    test

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    until 2 months after I have started Zocor.

    Side effects of all Zocor and all statins may include
    memory loss, language difficulties, thinking and learning
    problems and transient global amnesia. Read here for the
    story of former US astronaut and flight surgeon Duane
    Graveline MD who experienced these side effects while on
    Lipitor:

    spacedoc.netspacedoc.net

    Another recent story on statin induced memory loss from
    CBS News: cbsnews.comeveni
    ngnews/main619351.shtml

    She believes

    Quoted message said:

    that lipid tests should only be done once a year because
    cholestrol


    takes so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    long to change.

    Cholesterol did not take long to change in me.


    Zee

    Thank you, Zee and others: I feel I'm getting a double
    message to my query to my doctor. She says it takes a long
    time to change -- 3 months at least -- when giving an answer
    to whether a test should be done before taking Zocor, but
    then she switches to the answer: you have to start taking
    taking Zocor in about a week or your cholesterol will go up.

  11. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Zee wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Correction: meant to say, "...not shown NOT TO BE CAUSED by
    Lipitor.)

    That isn't a logical statement. You can't prove a negative,
    scientifically or logically. What you can prove is that X
    causes Y, or that X has not been shown to cause Y, but you
    can't say that X has been shown NOT to cause Y because you
    will never test all occurrences of X. Maybe once in several
    million tries it WILL cause Y.
    --
    Don [email hidden]

  12. Quoted message said:

    "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I decided to discontinue Lipitor after taking it for 1
    yr. 2 months. It took me a bit of time to decide (for
    myself) that the hearty stomach spasms I was having
    happened when I took Aciphex at bedtime with Lipitor.
    When I took Aciphex in the morning and Lipitor at night,
    I did not have the spasms. One might ask why I didn’t
    continue taking Lipitor and Aciphex separately. However,
    my thinking is that any drug that will cause me spasms of
    this magnitude is a drug that I am not interested in
    continuing. In fairness, my doctor did check to see if
    there was any reaction between the two drugs, but none
    was listed.

    My doctor has now prescribed Zocor for me (after a week
    down-time from Lipitor). I have done my homework on side
    effects of Zocor in the meantime. My doctor is not a
    believer in tests; so she will not prescribe a blood test
    until 2 months after I have started Zocor.

    In April 2003 my cholesterol was 254; then in January
    2004, after taking Lipitor, it was 131. This January
    blood test was not done at her initiation, but only done
    as a result of a lost blood test by a yearly physical.
    She would not have been doing another blood test until
    April 2004, but none was done as the January 2004 was
    available. She believes that lipid tests should only be
    done once a year because cholestrol takes so long to
    change. When I suggested buying a cholesterol monitor,
    she said that I would be throwing my money away.

    I cannot change doctors at this time as I am dependent
    upon her for other things. The last time I changed, it
    took a while to find another doctor because doctors don’t
    seem to take over-age patients.

    My question: Has anyone used a cholesterol monitor and
    can give me advice regarding its use. Also any other
    comments will be helpful to me.

    Thanks so very much.

    Dee

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either. But I suspect at some places,
    no, if you are willing to pay for it.

    Bill

    You can order your own blood work at reasonable cost from
    www.healthcheckusa.com

  13. "listener" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either.


    But

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I suspect at some places, no, if you are willing to pay
    for it.

    Bill

    The answer is Yes, you do need a prescription.

    I saw on this page
    rxlist.comsimva.htm that "suggested"
    by the words Blood Testing Direct - No... as a lead-in to
    click on www.directlabs.com which came up as this page:
    directlabs.comtesttypes.php
    as well as and also gave this but I for some reason the top
    information on my page is missing, which is normally NOT
    missing. rxlist.comsimva.htm

    But I couldn't tell if there were some sites that did
    offer testing without a doctor's prescription OR a doctor
    to send it to.

    I note that Costco does cholesterol testing occasionally,
    but I've not availed myself of these to know whether they
    need a Doctor's OK or not. Does anyone know?

    Quoted message said:

    L.

  14. "listener" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either.


    But

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I suspect at some places, no, if you are willing to pay
    for it.

    Bill

    The answer is Yes, you do need a prescription.

    L.

    How do you know this to be true? Not that I know the
    reverse. It just does not make sense to me. For example, you
    can get your own CAT scan and finger [censored] blood sugar test
    without a prescription.

    Bill

    Bill

  15. On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:32:02 -0400, "Dee Randall"

    deedoveyatshenteldotnet said:


    "listener" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:22:09 -0400, "Dee Randall"
    <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote:


    She believes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that lipid tests should only be done once a year because
    cholestrol takes


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    long to change.

