Chain lube comparison

"Ken C. M." wrote: (clip) My opinion: Teflon lubes might be suitable for
other conditions, however in dry areas / conditions the wax based lube is
clearly a better choice. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ken, if I read your post correctly, you compared one teflon lube to one
wax-based lube. While I think your method of comparison has some validity,
I also think you over-generalized by saying "Teflon lubes may be suitable
for other conditions...". "Teflon lubes" encompases a large number of
products, and your comparison was based on only one.

Further, I am not convinced that an accumulation of oily or waxy dirt on the
outside of a chain is particularly harmful. The area of a chain that
carries load, and that wears, is the inside contact of the rollers to the
pins, and the outside contact of the rollers with the teeth. Do we know
whether the two types of lube you compared differ in the accumulation of
dirt in those two areas?

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ken C. M." wrote: (clip) My opinion: Teflon lubes might be suitable for
other conditions, however in dry areas / conditions the wax based lube is
clearly a better choice. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ken, if I read your post correctly, you compared one teflon lube to one
wax-based lube. While I think your method of comparison has some validity,
I also think you over-generalized by saying "Teflon lubes may be suitable
for other conditions...". "Teflon lubes" encompases a large number of
products, and your comparison was based on only one.

Very true, perhaps further testing would produce more / better results.
Perhaps if I had more bikes / riders that could all ride similar number
of miles under similar conditions the results could / would be more
accurate.

Quoted message said:

Further, I am not convinced that an accumulation of oily or waxy dirt on the
outside of a chain is particularly harmful. The area of a chain that
carries load, and that wears, is the inside contact of the rollers to the
pins, and the outside contact of the rollers with the teeth. Do we know
whether the two types of lube you compared differ in the accumulation of
dirt in those two areas?

Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner lube
is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is probably
collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as well. In my
opinion.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
evaporate, it's extremely clean.

It's kind of a yawn issue though. People spend way too much time
obsessing over their chains. Clean it, lube it, wipe the outside dry,
then get on with your life.

Ken C. M. said:

Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner lube
is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is probably
collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as well. In my
opinion.

The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
the chain remains clean.

What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?

The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
chain that attracts dirt to the chain.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"

landotter said:

If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
evaporate, it's extremely clean.

If you mean wiping the outside of the chain after letting the carrier
evaporate, this was part of my method.

Quoted message said:

It's kind of a yawn issue though. People spend way too much time
obsessing over their chains. Clean it, lube it, wipe the outside dry,
then get on with your life.

Right you are. But this was just a test to compare what I had been using
(PED) and a bottle of some stuff (RRL) that was given to me by the owner
of the shop where I bought my 'bent.

Ken (O.C.D.) M.
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

SMS said:

Ken C. M. said:

Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner
lube is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is
probably collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as
well. In my opinion.

The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
the chain remains clean.

Well lube threads seem to take on a life of thier own here. Everyone has
a favorite. Everyone thinks one type is better than another. The truth
is chains are a consumable.

Quoted message said:

What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?

Well I am not on the inside of the formula of RRL, so I do not know what
else is in there.

Quoted message said:

The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
chain that attracts dirt to the chain.

So is it better to lube or not to lube, that is the question. I say lube
with a dry wax type lube. Just my 2 cents.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

SMS said:

What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?

The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
chain that attracts dirt to the chain.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"

Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
back them up?

SMS said:

Ken C. M. said:

Again you are right of course, but in my opinion if the wax cleaner
lube is collection less grime on the outside of the chain, it is
probably collecting less on the more critical parts of the chain as
well. In my opinion.

The real issue is how well the wax based lube is actually lubricating.
Hot waxing chains is ineffective in terms of lubrication, even though
the chain remains clean.

What else is in the wax cleaner lube? Does it re-flow after it's quickly
scraped away by the links and rollers moving against each other?

The crux of the chain lube debate seems to be centered around whether a
clean chain that isn't lubricated is better than a properly lubricated
chain that attracts dirt to the chain.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"

I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the worst
stuff I ever tried on a chain.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

Ken C. M. said:

I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
it works for you.

That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Ken C. M. said:

I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
it works for you.

That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.

