chain cleaner... yes or no?

Quoted message said:

I suspect that the ultrasonic cleaner (possibly underpowered?) doesn't
get at the only grime that really matters, namely the stuff inside the
pins and rollers.

I'm starting to wonder how well solvents do and whether it's actually
possible to clean the inside of a chain that's actually been oiled and
ridden a hundred miles.

Maybe ultrasonic cleaner with a solvent in the reservoir rather than
water?

Jasper

Matt O'Toole said:

Ask yourself how mechanics get things like piston ring grooves perfectly
clean. With enough soaking, even the toughest carbon deposits and varnish
come right out of the tightest spots.

The ones I've seen use an old ring snapped in half to scrape the groove
clean.

Jasper

Lou Holtman said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Gotta wonder if this is in the 'too much trouble and $' catagory. The
rollers where they hit the chainrings and cogs are going to be clean,
just cuz they are metal on metal...and it is a bicyclke chain, in the
open, and it is going to get 'dirty' almost instantly, as soon as you
start to ride. Is this amount of attention for a $20, disposable item
worth it? Cold, not gonna ride so just wondering.

I agree. Everyone who thinks he can clean the inside of a chain just
by shaking a bottle is mistaken IMO. If you want a shiny chain, just
wipe the outside clean and do that also before you relube. For the rest
lube regularly/often, measure the wear and replace the chain on time.
That's it.

Thirded. (And I'm negligent on the measuring part.) Every three weeks or
so, I run the chain thru a dry rag and then lube with White Lightning.
Every two months, maybe, I'll spray solvent on the rag first. My
chains/gears do fine with this. (Granted, I live in San Diego so hardly
ever any rain. Mountain bike demands/gets much more frequent lubing.)

Bill "minimal maintenance rider" S.

Quoted message said:

I've also tried chain cleaners and found them much more trouble than the
shaking in a plastic bottle method, which I first read about on
Sheldon's site (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html), for which you
do need a quick link, but those can be bought very cheaply if you didn't
get one with the chain.

But he leaves out the secret ingredient... heat! It makes all the difference
in the world when you dilute the simple green or whatever with very hot
water.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Ben C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2006-12-17, [email hidden] <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

wiscojohn said:

Dear all,
I am fairly new to cycling and as I sit here trying to clean up my
bike, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to invest in a chain
cleaner. My chain seems to get pretty dirty (city/path riding)
especially now that its winter. If not a chain cleaner, any other
suggestions? Thanks!

-J

I've tried the Park chain cleaner gizmo, and it was more trouble than
it was worth. I imagine the others are the same. Splatter, drips,
leaking solvent/soap, and not really clean chain. All it did was make a
mess. I have found it much easier and less messy to remove the chain
and drop it into a plastic jug with some solvent and shake it around. I
cut up som scotch-brite pads that I threw in there too in the hope they
would help scrub some of the gunk off. I doubt that works, but I did it
anyway.

I've also tried chain cleaners and found them much more trouble than the
shaking in a plastic bottle method, which I first read about on
Sheldon's site (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html), for which you
do need a quick link, but those can be bought very cheaply if you didn't
get one with the chain.

Quoted message said:

For me the big problem is finding the right solvent. White Spirit works
well, but what do I then do with all that nasty fluid? I have some
bio-degreaser from the auto parts store that seems to be a shade less
effective than Ivory soap! The only citrus stuff I could find was a
spray can of 3M for $50!!!

I don't think white spirit is that nasty or hard to dispose of (I use
paraffin, or kerosene as it is known in America). Reuse most of it once
the grime has sunk to the bottom, and as for the last bit, it doesn't
feel right to pour it down the drain but I reckon you might as well burn
it.

Paraffin etc. is much cheaper than those citrus solvents, and I worry
less about leaving a bit on there where it will just thin out the oil a
bit. The citrus stuff you have to wash off thoroughly and dry etc. and
I've never been good at that sort of thing.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nope, invest in a snap link, a toolless way to take the chain off...put
into a plastic milk jug, mineral spirits, shake, take out, let
dry..While it's drying, take chainrings off, pulleys out, cogs off,
clean all. Grease pulley innards, grease chainring bolts and flats
where the rings touch the crank...make all tight, put chain back
on...lube, ride the next day.

