Chainring wear on the track?

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the road
to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings so know
what both new and well used ones look like.

Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I bought
recently have had).

clive

Clive George said:

Quoted message said:

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the road
to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings so know
what both new and well used ones look like.

Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I bought
recently have had).

No.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Quoted message said:

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the
road to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings
so know what both new and well used ones look like.

Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I
bought recently have had).

No.

Ok, I'll rephrase it then.

The last couple of 36t 110mm TA chainrings I have bought have had little steps on one side of the
valley. (these were new chainrings). I've just checked, and they're still there now.

clive

Clive George said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I
bought recently have had).

No.

Ok, I'll rephrase it then.

The last couple of 36t 110mm TA chainrings I have bought have had little steps on one side of the
valley. (these were new chainrings).

New when? I'm wondering how many miles you've done on yours already.

Quoted message said:

I've just checked, and they're still there now.

I'm not sure what you mean but I doubt it's relevant. The tips of the teeth are profiled and the
chainrings do have several "half" teeth (to aid shfting) but this is not what I'm talking about.
Thanks anyway.

New TA chainring teeth are symmetrical when viewed from the side and feel smooth between the teeth
when tested with a fingernail. I'm sure of this because I've checked a brand new new TA ring I
fitted last Thursday, and even two others that I've been using for a few months show little sign of
wear at all. The used one in question has slightly shark-like teeth with ridges on the bottom edges
(where the chain rollers contact). It's all definitely caused by wear. My only doubt is about how
much useage on a track bike would cause this. (I know those guys really hammer their machinery :-)

I've owned 5 TA chainrings of various sizes over the last 4 years and they're all basically of
the same design. I've done several thousand miles on a couple of them (some of that with a
worn-out chain) and even these don't look "twice as worn" as this "new" second-hand one, if you
know what I mean.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" wrote

Quoted message said:

I've just bought a used TA 50t chainring via eBay (for more than peanuts). It was described as
"brand new (used once on for a pursuit on the track)".

Nevermind the obvious contradiction between brand new and used, but how much wear could result
from one track pursuit?

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the road
to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings so know
what both new and well used ones look like.

I've got no personal experience with track riding. Are the extra stresses on the track so much
greater that a chainring can be this worn after just one race?

Thanks for any help. I'm considering asking for a discount or refund. EBay's feedback is a handy
facility, isn't it :-)

~PB (no digital camera or scanner so can't post a picture easily)

On the occasions that I've sold items on e-bay, prospective buyers have asked me to e-mail them
close up pictures of specific parts of the item for sale, or pictures taken from a particular
perspective. This is not a difficult task for someone with a digital camera, even a cheap POS
camera like mine. Perhaps you could have asked for a close up picture of the chainring teeth before
placing a bid?
--
mark

mark said:

On the occasions that I've sold items on e-bay, prospective buyers have asked me to e-mail them
close up pictures of specific parts of the item for sale, or pictures taken from a particular
perspective. This is not a difficult task for someone with a digital camera, even a cheap POS
camera like mine. Perhaps you could have asked for a close up picture of the chainring teeth
before placing a bid?

How does that help me now? Yes it is a good idea but the seller didn't have any pictures at all.
I've certainly learnt my lesson, but would still appreciate any technical replies to help me decide
on how much refund to claim if any. Any track riders in the house?

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Quoted message said:

> Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I
> bought recently have had).

No.

Ok, I'll rephrase it then.

The last couple of 36t 110mm TA chainrings I have bought have had little steps on one side of
the valley. (these were new chainrings).

New when? I'm wondering how many miles you've done on yours already.

Last Oct, and sometime before that. 2000 mi or so on this one. I remember being a bit surprised at
this tooth profile, but haven't met any problems with it. Now these could have a different profile
to the ones you get, as mine are 110mm = MTB, and they are advertised as being different to avoid
chain suck.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've just checked, and they're still there now.

I'm not sure what you mean but I doubt it's relevant. The tips of the teeth are profiled and the
chainrings do have several "half" teeth (to aid shfting) but this is not what I'm talking about.
Thanks anyway.

It isn't what I'm talking about either...

