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Change to the Subway 8

Started by Jon Senior · · Last activity · 30 posts · 2,312 views

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UK and Europe
Published
30 January 2005
Last activity
6 February 2005
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Jon Senior
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  1. Looking Halfords today (Chasing down the Bates-recommended Megaload
    rack!) and took a look at the Subway 8 which I'm trying to get my mum to
    test ride. Looked cool, but a quick operation of the brakes revealed a
    very soft front. I glanced down to see how easy it was to tighten, while
    considering spinning the wheel to test them when I realised that the
    front brake was a Shimano mechanical disc! They appear to have changed
    the spec, although this has not made it onto their website and the
    spotty muppet in the shop had no idea at all. If I get a chance I'll
    probably take it for a test spin tomorrow. Quite fancy seeing what it's
    like!

    Jon

  2. On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:25:38 +0000, Jon Senior

    jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

    Looking Halfords today (Chasing down the Bates-recommended Megaload
    rack!) and took a look at the Subway 8 which I'm trying to get my mum to
    test ride. Looked cool, but a quick operation of the brakes revealed a
    very soft front. I glanced down to see how easy it was to tighten, while
    considering spinning the wheel to test them when I realised that the
    front brake was a Shimano mechanical disc! They appear to have changed
    the spec, although this has not made it onto their website and the
    spotty muppet in the shop had no idea at all. If I get a chance I'll
    probably take it for a test spin tomorrow. Quite fancy seeing what it's
    like!

    Jon

    Was the original Subway 8 fitted with a heat treated 7005-T6 frame
    like the current version? I noticed Saracen are upgrading a lot of
    their bike frames from non heat treated 7005 to heat treated 7005-T6
    frames in the current range. Is there a connection between Saracen and
    Carrera?

  3. Martin Wilson said:

    Was the original Subway 8 fitted with a heat treated 7005-T6 frame
    like the current version? I noticed Saracen are upgrading a lot of
    their bike frames from non heat treated 7005 to heat treated 7005-T6
    frames in the current range. Is there a connection between Saracen and
    Carrera?

    Not sure, but I believe Kona frames are made in the same factory. The
    Subway 8 is assembled in Vietnam!

  4. Jon Senior said:

    Looking Halfords today (Chasing down the Bates-recommended Megaload
    rack!)


    I was wandering round a Halford yesterday and had a look at one of
    these. I didn't realise the front disc was a new feature.
    Nice bike.

  5. Zog The Undeniable said:
    Martin Wilson said:

    Was the original Subway 8 fitted with a heat treated 7005-T6 frame
    like the current version? I noticed Saracen are upgrading a lot of
    their bike frames from non heat treated 7005 to heat treated 7005-T6
    frames in the current range. Is there a connection between Saracen and
    Carrera?

    Not sure, but I believe Kona frames are made in the same factory. The
    Subway 8 is assembled in Vietnam!

    Blimey Vietnam, is that the original subway 8 or the current one?
    Merida used to make a lot of the kona frames. Obviously Kona are free
    to buy frames from anyone though so I suspect this may vary from model
    to model.

    Just watching at the moment Beijing Bicycle Thieve and a Merida
    mountain bike is practically the main star;

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0276501/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9YmVpamluZyBiaWN5Y2xlIHRoaWV2ZXxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=2;fm=1

    You can also play spot the dual suspension mountain bike while
    watching it. Its not easy seeing them.

  6. Jon Senior composed the following;:

    Quoted message said:

    Looking Halfords today (Chasing down the Bates-recommended Megaload
    rack!) and took a look at the Subway 8 which I'm trying to get my mum
    to test ride. Looked cool, but a quick operation of the brakes
    revealed a very soft front. I glanced down to see how easy it was to
    tighten, while considering spinning the wheel to test them when I
    realised that the front brake was a Shimano mechanical disc! They
    appear to have changed the spec, although this has not made it onto
    their website and the spotty muppet in the shop had no idea at all.
    If I get a chance I'll probably take it for a test spin tomorrow.
    Quite fancy seeing what it's like!

    Jon

    Be careful .. The 'soft' front brake might not be setup properly, it
    might just be a bike thrown up on show. So if some Halfords salesman
    just takes that bike down to let you test ride, make sure they check
    them properly before riding it.

    --
    Paul ...
    http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
    (8(!) Homer Rules ... 😉
    "A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

  7. Paul - censored said:

    Be careful .. The 'soft' front brake might not be setup properly, it
    might just be a bike thrown up on show. So if some Halfords salesman
    just takes that bike down to let you test ride, make sure they check
    them properly before riding it.