Are snap links available for C10 chains? I suppose you need a tool to
break the chain and then install the link - right? I'm guessing a snap
link is what we call a 'master link' on a motorcycle.

-paul

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I've also tried chain cleaners and found them much more trouble than the
shaking in a plastic bottle method, which I first read about on
Sheldon's site (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html), for which you
do need a quick link, but those can be bought very cheaply if you didn't
get one with the chain.

But he leaves out the secret ingredient... heat! It makes all the difference
in the world when you dilute the simple green or whatever with very hot
water.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Amen! Especially when the bike, chain, and solvent are in an unheated
garage in winter (around 35ish here, even colder elsewhere!) I don't
notice the difference between warmed and room-temp simple green in the
summer, but it makes a big difference in winter.

Mark J.

On 16 Dec 2006 18:28:58 -0800, "wiscojohn" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

Dear all,
I am fairly new to cycling and as I sit here trying to clean up my
bike, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to invest in a chain
cleaner. My chain seems to get pretty dirty (city/path riding)
especially now that its winter. If not a chain cleaner, any other
suggestions? Thanks!

IME, using a snaplink so that the chain can be removed for cleaning,
and a bottle of solvent in which to clean it, is generally going to
make less of a mess and get more crud out of the chain than trying to
clean the chain on the bike. The chain cleaner gadgets give variable
results and make variable levels of mess; one might be useful to you,
or it might convince you that cleaning the chain is a task better done
by someone else, among the possible outcomes.

Alternate methods of handling the issue include:

-- Simply ignoring the crud (the number one most popular method
globally, based on casual inspection of chains on bikes on the street)
-- Accepting that some crud will occur while wiping the excess off
with a solvent-soaked rag once in a while [the method recommended by
at least one chain manufacturer)
-- Using low-buildup "dry" lubricants to reduce the tendency of the
chain to accumulate crud (various users report that their dry lube is
very good at achieving this goal, while some others typically report
that the same lube is not worth a damn; I have no opinion to offer at
this time.)
-- Using heat-applied wax as a lubricant (which has a small number of
adherents but has failed to impress me with its effectiveness on the
occasions that I tried it)
-- And the aforementioned regime enabled by a snaplink and usually
employing a two-liter soda bottle about 1/3 full of solvent as the
cleaning vessel.

What you do is up to you. Remember this, regardless of the chain
cleaning and lubricating choices you make: Check the chain for wear
frequently, and replace it when the "stretch" reaches the point at
which it needs to be scrapped. If the period between replacements is
acceptable to you, then your chain choice, cleaning and lubrication
decisions have been good enough.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Paul Cassel said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nope, invest in a snap link, a toolless way to take the chain off...put
into a plastic milk jug, mineral spirits, shake, take out, let
dry..While it's drying, take chainrings off, pulleys out, cogs off,
clean all. Grease pulley innards, grease chainring bolts and flats
where the rings touch the crank...make all tight, put chain back
on...lube, ride the next day.

Are snap links available for C10 chains? I suppose you need a tool to
break the chain and then install the link - right? I'm guessing a snap
link is what we call a 'master link' on a motorcycle.

-paul

yep, the '6.05' for shimano and new Campag 5.9 chains, the 6.2 for
older Campag 10s, both from Wipperman.

In article <[email hidden]>,

catzz66 said:

Quoted message said:

If you'll recommend a brand of citrus cleaner, I'll try the wide-mouth
jar and shaking and then see what happens when I spray some WD40 on
the chain afterward and see what kind of paper towel results I get.

Simple Green works pretty good for me.

Me too!

....although Soylent Green works better...🙂

I just take my bike to the LBS and they will clean the chain in their
parts cleaner while I wait. ( most of the time )

The fluid in the ultra sonic gets replaced by a Hazmat truck so not for
home use.

HAND
Happy holidays

Bill Sornson said:

Lou Holtman said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Gotta wonder if this is in the 'too much trouble and $' catagory. The
rollers where they hit the chainrings and cogs are going to be clean,
just cuz they are metal on metal...and it is a bicyclke chain, in the
open, and it is going to get 'dirty' almost instantly, as soon as you
start to ride. Is this amount of attention for a $20, disposable item
worth it? Cold, not gonna ride so just wondering.

