Chins, dips and alternatives

"The Crow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out
some new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and
trying to find ways round things. I have found some equipment that
will do a budget job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility,
because I can't afford a power rack.

I know that you can do dips with two chairs, which is fair enough.
Any other cheap ways round dips? As a stop gap?

Also, chins. I need something for my lats and triceps. I know the
lat pull down pully is probably a poor substitute for chins, but how
well can you work the lats/triceps with a pull down high pully? Any
good as a cheap stop gap do you think? I can get my hands on a high
pully lat pull down facility for next to nothing.

YMCA memberships, at least here, are usually inexpensive and many have
well-worn but functional, old-school weight rooms with plenty of
equipment. Even if you can't afford a power rack, maybe you can get a
by-the-month membership at a Y or other facility. The one in our town
(where nothing is inexpensive) costs $32 a month.

For chinups/pullups, find a playground - you can do your dips there,
too.

http://www.ymca.org.uk

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

I like Steve's suggestion of chins and dips at the playground, you
might freak out some parents though. Deadlifts, Rows, Cleans, and
Pulls should work the lats, presses will work the triceps, all of these
you can do with just a bar. I do pullups on the I-Beam in my parents
basement when I go to visit. And I also do reverse pushups hanging on
to a bar that sits on saw horses.

My first concern would be squats. Without a rack you can front squat
your clean max, but thats about it. You need to back squat heavy too.
There are posts galore laying around MFW about building your own squat
rack. The cheapest and easiest way I can think of is this

aquire:
two old tires
two 4"x4" 's
one 2x4
two bags of quickcrete

Cut two 2x4 pieces to go on opposite sides of the 4x4 that fit inside
the tire, screw them into the bottom of the 4x4.
Cement the bottoms of the 4x4's into the tires
Notch the tops of the 4x4's or screw on some more wood, this is where
the bar will sit.

Now this is by no means safe, and these things could tip over, but they
should hold the weight if you are carefull. If you have the capability
to use metal instead of 4x4's then do it. I think some stolen road
sign posts will do the trick, but I don't know how you would make a
place for the bar to sit at the top. Use a lot of concrete for maximum
ballast, find big tires, or overbuild the concrete on top of the tires.

I know you wanted alternatives for chins and dips, but I just wanted to
put my idea for a cheapo, volitile squat rack out there to see what
people think about it. IMO adequate upperbody work can be done with
just a bar. Build a bench and a cheapo rack and you have everything.
Just be carefull.

--Derrick

Quoted message said:

I like Steve's suggestion of chins and dips at the playground, you
might freak out some parents though.

If he does it in Europe, the correct statement is: "you might freak
out some children though".

The Crow said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out
some new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and
trying to find ways round things. I have found some equipment that
will do a budget job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility,
because I can't afford a power rack.

I know that you can do dips with two chairs, which is fair enough. Any
other cheap ways round dips? As a stop gap?

Also, chins. I need something for my lats and triceps. I know the
lat pull down pully is probably a poor substitute for chins, but how
well can you work the lats/triceps with a pull down high pully? Any
good as a cheap stop gap do you think? I can get my hands on a high
pully lat pull down facility for next to nothing.

Any sort of cable will allow you to do a lot of stuff if you are creative;
or you can buy a rucksack, grab some bricks off a building site, and do
pushups and pullups. You can find something to do pullups on if you want to;
a tree branch or whatever.

Or you could join a rowing club - mine has a gym with bars and a few
machines, use of club boats, training programme and good coaching and good
people.

Cost? £13 a month (OK, so this goes up to a whole £26 if you're not a
student). And you need to learn to row and want to get good at it, but the
second will happen shortly after the first. Use of equipment: unlimited. I
end up paying about 20p per hour.

Peter

Dnia 2005-10-07 The Crow napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out some
new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and trying to
find ways round things. I have found some equipment that will do a budget
job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility, because I can't afford a
power rack.

I know that you can do dips with two chairs, which is fair enough. Any
other cheap ways round dips? As a stop gap?

Between table and fridge? Between washing mashine and capboard?
Probably won't work in US, as you have all things huge. 😉

Quoted message said:

Also, chins.

Measure your door frame and buy door frame mounted chinup bar. You wedge
it there by unscrewing it. Works OK until you lift an extra bodyweight,
but then you can do one handed chinups easily, so still no problem.
They cost some $15 around here.