    Quoted message said:

    I would tend to agree. Obviously, you repsonded well to
    Lipitor as far as lowering cholesterol. Blood profiles
    flag items outside of the reference range, so if blood
    chemistry shows, for example, elevated liver functions
    (ALT & AST) then it should be drawn more than once per
    year - maybe two or three times to track elevations or
    decrease. Otherwise, once a year is normal.

    Thank you for your response.

    Zocor.com says

    “It is recommended that liver function tests be performed
    before the initiation of treatment, and thereafter when
    clinically indicated.”

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was explained that the liver
    portion of the cholesterol test is included in the
    cholesterol blood test. (I realize that this liver part of
    the test would not be included as a result on a cholesterol
    monitor). She believes that this liver results portion of
    the test is not needed either at the beginning of
    prescribing lipitor or zocor. If it is not taken at the
    beginning, how would one know how much it has risen since
    the beginning.

    You're already past "the beginning", having taken Lipitor
    for some time and now Zorcor. When you have your next
    bloodwork done ask if the liver function results are within
    normal range and proceed from there.

    L.

  16. Don Kirkman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Zee wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Correction: meant to say, "...not shown NOT TO BE CAUSED
    by Lipitor.)

    That isn't a logical statement. You can't prove a
    negative, scientifically or logically. What you can prove
    is that X causes Y, or that X has not been shown to cause
    Y, but you can't say that X has been shown NOT to cause Y
    because you will never test all occurrences of X. Maybe
    once in several million tries it WILL cause Y.

    Quoted message said:

    That isn't a logical statement.

    Makes perfect sense to me.

    Quoted message said:

    Maybe once in several million tries it WILL cause Y.

    Yes exactly; that's the once I was thinking of.

    Zee

  17. On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:36:59 GMT, [email hidden] (listener)

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question. Do
    you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't know
    the answer to that either. But I suspect at some places,
    no, if you are willing to pay for it.

    Bill

    The answer is Yes, you do need a prescription.

    L.

    No, you don't.

  18. Quoted message said:

    "listener" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't know the answer. But here is another question.
    Do you need a prescription to get a blood test? I don't
    know the answer to that either.


    But

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I suspect at some places, no, if you are willing to pay
    for it.

    Bill

    The answer is Yes, you do need a prescription.

    L.

    How do you know this to be true? Not that I know the
    reverse. It just does not make sense to me. For example,
    you can get your own CAT scan and finger [censored] blood sugar
    test without a prescription.

    Bill

    Bill


    I called a few labs. They all said blood chemistry has to be
    done with a prescription.

    I can understand finger-[censored] cholesterol and blood sugar
    kits but why would someone want to get their own CAT scan?

    L.

  19. On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:16:38 -0400, "Dee Randall"

    deedoveyatshenteldotnet said:

    I saw on this page
    rxlist.comsimva.htm that
    "suggested" by the words Blood Testing Direct - No... as a
    lead-in to click on www.directlabs.com which came up as
    this page:
    directlabs.comtesttypes.php
    as well as and also gave this but I for some reason the top
    information on my page is missing, which is normally NOT
    missing. rxlist.comsimva.htm

    But I couldn't tell if there were some sites that did
    offer testing without a doctor's prescription OR a doctor
    to send it to.

    I note that Costco does cholesterol testing occasionally,
    but I've not availed myself of these to know whether they
    need a Doctor's OK or not. Does anyone know?

    Quoted message said:

    I found

    bloodworksusa.combloodworksusa.com

    which apparently does not require a doctor's script for
    bloodwork. They don't accept insurance claims. I guess there
    are other online "Labs" like this. Who knew? Still, I prefer
    to go through my doctor.

    L.

  20. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Zee wrote in article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Don Kirkman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me I heard somewhere that Zee wrote in
    article
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Dee Randall" <deedoveyatshenteldotnet> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Correction: meant to say, "...not shown NOT TO BE CAUSED
    by Lipitor.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That isn't a logical statement. You can't prove a
    negative, scientifically or logically. What you can prove
    is that X causes Y, or that X has not been shown to cause
    Y, but you can't say that X has been shown NOT to cause Y
    because you will never test all occurrences of X. Maybe
    once in several million tries it WILL cause Y.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That isn't a logical statement.

    Quoted message said:

    Makes perfect sense to me.

    Probably.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe once in several million tries it WILL cause Y.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes exactly; that's the once I was thinking of.

    But of course that highlights the impossibility of your
    intended meaning that "[side effects were] not shown NOT TO
    BE CAUSED by Lipitor."
    --
    Don [email hidden]

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