I agree. Everyone who thinks he can clean the inside of a chain just
by shaking a bottle is mistaken IMO. If you want a shiny chain, just
wipe the outside clean and do that also before you relube. For the rest
lube regularly/often, measure the wear and replace the chain on time.
That's it.

Thirded. (And I'm negligent on the measuring part.) Every three weeks or
so, I run the chain thru a dry rag and then lube with White Lightning.
Every two months, maybe, I'll spray solvent on the rag first. My
chains/gears do fine with this. (Granted, I live in San Diego so hardly
ever any rain. Mountain bike demands/gets much more frequent lubing.)

Bill "minimal maintenance rider" S.

I only ride in the dry on the Merckx...and once per month when I'm
riding a lot, I just change the chain...once per 2 months in th
winter...I don't really clean them much, I do the pulleys, CRs, and
cogs once in a while, once per month in the summer,,,use cheap
chains...Wholesale and 8s..not much $.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

..use cheap chains...Wholesale and 8s..not much $.

I do the same as you, Peter, but I seem to be the only one ho isn't happy
with cheap (SRAM) chains. I wipe them clean ans use Rohloff oil to lube
them, but after a few hundred km's, they all start making a lot of noise.

Gr, Derk

wiscojohn said:

Dear all,
I am fairly new to cycling and as I sit here trying to clean up my
bike, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to invest in a chain
cleaner. My chain seems to get pretty dirty (city/path riding)
especially now that its winter. If not a chain cleaner, any other
suggestions? Thanks!

Depends on the chain. To wit:

Although I prefer the SRAM chains with reusable quick links, I've got
a few bikes in the stable with Shimano chains, and I really don't like
the Shimano pin racket ($2 every time you clean a chain??). So when I
haven't kept the Shimano chain clean, and it has blocks of gunk in the
links, a chain cleaner gets that out.

As others have pointed out, a bottle of solvent cleans a chain off the
bike even better.

Pat

Email address works as is.

"H M Leary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simple Green works pretty good for me.

Me too!

...although Soylent Green works better...🙂

HAND
Happy holidays

"Soylent Green is people!"

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"H M Leary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simple Green works pretty good for me.

Me too!

...although Soylent Green works better...🙂

HAND
Happy holidays

"Soylent Green is people!"

Chas.

I stopped using citrus based degreasers because of what I saw after
using it on my nice shiny chainrings. Well, they ain't so shiny
anymore. I went back to using kerosene. A bit messier but gets the job
done better without the acid-etching.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"H M Leary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

>
> Simple Green works pretty good for me.

Me too!

...although Soylent Green works better...🙂

HAND
Happy holidays

"Soylent Green is people!"

Chas.

I stopped using citrus based degreasers because of what I saw after
using it on my nice shiny chainrings. Well, they ain't so shiny
anymore. I went back to using kerosene. A bit messier but gets the job
done better without the acid-etching.

Good point about the acidity of citrus based cleaners. I never thought
about it causing problems on aluminum.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I stopped using citrus based degreasers because of what I saw after
using it on my nice shiny chainrings. Well, they ain't so shiny
anymore. I went back to using kerosene. A bit messier but gets the job
done better without the acid-etching.

Quoted message said:

Good point about the acidity of citrus based cleaners. I never thought
about it causing problems on aluminum.

It's actually not acidic but caustic, like lye or oven cleaner. We
think of citrus as being acidic like orange juice, but the orange peel
extract used to make citrus degreaser (limonene) is actually caustic.

Yes, it will dull your aluminum.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I stopped using citrus based degreasers because of what I saw after
using it on my nice shiny chainrings. Well, they ain't so shiny
anymore. I went back to using kerosene. A bit messier but gets the

job

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

done better without the acid-etching.

Quoted message said:

Good point about the acidity of citrus based cleaners. I never thought
about it causing problems on aluminum.

It's actually not acidic but caustic, like lye or oven cleaner. We
think of citrus as being acidic like orange juice, but the orange peel
extract used to make citrus degreaser (limonene) is actually caustic.

Yes, it will dull your aluminum.

Matt O.

Flammable too! Ever squeeze a fresh citrus peel and light the mist with a
cigarette lighter?

Chas.