Well I guess it depends mostly on the conditions that you ride in. Here
in mostly dry south Florida it's dry, except for when you get caught in
a summer thunderstorm. So most of the time it is pretty dusty and all
the wet type lubricants I have tried just get clogged with dust and dirt
too quickly.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

Ken C. M. said:

I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the worst
stuff I ever tried on a chain.

I don't use chainsaw oil, I use foaming chain lube. For those that
remove their chain and soak it in oil, using chainsaw oil is about the
best option.

I strongly agree with the following statement, because it is based on
factual information of the actual properties of the lubricant:

"...motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because
they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their
relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean,
works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing
surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any
water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks."

I've never used synthetic two-stroke oil, but if it's like most
multi-weight motor oils, it's not suitable for chain lubrication.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"

Pat Lamb said:

Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
back them up?

I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately. If it
can stop just a few people from irrational activities, then it's worth
the $6, and the affiliate fees that are generated are usually sufficient
to cover the small cost.

What do you regard as pompous? The fact that I simply restate what
nearly everyone already knows, that wax is ineffective as a lubricant?

Zoot Katz said:

That's what I started using after trying waxes. I found a gallon of
the winter grade stuff. What I like about it is that it lasts a long
time in this wet climate. About four times longer than wax in winter.
The cassette and idler pulleys seem to get scummier but the
lubrication keeps working. Chain saw bar oil is good stuff.

It is unsurprising that the best lubricant for chains is a lubricant
that is designed specifically for chains.

The fact that it works well, and is very inexpensive are also positives.
Why spend time and money using ineffective chain lubrication methods?

SMS said:

Ken C. M. said:

I just looked at your method. Bar and chain oil?!? Well ok, I guess if
it works for you. I tried synthetic two stroke oil and it was the
worst stuff I ever tried on a chain.

I don't use chainsaw oil, I use foaming chain lube. For those that
remove their chain and soak it in oil, using chainsaw oil is about the
best option.

I strongly agree with the following statement, because it is based on
factual information of the actual properties of the lubricant:

"...motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because
they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their
relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean,
works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing
surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any
water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks."

I've never used synthetic two-stroke oil, but if it's like most
multi-weight motor oils, it's not suitable for chain lubrication.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"

Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's
like most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
quickly. Just curious what part of the world do you live in? Whats the
environment like? Wet? Dry? A good mix?

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

Ken C. M. said:

Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's
like most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
quickly. Just curious what part of the world do you live in? Whats the
environment like? Wet? Dry? A good mix?

Northern California. I spend very little time on chain maintenance.

I probably clean the chains a few times a year, and lube them every
month or so.

I was amazed to see that there are still people doing hot waxing, so
many years after it's been shown to be ineffective. The liquid stuff
like White Lightning is at least quick, and as long as you re-apply
often I guess it's got its benefits. I can't imagine bothering to
re-lube as often as is suggested for the liquid wax products.

Ken C. M. said:

Perhaps your method may be worth trying, just as a test, but if it's like
most of the other wet lubes I have tried it will get clogged to
quickly.

When you say "clogged", are you talking about appearance, or is it causing
functional problems? (Any you are wiping off excess lube, right?)

--
Benjamin Lewis

Ken C. M. said:

landotter said:

If you scrub your chain dry after letting the teflon lube's carrier
evaporate, it's extremely clean.

If you mean wiping the outside of the chain after letting the carrier
evaporate, this was part of my method.

'zactly. I use nickel plated chains and scrub them with a terry cloth
rag til they're dry and shiny.

But as another mentioned: chains are a consumable, I mainly lube mine
to keep it quiet, not to make it last longer.

SMS said:

Pat Lamb said:

Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
back them up?

I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately.

But all you've done is put up another collection of misinformation. I
wouldn't call it pompous, and it's perhaps well intentioned--but
otherwise pointless. You might as well be recommending Amour brand
lard.

landotter said:

SMS said:

Pat Lamb said:

Do you get your domains wholesale? Is it worth it to buy a new domain
every time you get called on pompous pronouncements without anything to
back them up?

I finally put up the chain web site as a result of all the
misinformation regarding waxing that has been popping up lately.

But all you've done is put up another collection of misinformation. I
wouldn't call it pompous, and it's perhaps well intentioned--but
otherwise pointless. You might as well be recommending Amour brand
lard.

Now now, I am SURE that chain lube has a higher degree of lubricity than
Amour brand lard! Perharp not much but definately some.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/