Quoted message said:

New TA chainring teeth are symmetrical when viewed from the side and feel smooth between the teeth
when tested with a fingernail. I'm sure of this because I've checked a brand new new TA ring I
fitted last Thursday, and even two others that I've been using for a few months show little sign
of wear at all. The used one in question has slightly shark-like teeth with ridges on the bottom
edges (where the chain rollers contact). It's all definitely caused by wear. My only doubt is
about how much useage on a track bike would cause this. (I know those guys really hammer their
machinery :-)

and they use 1/8" rather than 3/32" normally

Quoted message said:

I've owned 5 TA chainrings of various sizes over the last 4 years and they're all basically of
the same design. I've done several thousand miles on a couple of them (some of that with a
worn-out chain) and even these don't look "twice as worn" as this "new" second-hand one, if you
know what I mean.

If the tooth is even slightly flared where the chain roller touches it, that's unacceptable wear
imo. (far too much experience of chainsuck attributable to such things).

Certainly the original advert implied very little wear ("brand new"😉, so I'd probably say send it
back/get a refund.

cheers, clive

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:38:15 +0100, "Clive George"

Quoted message said:

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the road
to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings so know
what both new and well used ones look like.

Don't new TA rings have a little step in the bottom of the valley? (fairly sure the ones I bought
recently have had).

A few years ago, TA. introduced a chainring tooth profile they called "Contact". Quoting from one of
their brochures:

"TA has produced an asymmetric tooth construction 'Contact'. It is the first of its type and shortly
will be patented. 'Contact' ensures the longer life of your chainring because it exerts the most
amount of force directly on the chain roller on the pulling side of the chainring tooth. The scooped
machining of the bottom of the tooth eliminates the effect of mud and water when the components make
'Contact' even in the very worst conditions, premature wearing of componentry is reduced. Chain to
ring mesh is totally unaffected by the new TA concept which in its entirety now offers what is
probably the best chainring gear changes".

When the 'Contact' profile appeared, I promptly stopped listing TA's
1/8" chainrings for 144 bolt pattern cranks in our track catalog. Insofar as I know, 'Contact'
'rings work competently (even if they don't have the magic qualities claimed in the brochure), but
I couldn't see having to try to explain this over and again to customers when I had high quality
ungimmicked track chainrings from another mfr at a similar price point to offer.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles Miami,
Florida 305-273-4440
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now in our twentieth year. Our catalogue of track equipment: seventh
year online

Clive George wrote: /snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's all definitely caused by wear. My only doubt is about how much useage on a track bike would
cause this. (I know those guys really hammer their machinery :-)

and they use 1/8" rather than 3/32" normally

That's the internal width rather than pitch*, I believe. Could that make any difference to wear?

* www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html

Quoted message said:

If the tooth is even slightly flared where the chain roller touches it, that's unacceptable wear
imo. (far too much experience of chainsuck attributable to such things).

Thanks Clive. That gives me more confidence.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George wrote: /snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's all definitely caused by wear. My only doubt is about how much useage on a track bike
would cause this. (I know those guys really hammer their machinery :-)

and they use 1/8" rather than 3/32" normally

That's the internal width rather than pitch*, I believe. Could that make any difference to wear?

yup. Obviously the fatter ring will have more resistance to eg flaring, as there's more area for the
chain to push on.

The relevance is that if the seller was using a 3/32" ring where people normally use 1/8", it could
wear quite a lot faster than normal.

(if it were pitch, you'd end up with a very silly chain! But imagine the gearing increments you
could have..)

cheers, clive

Quoted message said:

Any track riders in the house?

Maybe also try this one in rec.bicycles.racing, you'll propably find more trackies there.

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mark said:

On the occasions that I've sold items on e-bay, prospective buyers have asked me to e-mail them
close up pictures of specific parts of the item for sale, or pictures taken from a particular
perspective. This is not a difficult task for someone with a digital camera, even a cheap POS
camera like mine. Perhaps you could have asked for a close up picture of the chainring teeth
before placing a bid?

How does that help me now? Yes it is a good idea but the seller didn't have any pictures at all.
I've certainly learnt my lesson, but would still appreciate any technical replies to help me
decide on how much refund to claim if any. Any track riders in the house?

~PB

Ronald said:

Quoted message said:

Any track riders in the house?

Maybe also try this one in rec.bicycles.racing, you'll propably find more trackies there.

I can't get any messages to download from that group. Is it still going ok? I tried "resetting" my
local file.

cheers ~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ronald said:

Quoted message said:

Any track riders in the house?

Maybe also try this one in rec.bicycles.racing, you'll propably find more trackies there.

I can't get any messages to download from that group. Is it still going ok? I tried "resetting" my
local file.

cheers ~PB

Unless you like being insulted, don't bother with rbr. Lots of flame wars over there. Not many
trackies there anyway.

