Charly Gaul

in 492931 20051206 172614 Bob Martin said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

more at http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/CyclismeFicheCoureur1825.html

Bob Martin said:

in 492931 20051206 172614 Bob Martin said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

more at http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/CyclismeFicheCoureur1825.html

Perhaps the most famous Luxembourger of all time?
I can't think of an "angel" quote that doesn't sound sappy.

Bob Martin said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Another great one gone. I hope Benjo can post a suitable tribute.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Bob Martin said:

in 492931 20051206 172614 Bob Martin said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

more at http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/CyclismeFicheCoureur1825.html

he was ill for a long time... i remember seeing photos of him at
pantanis funeral and he looked pretty frail.

Bob Martin said:

more at http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/CyclismeFicheCoureur1825.html

And their frontpage, and
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s18/e11386/sport_lng0_spo18_evt11386_sto799094.shtml
http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/Primo_Piano/2005/12_Dicembre/06/gaul.shtml
http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9244.0.html

--
E. Dronkert

Most unflattering photo in the AFP/Yahoo article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051206/sp_wl_afp/cyclingluxfragauldeath_051206163056

--
E. Dronkert

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

So?

Geez, he won in '58, died in '05, and you can't wait to besmirch his
memory.

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

Yeah and who didn't take drugs then? Nobody!
Got news for you, from the beginning of cycle racing up to the 60's
there would have been no racing with out dope. It is just what they
did. They also smoked and drank and gambled and womanized. Big Deal!

Callistus Valerius said:

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

Dumbass,

Of course he took amphetamines. They were legal. Everybody
that won the Tour in the 1950s took amphetamines.

Bob Schwartz

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
it served the cocky [censored] right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

Benjo Maso

benjo maso said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Charly Gaul died today in a Paris hospital.
He was 72.

Gaul admitted taking amphetamines when he won the tdf.

So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
it served the cocky [censored] right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

Benjo Maso

Thanks, Benjo.

Steve

Dauphiné-Libéré
1953 2nd 1. Teisseire, L. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Robic, J.

Tour de France
1955 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Brankart, J. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Fornara, P.
- 5. Rolland, A.
1958 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Favero, V. - 3. Geminiani, R. - 4.
Adriaensens, J. - 5. Nencini, G.
1961 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Carlesi, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
Massignan, I. - 5. Junkermann, H.

Giro d'Italia
1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Magni, F. - 3. Coletto, A. - 4. Maule, C. -
5. Moser, A.
1957 4th 1. Nencini, G. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Baldini, E. - 4. Gaul, C.
- 5. Geminiani, R.
1959 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Ronchini, D. - 4. Van
Looy, R. - 5. Massignan, I.
1960 3rd 1. Anquetil, J. - 2. Nencini, G. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4.
Massignan, I. - 5. Hoevenaers, J.
1961 4th 1. Pambianco, A. - 2. Anquetil, J. - 3. Suarez, A. - 4. Gaul,
C. - 5. Carlesi, G.

Tour de France KOM
1955 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bobet, L. - 3. Brankart, J.
1956 1st 1. Gaul, C. - 2. Bahamontes, F. - 3. Huot, V.
1958 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Dotto, J.
1959 2nd 1. Bahamontes, F. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Saint, G.
1961 2nd 1. Massignan, I. - 2. Gaul, C. - 3. Junkermann, H.

Wordchampionship
1954 3rd 1. Bobet, L. - 2. Schaer, F. - 3. Gaul, C. - 4. Gismondi, M.
- 5. Anquetil, J.

Quoted message said:

So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he

took

Quoted message said:

more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58

because,

Quoted message said:

having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown

next

Quoted message said:

day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome,

too

Quoted message said:

self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of

'56

Quoted message said:

because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him.

Of

Quoted message said:

course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody

cared:

Quoted message said:

it served the cocky [censored] right. But that wasn't the only prize he had

to

Quoted message said:

pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke

with

Quoted message said:

his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do

with

Quoted message said:

cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely

and

Quoted message said:

came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews

since

Quoted message said:

several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited

the

Quoted message said:

ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his

worthy

Quoted message said:

successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health -

he

Quoted message said:

was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a

great

Quoted message said:

rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

Benjo Maso

So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
him? Well, at least he didn't die from the "cycling disease" (heart attack
by age 50), and lived a normal lifespan.

Quoted message said:

The guy who cuts my hair (for like the past 15 years) was a childhood
friend of Charly Gaul. It has made for some interesting conversations
over the years.

He said when they were young, they would follow the TdF religiously via
radio, and play this game where they each had a collection of marbles,
and each was named after one of the famous pro racers. Then they would
roll them down hills to see who won.

He's let me look at some old books about Charly .. unfortunately for me
they were in French.

Callistus Valerius said:

So he was doper, and his favorite modern cyclist was another doper.
Sounds like, from your description, that he was whooping it up on speed,
after he retired. Like Pantini whooped it up on cocaine, after his
retirement. I wonder if they shared a crack pipe, the times Marco visited
him?

Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?

Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
that stuff.

Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson

benjo maso says...