This guy uses something like that.
http://www.dragondoor.com/images/articles/232_06.jpg

Quoted message said:

I need something for my lats and triceps.

There is nothing better for triceps than dips. I suggested "chest"
dips, because it is a bit harder to make them effective chest exercise.
If you like more arm work then simply do them regular way.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/AsChestDip.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/ASTriDip.html

BTW - browse this site.

Quoted message said:

I know the lat pull
down pully is probably a poor substitute for chins, but how well can you
work the lats/triceps with a pull down high pully?

Well, somehow you can. But chins or pullups are better.

Quoted message said:

Any good as a cheap stop
gap do you think? I can get my hands on a high pully lat pull down facility
for next to nothing.

I'd pass it, if money matters. Better to buy barbell and weights. Or
another dumbbell and lots of weights. Saves time, when you have them
preloaded for most exercises (I like 5x5 or 6x5 for this very reason -
no need to change weight).

BTW - instead of Evil Wheel simply hang some rope from your chinup bar
and you'll have basically the same movement. Just much easier to adjust
resistance. The higher your grip and closer to door you stand the
easier it becomes. For later one may take some extra weight and start
progression again.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2005-10-07 [email hidden] napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

basement when I go to visit. And I also do reverse pushups hanging on
to a bar that sits on saw horses.

You can front squat out of them. I've seen it recommended at
danjohn.org. He even added chains to a barbell, to make it more
difficult as you progress through a movement, or something.

Quoted message said:

My first concern would be squats. Without a rack you can front squat
your clean max, but thats about it.

And that is enough for most people too. Until you suck at your clean so
much, that you can forntsquat it 5x8 easily.

Quoted message said:

You need to back squat heavy too.

Or what?

[...]

Quoted message said:

Now this is by no means safe, and these things could tip over,

So why bother? There is nothing more dangerous than unsafe "safety"
equipment. I'd go with frontsquats, cleans and deadlifts. There is
nothing magic about backsquats.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2005-10-07 Andrzej Rosa napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Dnia 2005-10-07 [email hidden] napisa³(a):

One more thing. If you really want to do back squats cheap and
relatively safe then maybe give a thought to this idea.
Attach some ropes or chains to your bar and hang weights from them.
Hold against those chains to keep them stable. Should work, but I
never tested this idea so maybe try it first with light weights.

Weights should just touch the floor at the bottom position, of course.

Just an idea...
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Quoted message said:

You can front squat out of them. I've seen it recommended at
danjohn.org. He even added chains to a barbell, to make it more
difficult as you progress through a movement, or something.

Back squat out of them, too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My first concern would be squats. Without a rack you can front squat
your clean max, but thats about it.

Quoted message said:

And that is enough for most people too. Until you suck at your clean so
much, that you can front squat it 5x8 easily.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You need to back squat heavy too.

Quoted message said:

I'd go with frontsquats, cleans and deadlifts.

Not bad advice.

Quoted message said:

There is nothing magic about back squats.

Yes there is.

That cable bar thingy Askem wrote about looked cheap and safe and workable.

T said:

Quoted message said:

You can front squat out of them. I've seen it recommended at
danjohn.org. He even added chains to a barbell, to make it more
difficult as you progress through a movement, or something.

Back squat out of them, too.

Not safely.

And if you're going to front squat, you NEED to be able to dump that bar
if required. That means you have to have suitable flooring and bumper
plates.

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Andrzej Rosa said:

Measure your door frame and buy door frame mounted chinup bar. You wedge
it there by unscrewing it. Works OK until you lift an extra bodyweight,
but then you can do one handed chinups easily, so still no problem.
They cost some $15 around here.

Spend a little more and get a door gym thingy, which lifts in and out
easilly. The only kind of mounted door frame pullup bar that I find safe
is one that has mounts that screw into the door frame and then the bar
has metal squares welded to the ends that slide into the mounts. The
telescoping ones with the rubber ends to the bar don't work very well,
especially if you're heavy, use them frequently, or are adding weight.

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

The Crow said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out some
new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and trying to
find ways round things. I have found some equipment that will do a budget
job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility, because I can't afford a
power rack.

What is your budget? You're in the UK, right? Have you started looking
in the local forsale paper? Most areas have a little paper exclusively
for people selling their old stuff. Gym equipment tends to last pretty well.

