Chain Troubleshooting

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a few
weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super Galaxy
on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved, second-hand,
cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when I
am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself if
I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike has
to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.

In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and rear
derailleurs.

Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out with
the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to my LBS
and start with something simpler?

Yes, it's a good job to start on.
Does the chain come off at the front or back - does it come off when
changing gear?
Park Tools and Sheldon Brown are two good sites for info on maintenance.
Peter

peter-potato said:

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a few
weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super Galaxy
on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved, second-hand,
cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when I
am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself if
I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike has
to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.

In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and rear
derailleurs.

Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out with
the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to my LBS
and start with something simpler?

Yes, it's a good job to start on.
Does the chain come off at the front or back - does it come off when
changing gear?
Park Tools and Sheldon Brown are two good sites for info on maintenance.
Peter

Hi Peter. It comes off at the front and it does happen when trying to
change gear. Also, after changing gear up the chain often sounds very
rough but changing two gears up and one down seems to solve this.

Simon

Simon Wolf wrote on 22/04/2007 22:24 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Hi Peter. It comes off at the front and it does happen when trying to
change gear. Also, after changing gear up the chain often sounds very
rough but changing two gears up and one down seems to solve this.

Sounds like the deraileurs need some adjustment rather than the chain
etc. The Shimano instructions that come with a new deraileur are pretty
good for setting one up but otherwise
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
is excellent too.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tony Raven said:

Simon Wolf wrote on 22/04/2007 22:24 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Hi Peter. It comes off at the front and it does happen when trying to
change gear. Also, after changing gear up the chain often sounds very
rough but changing two gears up and one down seems to solve this.

Sounds like the deraileurs need some adjustment rather than the chain
etc. The Shimano instructions that come with a new deraileur are pretty
good for setting one up but otherwise
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
is excellent too.

Lovely, thanks Tony.

Following on from Simon Wolf's message. . .

(1) Front gear adjustment is 'easy'. A book from the library is worth
getting because (a) it will tell you about this issue and (b) lots of
other things that will probably be irrelevant or far too involved...
....but good background information for the next time.

(2) There are basically two failure modes for front chain wheels
(a) Chain 'farts' under pressure. The gear wheel is worn after many
years of service. (Possibly the chain is very worn as well.) Solution
= Replace gear wheels.

(b) Chain doesn't move properly between gears.

To deal with 2b (this is the common situation - I had it today) there
are two _types_ of adjustment each with two sub-adjustments. You may
have to jiggle between these to get to the end result.

Limits: On the lever arm that is pulled out from the frame by the gear
cable should be two screws. One sets the limit of inside travel and the
other the outer. Experiment. For example suppose you were changing
down into bottom gear and the chain falls off! Tweak the appropriate
screw to move the limit out. (You may be able to feel the lever assembly
moving as you tweak.)

Cable: From your description (which was better than I could put into
words) when you change it doesn't quite happen. There are often two
ways to adjust this. The rough and ready method which is by trapping the
cable at a certain point in the actuating lever (usually involving an
Allen key) which gives a rough setting. (set up in 1st). The second way
is by a fine-tune mechanism on the gear shifter. On mine I turn a
knobbly nut surrounding the cable as it goes into the shifter mechanism.
Learn which way is which (twiddle while fondling gear mechanism).
Experiment.

My guess is that you don't know about the fine-tune gear adjusters. 5
minutes of experiment without tools and your problem is solved. [NB If
not then please call again]

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the e-commerce business came to a .
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My guess is that you don't know about the fine-tune gear adjusters. 5
minutes of experiment without tools and your problem is solved. [NB If
not then please call again]

I don't think it's true on all derailleurs, but the ones on my bike are
'open' in that you can see the adjusting screws going through them and see
exactly how they work. This is particularly useful if you can't remember
which is the high and which is the low one!
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

in message <[email hidden]>,

Simon Wolf (') said:

peter-potato said:

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a
few
weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super
Galaxy
on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved,
second-hand,
cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when
I am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself
if I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike
has to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.

In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and
rear derailleurs.

Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out
with the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to
my LBS and start with something simpler?

Yes, it's a good job to start on.
Does the chain come off at the front or back - does it come off when
changing gear?
Park Tools and Sheldon Brown are two good sites for info on maintenance.
Peter

Hi Peter. It comes off at the front and it does happen when trying to
change gear. Also, after changing gear up the chain often sounds very
rough but changing two gears up and one down seems to solve this.

Inside or outside?

Falling off the outside is a matter of adjusting the high limit screw on
the front derailleur inwards (clockwise) a little - too much and you won't
be able to get onto the big ring. With a trimmable front (old friction
shifters or top-end Campagnolo) you can recover an off-the-outside chain
as you ride, simply by trimming back a little.

Off the inside is trickier. It's usually a symptom of poor chainline and
again it's worse on Shimano indexed systems; but off-the-inside is usually
not recoverable without getting off anyway. Screw in the low limit screw
on the front derailleur (clockwise) a little, but this is a sensitive
adjustment. If you can't get it to work any other way, fit a dogtooth.

http://www.mybikeholiday.com/photo_bike_vacation/bike_accessory,400.JPG

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

Peter Fox said:

Following on from Simon Wolf's message. . .

(1) Front gear adjustment is 'easy'. A book from the library is worth
getting because (a) it will tell you about this issue and (b) lots of
other things that will probably be irrelevant or far too involved...
...but good background information for the next time.

Got one, well a couple actually.

Quoted message said:

(2) There are basically two failure modes for front chain wheels
(a) Chain 'farts' under pressure. The gear wheel is worn after many
years of service. (Possibly the chain is very worn as well.) Solution
= Replace gear wheels.