    My first move would be to test the brakes before even getting on it. If
    I can make the front wheel go round with the brake on, it's getting
    adjusted.

    I'll post a review later.

    Jon

  8. Jon Senior said:


    My first move would be to test the brakes before even getting on it. If
    I can make the front wheel go round with the brake on, it's getting
    adjusted.

    I'll post a review later.

    Problem with disc brakes is they take a bit of use to bed in and before
    that the braking can be distinctly mediocre.

    Tony

  9. Paul - censored said:

    Be careful .. The 'soft' front brake might not be setup properly, it
    might just be a bike thrown up on show. So if some Halfords salesman
    just takes that bike down to let you test ride, make sure they check
    them properly before riding it.


    I don't have much experince of discs, but roller brakes are incredibly
    soft, but firm up when the bike is moving. You can usually pull the
    levers right back to the bars even if the cable is adjusted so the brake
    is almost dragging. They work though.

    I wouldn't expect a disc to feel very firm either given the tiny
    movement at the caliper and the high mechanical advantage needed on a
    small rotor.

  10. Jon Senior composed the following;:

    Quoted message said:
    Paul - censored said:

    Be careful .. The 'soft' front brake might not be setup properly, it
    might just be a bike thrown up on show. So if some Halfords salesman
    just takes that bike down to let you test ride, make sure they check
    them properly before riding it.

    My first move would be to test the brakes before even getting on it.
    If I can make the front wheel go round with the brake on, it's getting
    adjusted.

    I'll post a review later.

    From experience, I'd also suggest you check the seat, seat post,
    handlebars and stem for tightness.

    New discs can take a bit of bedding in, so don't expect miracles at
    first. When they have bedded in and work, they work extremely well,
    'specially in the wet mud. When they don't ... er .... they don't 🙂

    --
    Paul ...
    http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
    (8(!) Homer Rules ... 😉
    "A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

  11. "Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:41fcbbe2.0@entanet...

    Quoted message said:
    Paul - censored said:

    Be careful .. The 'soft' front brake might not be setup properly, it
    might just be a bike thrown up on show. So if some Halfords salesman
    just takes that bike down to let you test ride, make sure they check them
    properly before riding it.


    I don't have much experince of discs, but roller brakes are incredibly
    soft, but firm up when the bike is moving. You can usually pull the
    levers right back to the bars even if the cable is adjusted so the brake
    is almost dragging. They work though.

    I wouldn't expect a disc to feel very firm either given the tiny movement
    at the caliper and the high mechanical advantage needed on a small rotor.

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???
    --
    Donegal Paul - On the mend
    Maico Letta 247cc - We have the technology.
    Zundapp Bella r203 - Watch out for ze Germans!
    Bajaj Chetak 125 - Wannabe Vespa
    Lambretta Li186 - stripped.
    Vespa T5 Millenium - intact
    www.thepilgrimssc.co.uk
    www.iowcaravans.co.uk

  12. Donegal Paul said:

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    I was wondering that. The "silly fan thingy" is actually aluminium -
    and it *is* necessary, although it normally floats and only makes firm
    contact with the brake drum when the brake is applied. I burnt my
    finger while proudly showing the local CTC section how hot the brake got
    after coming down from Uffington White Horse.

  13. Zog The Undeniable' said to Donegal Paul said:


    Quoted message said:

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    I was wondering that. The "silly fan thingy" is actually aluminium - and
    it *is* necessary, although it normally floats and only makes firm contact
    with the brake drum when the brake is applied. I burnt my finger while
    proudly showing the local CTC section how hot the brake got after coming
    down from Uffington White Horse.

    *ouch*
    It was probably the only thing that i didnt like about the subway 8, it may
    well be aluminium, but it looks dead plasticky and tatty :-/
    Im buggered though if i can find a cheapy cheap bike that'll fit my needs no
    matter how hard i look so i may have to do a little saving up :-(

    Of course, I would also love to have front suspension forks on it, but that
    only adds a small fortune to the cost of thebike !
    --
    Donegal Paul - On the mend
    Maico Letta 247cc - We have the technology.
    Zundapp Bella r203 - Watch out for ze Germans!
    Bajaj Chetak 125 - Wannabe Vespa
    Lambretta Li186 - stripped.
    Vespa T5 Millenium - intact
    www.thepilgrimssc.co.uk
    www.iowcaravans.co.uk

  14. Donegal Paul said:

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    I'm afraid that the OP is well aware of the difference between a
    mechanical disc brake and a "silly plastic fan thingy"! ;-) The front
    brake is very definitely a Shimano mechanical disc.