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 03:46:16 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Quoted message said:

If you don't have much time to spend cleaning your bike, a chain cleaner
might be the best way to go. Otherwise, you're better off removing the chain
and cleaning it off the bike. I use a wide-mouth plastic bottle (like the
type that "Vitamin Water" comes in), fill it about one-third with a citrus
cleaner, and one third *hot* water (from a tea kettle or coffee machine) and
dump the chain in. To be shaken, not stirred. You'll see the cleanest chain
you imagined possible emerge after a few minutes of shaking it up.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Dear Mike,

I recently acquired an ultrasonic cleaner that must have fallen off
the back of Santa's sleigh after he loaded up at Harbor Freight.

I'd read RBT posts about how an ultrasonic cleaner would get my chain
cleaner than I imagined possible, so I popped a filthy chain into it
and ran it for the maximum 8 minute cycle.

I was disappointed, since I'd been hoping to see dramatic results,
with lots of tiny bubbles and exciting clouds of grime swirling off
the chain. Apparently, the microscopic bubbles really are microscopic,
and the grime didn't swirl much.

I kept cycling the chain and pouring out filthy water and detergent
off and on all day. I lost track of how many 8 minute cycles were
involved, but it was more than a dozen.

The chain _looked_ clean, but every time I ran the cleaner again, the
water turned dirty.

I finally gave up, put the chain back on my bike, sprayed a little
WD40 on it, and ran it through a paper towel--my, what nasty black
marks!

Maybe, I thought, it was just picking up grime from my sprockets and
idler gears.

A few days later, I went through the whole business again, more than a
dozen 8 minute cleanings on a chain that wasn't all that dirty. This
time, I sprayed it with WD40 a few times and then dunked it in the
cleaner. Again, it looked awfully clean, but the water always ended up
dirty after another 8 minute cycle.

And when I sprayed the clean-looking chain with WD40 before putting it
on the sprockets and ran it through a clean paper towel, the same
black marks appeared.

I suspect that the ultrasonic cleaner (possibly underpowered?) doesn't
get at the only grime that really matters, namely the stuff inside the
pins and rollers.

I'm starting to wonder how well solvents do and whether it's actually
possible to clean the inside of a chain that's actually been oiled and
ridden a hundred miles.

If you'll recommend a brand of citrus cleaner, I'll try the wide-mouth
jar and shaking and then see what happens when I spray some WD40 on
the chain afterward and see what kind of paper towel results I get.

My 9 speed Campagnolo chain came with instructions explicitly stating
*not* to use solvents!

"bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1166564867.803014.42640@
79g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

My 9 speed Campagnolo chain came with instructions explicitly stating
*not* to use solvents!

Interesting, and quite different from the "Ultra Narrow" chain
documentation (http://tinyurl.com/yjkt8n).

There it states:

Before lubricating, thoroughly clean the drive system (chain, sprocket
set, chainrings and derailleur pulleys) with a brush or cloth saturated
with *an appropriate degreaser* or detergent.

(Emphasis added)

It doesn't talk about solvents specifically, but I would assume that most
degreasers are, or contain, solvents.

Of course, being Campy, they do warn you that using poor-quality or
incorrect lubricant may damage the chain... resulting in an accident,
personal injury or death.

I doubt that the Campagnolo lawyers can wake up in the morning without
risk of "an accident, personal injury or death."

Actually, in all seriousness, their ridiculous overuse of this warning
completely negates their ability to warn you about any areas that might
actually need special care.

Cheers (and be safe out there),
David

In article <[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Paul Cassel said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nope, invest in a snap link, a toolless way to take the chain off...put
into a plastic milk jug, mineral spirits, shake, take out, let
dry..While it's drying, take chainrings off, pulleys out, cogs off,
clean all. Grease pulley innards, grease chainring bolts and flats
where the rings touch the crank...make all tight, put chain back
on...lube, ride the next day.

Are snap links available for C10 chains? I suppose you need a tool to
break the chain and then install the link - right? I'm guessing a snap
link is what we call a 'master link' on a motorcycle.

-paul

yep, the '6.05' for shimano and new Campag 5.9 chains, the 6.2 for
older Campag 10s, both from Wipperman.

What seemed to work for me was hot water and automatic dishwasher
detergent, along with a toothbrush and lots of elbow grease.