(b) Chain doesn't move properly between gears.

This is my problem.

Quoted message said:

To deal with 2b (this is the common situation - I had it today) there
are two _types_ of adjustment each with two sub-adjustments. You may
have to jiggle between these to get to the end result.

Limits: On the lever arm that is pulled out from the frame by the gear
cable should be two screws. One sets the limit of inside travel and the
other the outer. Experiment. For example suppose you were changing
down into bottom gear and the chain falls off! Tweak the appropriate
screw to move the limit out. (You may be able to feel the lever assembly
moving as you tweak.)

Thanks peter. This solved my problem.

Quoted message said:

Cable: From your description (which was better than I could put into
words) when you change it doesn't quite happen. There are often two
ways to adjust this. The rough and ready method which is by trapping the
cable at a certain point in the actuating lever (usually involving an
Allen key) which gives a rough setting. (set up in 1st). The second way
is by a fine-tune mechanism on the gear shifter. On mine I turn a
knobbly nut surrounding the cable as it goes into the shifter mechanism.
Learn which way is which (twiddle while fondling gear mechanism).
Experiment.

I twiddled with the knob for a while and ended up with a situation where
the second smallest cog was aways skipped going both up and down through
the gears to I took my bike to my LBS for some advice about this once I
had re-aligned the deraliers and they think that it might be caused by
the gear levers. As my new bike is only a few weeks away I think that I
will live with the problem and then what I have some extra cash in a few
months I will replace the whole gear system myself as a project.

Quoted message said:

My guess is that you don't know about the fine-tune gear adjusters. 5
minutes of experiment without tools and your problem is solved. [NB If
not then please call again]

Thank you for the advice. At least I should now be able to ride without
the chain falling off all the time!

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

Simon Wolf (') said:

peter-potato said:

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a
> few
> weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super
> Galaxy
> on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
> LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved,
> second-hand,
> cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when
> I am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself
> if I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike
> has to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.
>
> In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
> think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
> check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and
> rear derailleurs.
>
> Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out
> with the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to
> my LBS and start with something simpler?
>

Yes, it's a good job to start on.
Does the chain come off at the front or back - does it come off when
changing gear?
Park Tools and Sheldon Brown are two good sites for info on maintenance.
Peter

Hi Peter. It comes off at the front and it does happen when trying to
change gear. Also, after changing gear up the chain often sounds very
rough but changing two gears up and one down seems to solve this.

Inside or outside?

Falling off the outside is a matter of adjusting the high limit screw on
the front derailleur inwards (clockwise) a little - too much and you won't
be able to get onto the big ring. With a trimmable front (old friction
shifters or top-end Campagnolo) you can recover an off-the-outside chain
as you ride, simply by trimming back a little.

Off the inside is trickier. It's usually a symptom of poor chainline and
again it's worse on Shimano indexed systems; but off-the-inside is usually
not recoverable without getting off anyway. Screw in the low limit screw
on the front derailleur (clockwise) a little, but this is a sensitive
adjustment. If you can't get it to work any other way, fit a dogtooth.

http://www.mybikeholiday.com/photo_bike_vacation/bike_accessory,400.JPG

Thanks Simon. Some derailleur tweaking solved the problem (for now) and
it was coming off on the inside. I also have a problem with the rear
cassette where gears skip but this apparently is most likely linked to
my Shimano gear selector and I can live with it until my new bike
arrives.

Simon

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a few
weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super Galaxy
on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved, second-hand,
cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when I
am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself if
I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike has
to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.

In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and rear
derailleurs.

Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out with
the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to my LBS
and start with something simpler?

Thanks.

Simon

Hi Simon,

I know this is late... but here's a video I found on YouTube that you might
have wanted to see:

Cheers,

Akin

--
akyak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Aluminium Apple said:

"Simon Wolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of you may remember me asking for advice about touring bikes a few
weeks ago. The good news is that I currently have a Dawes Super Galaxy
on order. The bad news is that it will be a few more weeks before my
LBS get it. In the meantime I am using a somewhat unloved, second-hand,
cheap 'mountain bike'. However, twice now the chain has come off when I
am riding it and I am planning on diagnosing and repairing it myself if
I can, especially because the chance to tinker on a ropey old bike has
to be better than playing with a new, expensive one.

In what order should I be looking into the problem. At the moment I
think that I should check the chain for stretching, wear or damage,
check the cranks and cassette for wear and then check the front and rear
derailleurs.

Is this the sort of work that a newcomer to bicycles can carry out with
the aid of a good book and web guides or should I just take it to my LBS
and start with something simpler?

Thanks.

Simon

Hi Simon,

I know this is late... but here's a video I found on YouTube that you might
have wanted to see:

Cheers,

Akin

HI Akin,

I never thought of looking on YouTube for maintenance videos so,
although it is a bit late thank you because I will ferret around and see
what else I can uncover.

All the best,

Simon

In article <[email hidden]>,
Simon Wolf
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I also have a problem with the rear
cassette where gears skip but this apparently is most likely linked to
my Shimano gear selector and I can live with it until my new bike
arrives.

Could be a sticky cable - if you have slotted cable stops you can
probably lubricate it without removing or adjusting anything.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Simon Wolf
[email hidden] says...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I also have a problem with the rear
cassette where gears skip but this apparently is most likely linked to
my Shimano gear selector and I can live with it until my new bike
arrives.

Could be a sticky cable - if you have slotted cable stops you can
probably lubricate it without removing or adjusting anything.

I'll check that out, thanks Rob.