Mike

John Dacey said:

A few years ago, TA. introduced a chainring tooth profile they called "Contact". Quoting from one
of their brochures:

"TA has produced an asymmetric tooth construction 'Contact'. It is the first of its type and
shortly will be patented. 'Contact' ensures the longer life of your chainring because it exerts
the most amount of force directly on the chain roller on the pulling side of the chainring tooth.
The scooped machining of the bottom of the tooth eliminates the effect of mud and water when the
components make 'Contact' even in the very worst conditions, premature wearing of componentry is
reduced. Chain to ring mesh is totally unaffected by the new TA concept which in its entirety now
offers what is probably the best chainring gear changes".

John, Thank you very much. I'm very embarrassed!! This ring is probably is indeed one of the
"Contact Profile" models. I've just dug out a card that came with one of my previous TA rings (40t)
and the diagrams show teeth that do look like the ones of the new ring I have, even complete with
the little ridges.

It's weird and confusing because:
a) I can't recall noticing these details before
b) The profile really does look similar to what you see on worn-out rings!
c) The other TA ring I just bought (new elsewhere) is definitely not Contact Profile and has
regular teeth.

I still think it's likely that it's been used at least a little bit more than described though -
especially because of the scratching on the front, but I'm now prepared to give the seller the
benefit of the doubt and I'll keep the ring.

cheers ~PB [message x-posted to r.b.t, r.b.m and uk.rec.cycling]

Pete Biggs said:

John Dacey said:

A few years ago, TA. introduced a chainring tooth profile they called "Contact". Quoting from one
of their brochures:

"TA has produced an asymmetric tooth construction 'Contact'. It is the

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the best chainring gear changes".

John, Thank you very much. I'm very embarrassed!! This ring is probably is indeed one of the
"Contact Profile" models. I've just dug out a card that came with one of my previous TA rings (40t)
and the diagrams show teeth that do look like the ones of the new ring I have, even complete with
the little ridges.

You're not the only one to be caught out on this. The arrival of "Contact" came without fanfare,
or even acknowledgement of the change on TA's packaging. When they first came out, I took back a
few I had sold as "defective" and didn't become aware of it until I contacted the supplier I'd
gotten them from to return them for credit. It was only then did I discover that "it's not a flaw,
it's a feature".

Quoted message said:

It's weird and confusing because:
a) I can't recall noticing these details before
b) The profile really does look similar to what you see on worn-out rings!
c) The other TA ring I just bought (new elsewhere) is definitely not Contact Profile and has
regular teeth.

I also have some TA track (1/8"😉 chainrings they do for cranks with 130 bolt patterns in stock that
have normal teeth. Go figure.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles Miami,
Florida 305-273-4440
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now in our twentieth year. Our catalogue of track equipment: seventh
year online

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've just bought a used TA 50t chainring via eBay (for more than peanuts). It was described as
"brand new (used once on for a pursuit on the track)".

Nevermind the obvious contradiction between brand new and used, but how much wear could result
from one track pursuit?

The teeth on this ring are noticeably hooked and have distinct ridges on the bottom of the
"valleys". The wear seems the equivalent of several hundred miles (at the very least) on the road
to me - with ordinary road bike & cycling, and I do have specific experience of TA rings so know
what both new and well used ones look like.

I've got no personal experience with track riding. Are the extra stresses on the track so much
greater that a chainring can be this worn after just one race?

Thanks for any help. I'm considering asking for a discount or refund. EBay's feedback is a handy
facility, isn't it :-)

I have seen a Campagnolo chainring completely ruined in less than fifty miles of riding after being
run with an overtightened fixed chain. So it is possible to be both "nearly new" and "dead".

Whatever happened IMHO you were sold a chainring with no useful life remaining and he should refund
your paymnet if all is as you describe.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

A Muzi said:

I have seen a Campagnolo chainring completely ruined in less than fifty miles of riding after
being run with an overtightened fixed chain. So it is possible to be both "nearly new" and "dead".

Whatever happened IMHO you were sold a chainring with no useful life remaining and he should
refund your paymnet if all is as you describe.

As I explained in previous replies, I was mistaken and this TA ring is a "Contact Profile" model
with asymetric teeth.

In any case, "no useful life" would have been an exaggeration. It sort of looks like a regular ring
when it's _partly_ worn, not completely worn out.

~PB