Chain Waxing Followup

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

If you have the capability to measure chain wear easily, adding that
data would be very helpful.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
squeaking, but rather shifting performance. I can't tell you how many "hot
waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"HarryB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

In article <[email hidden]>,

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work."

You have an odd way of showing it.

Quoted message said:

I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

--
Michael Press

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

Quoted message said:

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine? If
someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to get
an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be acceptable
to everyone?

We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their Ultegra
6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons it
won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also read
that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.

We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we really
can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets it
back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things). So
the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something that's
not standard "works fine."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?

Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
myself since 1990.

Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
ridden with all those years.

If

Quoted message said:

someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to get
an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be acceptable
to everyone?

We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their Ultegra
6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons it
won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also read
that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.

We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we really
can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets it
back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things). So
the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something that's
not standard "works fine."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

Quoted message said:

Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
myself since 1990.

Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
ridden with all those years.

No soft put-down intended, just personal experience. And didn't know you
were a "waxer." I guess this is the ultimate "Your Mileage May Vary" sort of
thing. Our experiences are quite different. Maybe it's those junk Trek bikes
we sell? :>😉

Anyway, we've gone too long without a serious disagreement on something, so
I'm relieved that the world now seems to be back in order again.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?

Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
myself since 1990.

Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
ridden with all those years.

If

Quoted message said:

someone is willing to put up with less-than-optimal shifting in order to
get
an unusual gear combination to work, does that mean it would be
acceptable
to everyone?

We get customers who will come in requesting a 39t middle for their
Ultegra
6503 crankset (stock is 30/42/52) and tell us that a friend of their 3rd
cousin says it works fine, no reason not to do it. We explain the reasons
it
won't work as well as stock, but they'll have none of that, because the
friend of their 3rd cousin says it works fine, and besides, they also
read
that it worked fine in newsgroups. Have they ridden a bike with that
arrangement? No. But they've heard it works fine. Of course, we have a
history with the customer, and know that this guy is pretty picky about
stuff, so we very reluctantly agree to do the work for him.

We make the change, adjust things as best we can, but notice that we
really
can't get it to shift from the 39 to the 30 nearly as well as before...
quite a bit of hesitation. It will eventually drop down, but you have to
plan ahead a bit, and really ease off on the pressure. The customer gets
it
back, rides it, and is quite upset that it doesn't work as well as it did
with the 42. "Your mechanics don't know what they're doing" (which would
include me, since I'm the most-experienced mechanic, among other things).
So
the guy leaves, mad, planning never to come back again etc. A few months
later we find that he's essentially "gone through" a number of shops, and
about a year later he's back with us, with a bit less attitude and a bit
more appreciation for what it means when someone says that something
that's
not standard "works fine."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HarryB wrote:
> I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
> observations:
>
> 1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
> (I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
> guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)
>
> 2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.
>
> 3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
> occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
> but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
> know why.
>
> HarryB
> PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
> "work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
squeaking, but rather shifting performance. I can't tell you how many "hot
waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike, with all due respects, hot waxing does not deteriorate shift
performance. By hot waxing, I don't mean the double boiler getting
the wax to melt. I mean wax that is liquified at 300 F. Wax means
parrafin and not melted candles. The modern, thin chains, stay supple
and free moving, even when dry and not lubed...when they are clean.
Most waxers, include small amounts of oil in the wax blend. I use
about a shot glass of oil to ½ lb. of wax.

In support of your conclusion, I built up a bike that did Ragbrai 2
seasons. The owner only used if for that event. For the 3rd year she
complained about skipped shifts before packing up the bike. She had
not touched the chain since I built it. I no longer wax new builds
but use Prolink and give some to the owners.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

There are a number of things that some might say "work" but don't work as
well as they could. If you don't know any better, does that make it fine?

Ah! The soft put down from the Trek dealer! This dog of yours won't
hunt. I don't "force feed" hot waxing to others, but I have done it
myself since 1990.

Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
ridden with all those years.

What drivetrain are you using? Have you used this technique on 9 or
10 speed systems?

Jeff

Jeff Starr wrote:

<snipped>

-on waxing chains and shifting performance-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's my personal experience: I tried waxing solely in an attempt to
have a clean drive train. Unexpected benefits included longer cog,
chainring and chain life. Did shifting performance suffer? Never. My
bikes shift *at least* as well as any among the various groups I've
ridden with all those years.

What drivetrain are you using? Have you used this technique on 9 or
10 speed systems?

On my bikes:

Bike A is 7SP Shimano, barend shifters w/ either a DA or Regina America
1992 FW, depending on terrain.

Bike B is 8SP Shimano, barend shifters w/HG cassette.

Bike C is Shimano "8 of 9" on a 7SP freehub, barend shifters.

So, personally, I've used waxed chains on 7, 8 and 9SP cog spacing. In
all cases, shifting performance was A-OK.

I have set up both Campy and Shimano bikes in 8/9/10SP with waxed
chains (at customer's request). Again, shifting was A-OK.

Werehatrack said:

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

If you have the capability to measure chain wear easily, adding that
data would be very helpful.

Great idea! The present measurements are 24 1/16" for 24 links and
~50% on the maligned Park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker. The chain has 2,660
miles on it, with about 1,600 of those waxed.

HarryB

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

The issue with hot waxing a chain isn't about protecting the chain or
squeaking, but rather shifting performance.

I didn't know that someone had decided that the issue with hot waxing
is shifting performance. *My* issue with hot waxing is that it meets
my requirements better than other methods I've tried. I have not had
problems with shifting that I have attributed to hot waxing.

Of course, I recognize that I am a beginner compared to many who post
here (I've only ridden about 10,000 miles since I started bike riding
2 1/2 years ago). Maybe as I gain more experience I will become more
discriminating and discover disadvantages with the way I hot wax, but
for now it meets my requirements.

Quoted message said:

I can't tell you how many "hot
waxers" (which were especially prevalent in the 90s, for whatever reason)
would come in complaining their bikes weren't shifting well. We'd re-lube
the chain with more-conventional products, and voila, shifting problem gone.
This repeated itself far too many times to be any sort of random thing.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

HarryB

Ozark Bicycle said:

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

No, I haven't.

HarryB

HarryB said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

HarryB said:

I just rewaxed (with pure paraffin) my chain and post the following
observations:

1) I got about 900 (898 to be exact) miles between waxings this time
(I didn't keep detailed notes of my prior waxing frequency, but
guessed I got upwards of 700 miles between waxings.)

2) All miles were ridden on pavement and none in the rain.

3) During the last couple hundred miles or so I would get some
occasional squeaking during the last half of longer rides (40+ miles),
but would not hear any squeaking on rides that were shorter. I don't
know why.

HarryB
PS: I am uninterested in hearing about why hot waxing a chain doesn't
"work." I'm simply posting this as an FYI.

And have you experienced the allegedly common "shifting problems"?

No, I haven't.

Me neither.