    Jon

  15. Jon Senior' said to Donegal Paul said:
    Quoted message said:

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    I'm afraid that the OP is well aware of the difference between a
    mechanical disc brake and a "silly plastic fan thingy"! ;-) The front
    brake is very definitely a Shimano mechanical disc.

    *heh* In that case im bleedin' glad i didnt impulsivly buy the subway 8 with
    the silly plastic thingy on it last week :-)
    --
    Donegal Paul - On the mend
    Maico Letta 247cc - We have the technology.
    Zundapp Bella r203 - Watch out for ze Germans!
    Bajaj Chetak 125 - Wannabe Vespa
    Lambretta Li186 - stripped.
    Vespa T5 Millenium - intact
    www.thepilgrimssc.co.uk
    www.iowcaravans.co.uk

  16. Donegal Paul said:


    Jon Senior' said to Donegal Paul said:
    Quoted message said:

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan thingy
    thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    I'm afraid that the OP is well aware of the difference between a
    mechanical disc brake and a "silly plastic fan thingy"! ;-) The front
    brake is very definitely a Shimano mechanical disc.

    *heh* In that case im bleedin' glad i didnt impulsivly buy the subway 8 with
    the silly plastic thingy on it last week :-)

    So whats the verdict then with regards which is better? If they have
    replaced the front hub brake with a shimano non hydraulic disc brake
    is that a good thing? Was the original subway 8 fitted with a non heat
    treated 7005 frame and therefore the current version has a better
    frame? Are both frames the same geometry and same manufacturer?

    The general comments I've read about non hydraulic disc brakes is that
    they add weight and are no better than good V brakes but I've no
    experience of disc brakes myself. What are the running costs of this
    shimano disc system compared to the hub brakes?

  17. Donegal Paul said:

    *heh* In that case im bleedin' glad i didnt impulsivly buy the subway 8 with
    the silly plastic thingy on it last week :-)

    I did query it, but the guy in the shop had no idea what I was talking
    about! The braking ability of the roller brakes was the only thing
    really queried in the reviews I've read. Fine around (flat) cities, but
    liable to suffer chronic fade on the descents. Putting a disc on the
    front should go a long way to solving that.

    Review:

    Sadly not of the Subway 8. I may still ride one, but the guy on the
    phone this morning when I tried to "book" a test ride was talking about
    only being able to ride it around the car park. I can't really think of
    a less useful test. I did however take out a Ridgeback Neutron (Same
    basic spec but with the Nexus dynohub, Basta front light and Vs front
    and rear. £450).

    First impressions: Looks good. Standard Ridgeback matt finish so looks
    pretty sleek. Has mudguard eyes on the forks and lowrider bosses (Of
    sorts - one sided only I think) halfway up. Two separate eyes at the
    rear built into the solid block of Aluminium that appears to be the
    current fashion! Mount points on the chain stays (Or rather... on the
    central strut that links to the chain stays. See the Ridgeback website
    for a better idea!) for a rack. In accordance with British consumer law
    all of these mount points are unused and pre-fitted with stainless steel
    bolts just waiting for the accessories. It's a commuter bike. Why the
    hell doesn't it even come with mudguards?

    Riding: On the flat around town it was good. Pretty plush feel, a
    combination of the wide tyres (For me, anything above 23mm is "wide"😉,
    upright riding position and allegedly sprung seatpost. I didn't really
    notice the seatpost move when I sat down, so it was either locked out or
    designed for someone considerably heavier than I.

    As long as you aren't cranking it hard, changing gear is not a problem.
    It seems to change up slightly better (Under higher load) than
    downshifting but this wasn't really an issue. It freewheels nicely and
    one of the first things I noticed is that there is little or no travel
    on the freewheel. It makes the requisite clicking sounds, but the rapid
    response feels like a clutch. A quick potter around town was good. It
    was fun to pull up at the lights in a high gear and then drop a few
    while stationary. I did try the lowest gear on the flat, but couldn't
    maintain the cadence to get a feel for it.

    So I took it up a hill. Arthur's seat in fact. The theory was that if I
    could get the default set up, up the hill without standing up, my mother
    could ride a dropped gear one around France! I picked a good day for it
    as the wind had picked up nicely making it hell. In addition, I had
    shunned my normal cycling gear for combats and a T-shirt with my Nevis
    Lite providing boil-in-the-bag duties.