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

spodosaurus said:

T said:

Quoted message said:

You can front squat out of them. I've seen it recommended at
danjohn.org. He even added chains to a barbell, to make it more
difficult as you progress through a movement, or something.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Back squat out of them, too.

Quoted message said:

Not safely.

Saw horses leave you a bottom position half squat; up you go, take a couple of
steps back, do your set of full squats, step forward, down you go, bar onto the
sawhorses; no problem.

Quoted message said:

And if you're going to front squat, you NEED to be able to dump that bar
if required. That means you have to have suitable flooring and bumper
plates.

If I NEED to dump the bar, I'll damage the floor. Rubber mat's enough to avoid
said damage, you don't need bumper plates too unless you make a habit out of it
(e.g. OLers).

Dnia 2005-10-08 spodosaurus napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Andrzej Rosa said:

Measure your door frame and buy door frame mounted chinup bar. You wedge
it there by unscrewing it. Works OK until you lift an extra bodyweight,
but then you can do one handed chinups easily, so still no problem.
They cost some $15 around here.

Spend a little more and get a door gym thingy, which lifts in and out
easilly.

The thing I was talking about has an advantage of not obstructing normal
door operation. It can be mounted there all the time.

Quoted message said:

The only kind of mounted door frame pullup bar that I find safe
is one that has mounts that screw into the door frame and then the bar
has metal squares welded to the ends that slide into the mounts. The
telescoping ones with the rubber ends to the bar don't work very well,
especially if you're heavy, use them frequently, or are adding weight.

They work fine for me. If I ever progress to lifting 150+ kilo then
I'll think about something safer, but around 100 Kg they work fine for me.
But more probably I'll get fixed at reaching one handed pullup goal by
that time. 😉

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

The Crow said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out some
new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and trying to
find ways round things. I have found some equipment that will do a budget
job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility, because I can't afford a
power rack.

I know that you can do dips with two chairs, which is fair enough. Any
other cheap ways round dips? As a stop gap?

Also, chins. I need something for my lats and triceps. I know the lat pull
down pully is probably a poor substitute for chins, but how well can you
work the lats/triceps with a pull down high pully? Any good as a cheap stop
gap do you think? I can get my hands on a high pully lat pull down facility
for next to nothing.

Here's an idea I've never tried - and hopefully never will! I don't
even know whether it would work.

Dig a hole in the ground to do dips. I think I remember reading
something to the effect that people can learn to progress from partial
deadlifts to full deadlifts using holes in the ground that are filled
in over time.

For chins/pullups, use a door attachment or an adjustable strap with
handles that can be thrown over a tree limb, a ceiling beam, etc.
I I like Lifeline-USA's products
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=17

Lifeline's Power Pushup 1 and 2 can also be used to do dips
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=4&productid=13
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=4&productid=12

Quoted message said:

The Crow said:

Hello again.
As you'll have guessed from my earlier posts, I'm trying to sort out some
new kit. I have very little cash, and so am shoestringing and trying to
find ways round things. I have found some equipment that will do a budget
job for me, but there's no chin or dip facility, because I can't afford a
power rack.

I know that you can do dips with two chairs, which is fair enough. Any
other cheap ways round dips? As a stop gap?

Also, chins. I need something for my lats and triceps. I know the lat pull
down pully is probably a poor substitute for chins, but how well can you
work the lats/triceps with a pull down high pully? Any good as a cheap stop
gap do you think? I can get my hands on a high pully lat pull down facility
for next to nothing.

Here's an idea I've never tried - and hopefully never will! I don't
even know whether it would work.

Dig a hole in the ground to do dips. I think I remember reading
something to the effect that people can learn to progress from partial
deadlifts to full deadlifts using holes in the ground that are filled
in over time.

For chins/pullups, use a door attachment or an adjustable strap with
handles that can be thrown over a tree limb, a ceiling beam, etc.
I I like Lifeline-USA's products
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=17

Lifeline's Power Pushup 1 and 2 can also be used to do dips
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=4&productid=13
http://www.lifelineusa.com/products.cfm?categoryid=4&productid=12

A $72 alternative to a hole in the ground -

For dips -

http://www.easychin.com/easydip.lasso

http://www.easychin.com/permadip.lasso

$72 unless you live in Oregon, Washington, California, Hawaii &
Alaska in which case it's $74