Quoted message said:

So what? It wasn't prohibited. Yes, he toook amphetamines, and yes, he took
more than most other riders. Jean Kirchen, the best Luxemburg rider in
Gaul's early years, told me that Charly once said to him: "Jean, I'm
worried". "But why?" "Because I'm taking amphetamines". "But you dont have
too worry about it, we're all do". "Yes, I know, but I take too much". But
did he owe his victories to it? Hardly. On the contrary, it was more often
counterproductive. He lost the Tour of '55 because he took too many
amphitamine in the stage to Avignon, he almost lost the Tour of '58 because,
having taken too much in the TT on the Mont-Ventoux, he had a breakdown next
day. What's more, it influenced his character. It made him troublesome, too
self-assured and convinced of his own invicibility. He lost the Tour of '56
because he thought he didn't need his teammates. He lost the Giro of '57
because when he stopped to have a pee, Bobet and Geminiani attacked him. Of
course, it was against all the unwritten rules of cycling, but nobody cared:
it served the cocky [censored] right. But that wasn't the only prize he had to
pay, It shortened his career and when he stopped he was hooked and
everything he did - running a bar, marrying twice - went wrong. But, and
that's the only thing that really counts, he redeemed himself. He broke with
his past, lived more or less as a hermit and didn't want anything to do with
cycling anymorel. It took him several years, but he recoverd completely and
came back to the world. In the 1980's he allowed his first interviews since
several years and when the Tour started in Luxemburg in 1989, he assited the
ceremonies. He even went to the annual reunions of bicycle racers in the
Beaujolais and Gemenos. And all the riders noticed that he had changed
thouroughly. There were few traces of his self-centredness anymore, and he
was genuinly interested in his ex-collegues and in cycling in general. He
appeared frequently on Luxemburg TV, making comments on the Giro and the
Tour. His favorite rider by far was Marco Pantani, whom he saw as his worthy
successor. Pantani was honoured and went a couple of times to Luxemburg to
see his predecessor. And when Pantani died, in spite of his poor health - he
was hardly able to walk - Gaul flew to Italy to pay his respect to poor
Marco. When the people at the sidewalk recognized him, they applauded and
cheered him. So would I have done, if I had been there. He had been a great
rider, one of the greatest climbers ever, but later in his life he also
showed he was a great human being. May he rest in peace.

Thanks for the historical summary. I happened to go exploring some of my racing
history books in search of Gaul facts and factiods last summer when I heard his
health was declining. But I like the mix of perspectives you present here.

And about caffeine - despite quite a large bit of research into its
physiological effects, it still is not all that well understood. For example,
it is generally thought of as a stimulant but often acts as a depressent. Most
experts classify it as a vaso-constrictor, a class of compounds often thought to
lower athletic performance, yet many top athletes swear by its ability to
improve their performance. And they have plenty of real world evidence to
support those beliefs.

Quoted message said:

Hey, let's cop an attitude! Got any more stones handy?

Are you testifying here that you've never used/abused any drugs,
including alcohol, tobacco, anithistamines/"cold" meds, pain meds,
antidepressants, cannabis-- anything whatsoever? Because if you have,
maybe you're just lucky you can still so loudly count yourself among
the "righteous", seeing that good people have gotten "hooked" on all
that stuff.

Ah, the War on People continues... --Tom Paterson

My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
and yesterday.

To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
guess you're right, I'm a bum too.

Callistus Valerius said:

My issue is as long as the system rewards the dopers, and punishes the
non-dopers, the champions will always be suspect. If you don't dope, you
don't win, it's as simple as that. Think of all the legitimate champions we
would have had, if it wasn't for the frauds that are gaming the system today
and yesterday.

If it wasn't illegal (prohibited by sanctioning rules, etc etc) then
Gaul, in particular, wasn't a "fraud". Moreover, the widespread use of
amphetimines in the pro peloton was common knowledge-- who was being
"fooled"?

The "system" includes testing that isn't effective at finding doping.
Police raids and border searches-- even poor refrigeration!-- have done
far, far better at catching dopers and suppliers than testing blood and
urine samples.

If your issue is with the system, why attack only the riders? Go after
[censored] Pound and the other [censored] who make rules they can't enforce--
and don't even pretend to enforce fairly (see "Bode Miller"😉.

Quoted message said:

To answer your question, I have and continue to drink soft drinks, I
drank coffee years ago, but do not now, I smoked a cigarette when I was 15.
And I was down wind from a cyclist that was smoking some weed before the
start of a road race. Do electrolyte pills count? I do use those, so I
guess you're right, I'm a bum too.

Good thing you didn't get tested at work (assuming) Monday morning
after you ingested that Teen Spirit. The War, you know... no
explanations are accepted!

Bum? I continue in bemusement at people who know about the real world,
"how the game is played", but get all Puritanical when the subject is
sports.

You're entitled to your opinion inre Pantani. I saw one editorial that
decried sympathy for him as "the easy way". Again, fine, as long as
Pound and the like get to pay their fair share of the cost. Of course,
that's not part of the deal, is it? --D-y