    First the descent. The strong wind added ample resistance and made me
    miss my drop bars. Got up a reasonable pace though and had no qualms
    about the handling. I tried switching the front light on and off to see
    if I could notice the drag from the dynohub, but didn't notice a thing.
    It seemed pretty good to me.

    It worked though. I made it over without needing to drop into 1st
    (Although I did, just to see). When down in first and second I felt that
    I could feel the drag in the hub. More accurately, I could feel a
    "thrumming" that came through the pedals. Knowing what I do about the
    system meant that I was looking for this, so possibly not a fair test.

    As I approached the final corner and crest I noticed a cyclist coming up
    alongside. I didn't really want a race but wasn't going to slow down. He
    pulled alongside and commented on my "new" bike. I explained that I was
    test riding it and that Arthur's seat seemed a good test. He said it
    looked pretty impressive and I'd certainly been doing well up the hill.
    Turned out the bugger had been shadowing me up. He then pulled back in
    behind me just in time for the final climb and thrash into the wind.

    Then another confident descent, and short ride back to Biketrax.

    All in? Generally impressed. Budget for £500 to include rack, mudguards,
    bottle cage(s) and a rear light. In a hilly city, I would seriously
    consider speccing a lower gear range to put direct drive somewhere more
    useful. Fundamentally, it's not my kind of bike, but if I was looking to
    blow some money on a commuter bike I'd certainly put it high on the
    list. The extra £100 over the Subway gets you the dynohub and light. The
    Subway has a possible edge in that it would be possible to fit decent
    discs to it, while the Ridgeback is "limited" to Vees. I will definitely
    have to try the Subway by way of comparison. I'd consider the Cannondale
    50/50 but given the ridiculous price, it's hardly in the same league.

    Apologies for the rambling and probably badly structured review. I'd
    intended to write it earlier and probably wont have time to do so tomorrow.

    Jon

  18. Martin Wilson said:

    So whats the verdict then with regards which is better? If they have
    replaced the front hub brake with a shimano non hydraulic disc brake
    is that a good thing? Was the original subway 8 fitted with a non heat
    treated 7005 frame and therefore the current version has a better
    frame? Are both frames the same geometry and same manufacturer?

    Some non-hydraulic discs are OK, but the major advantages that are often
    quoted for discs are actually those for hydraulics. The Trice range of
    trikes use mechanical discs on the front wheels and they don't have any
    problem stopping! Personally, I'd have used Vs but since both wheels
    were originally built around disc-specific rims, they were probably
    trying to avoid making major changes.

    As for the frame. No idea. You'll need to find more information about
    where Carrera source their frames in order to answer that ones.

    Quoted message said:

    The general comments I've read about non hydraulic disc brakes is that
    they add weight and are no better than good V brakes but I've no
    experience of disc brakes myself. What are the running costs of this
    shimano disc system compared to the hub brakes?

    Higher. As far as I know, the hub brakes are a fit and forget system.
    The pads tend to last far longer than you'd credit. Being Shimano, the
    pads for the discs will be easy to source and I think they're relatively
    cheap (Comparable to normal pads). A colleague at work who rides a MTB
    with hydraulic discs replaced the pads after a year, and his riding is
    not limited to the commute to and from work.

    Jon

  19. Jon Senior said:


    Sadly not of the Subway 8. I may still ride one, but the guy on the
    phone this morning when I tried to "book" a test ride was talking about
    only being able to ride it around the car park. I can't really think of
    a less useful test.

    Ride it round the shop?

    Actually, when I was in Futurecycles one time, teh machanic was
    adjusting teh brakes on a BMX. Having done so, he rode it down teh
    aisle, got to the end and went into an endo, hopped it from the front
    wheel onto teh back, pogo'd round on teh spot, dropped back down to
    two wheels and rode it back to teh workstand where he'd started. I
    guess it was a reasonable test of the brakes, anyway.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  20. in message <[email hidden]>, Donegal Paul

    (') said:

    "Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:41fcbbe2.0@entanet...

    Quoted message said:


    I wouldn't expect a disc to feel very firm either given the tiny
    movement at the caliper and the high mechanical advantage needed on a
    small rotor.

    Are we sure that the OP didnt just mistake the silly plastic fan
    thingy thats supposed to cool the roller brake for a disc???

    The OP was Jon Senior.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

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