Chain care and feeding

john said:

monkeyboy said:

On Feb 19, 2:52 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do I know the chain is dirty enough to needs cleaning?
Is soaking in acetone a good way to accomplish that? For how long?

Quoted message said:

Ok, here is my method.... keep a container of mineral spirits, pull
the chain, hang it from a piece of coat hanger, and soak it in the
mineral spirits while you floss the cogset and clean the pullys ect.
Pull the chain from the mineral spirits and wipe clean. I have a
naglene bottle full of motor oil, with avacuumfitting glued into the
top. Drop the chain into the motor oil, put the cap on and pull a
vacuumon the bottle (I use a handvacuumpump used for bleeding auto
brakes, about $20, also a small piece of coat hanger hooked to the
chain in the bottle makes it easy to remove). You will see the chain
fizz as the air comes out to the crevices, then release thevacuum,
and the oil is forced into the chain. Let it drip dry for a bit,
install, and wipe off the excess. Takes about 10-15min total and has
very little spray onto the wheels/bike when your done. Seems to do a
nice job of lubing the chain.

Hello MB

I find your technique interesting, not just for cleaning & lubing
chains but other things as well. Anything that has nooks & crannies
that is hard/ impossible to clean & lube such as rear detailers &
cassette BBs.

However I'm not clear on one thing. You pull thevacuumw/ the chain
soaking in the oil. So that means that U pull all or most of the oil &
air out, then release thevacuum. Whereupon the air & oil return to
the container & chain. Wouldn't the air pressurize the chain prior to
the oil due to the airs lower viscosity? Wouldn't a better procedure
be to insert the clean chain in the vac. chamber, pull thevacuum,
then allow small amounts of oil into the chamber while continuing to
pull avacuum?

Quoted message said:

Seems to do a nice job of lubing the chain.

How many road, or off road, miles in dry conditions do you get this
way? Wet miles?
How much more use do you reckon you get vs. less involved methods?
I'm going to have to try this myself.

I think it's hard to beat Bill S.'s & my method. Only I prefer
Boeshield T-9. Then drip much more, T-9 on the chain, than required,
while backpedaling. Forward pedal while shifting to all gears 2 or 3
times. "Floss" cogs & CRs, if grungy (which they rarely are).
Backpedal a few minutes, while wiping the chain w/ clean shop rag
continually changing to clean rag areas. I waste quire a bit of T-9.
Like BS, I don't ride in the rain. I've never tried not wiping the
clean like BS. I guess I should try it & try White Lightning

I get ~200 dry road miles. I used to lube the chain when it started to
chirp. However I have found that shifting starts to slightly deteriate
~40 mi prior to squeaking. So I lube now @ the first sign of hesitant
shifting, which is ~200.

Regards, John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi John,

The container is about 1/2 full of oil with the chain submerged, there
is an air gap to the lid. So I just pull a vacuum in the air gap,
drawing the air out of the crevices of the chain. I know it sounds
like a cumbersome method, but in prectice it is very quick and results
in much less oil spray on the wheels and frame. I lube the chain every
4-6wks in good weather, about 500-700 miles. As to how long my chains
last, it's tough to say, I check with a chain guage every few months,
but I replace them very infrequently. If I had to guess, I'd say
better than 2000k miles but hard to say I can't remember the last time
I changed one and I don't log it.

I used to lube them while they were still on the bike, but it just
makes a mess of the rear wheel, frame, and floor.

Regards,

Frank

monkeyboy said:

The container is about 1/2 full of oil with the chain submerged, there
is an air gap to the lid. So I just pull a vacuum in the air gap,
drawing the air out of the crevices of the chain. I know it sounds
like a cumbersome method, but in prectice it is very quick and results
in much less oil spray on the wheels and frame.

I was thinking about this technique during a recent ride, and it
strikes me that you could essentially do the same thing with high
pressure. That would compress the air in the rollers, allowing
lubricant to reach the same areas that pulling a vacuum would (though
it would do it while you were pumping, not after). Seems that
determining which method works best would come down to determining the
ratio between ambient air pressure and the vacuum/high pressure. That
is, if you can pull 7psi (0.5bar) vacuum with the pump, the end
results of "oil intrusion" would be about the same as pressurizing the
container to 14psi (1.0bar). Of course, I suppose you could pump up
the container to 150psi with a floor pump, but that sounds like a
fairly dangerous - or at least, potentially VERY messy - thing to do.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

monkeyboy said:

The container is about 1/2 full of oil with the chain submerged, there
is an air gap to the lid. So I just pull a vacuum in the air gap,
drawing the air out of the crevices of the chain. I know it sounds
like a cumbersome method, but in prectice it is very quick and results
in much less oil spray on the wheels and frame.

I was thinking about this technique during a recent ride, and it
strikes me that you could essentially do the same thing with high
pressure. That would compress the air in the rollers, allowing
lubricant to reach the same areas that pulling a vacuum would (though
it would do it while you were pumping, not after). Seems that
determining which method works best would come down to determining the
ratio between ambient air pressure and the vacuum/high pressure. That
is, if you can pull 7psi (0.5bar) vacuum with the pump, the end
results of "oil intrusion" would be about the same as pressurizing the
container to 14psi (1.0bar). Of course, I suppose you could pump up
the container to 150psi with a floor pump, but that sounds like a
fairly dangerous - or at least, potentially VERY messy - thing to do.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

I've actually gone out and purchased a Napa brake bleed kit, but
haven't gotten around to using it yet, because the bottle it comes
with is clouded, and I need to glue the enclosed brass hose fitting to
the cap of a clear Nalgene bottle so I can confirm the volume of air
bubbles exiting the chain.

It seems to me that if you draw enough vacuum, the bubbles trapped in
the chain, with the assistance of the bouyancy of the trapped air,
would bring about the complete evacuation of air from the submerged
chain. And total cleaning/oiling of all the internal parts of the
chain. If you pressurize, I think bubbles would tend to remain
trapped within the links, possibly preventing a complete oiling. I
wonder if any more bubbles would exit, or if you would oil the
internals any better than by just soaking the chain in oil for an
extended period.

The brake bleed kit can either draw vacuum, or pressurize, but I don't
know how one would go about determining which worked better. Also,
when you harg the chain, the oil would drain out of the links, but I
guess better in a drip bucket than while on your bike. And,
importantly, completely oil soaked chains make great dirt magnets no
matter how much you wipe them off with a mineral spirits soaked paper
towel. Hence the advice to just put a dab on each link, and just on
one side. Hanging the oil-soaked it for a good long time would help
get most of the oil out, but you're trading a better oiled chain for
one that get's dirty faster. I don't know which is better, or if the
extra work of hanging up oil-soaked chains is worth the effort. It
all sounds like a project that needs to get farmed out to Fogel Labs.

Bill Westphal

Bill Westphal said:

Mark Hickey said:

monkeyboy said:

The container is about 1/2 full of oil with the chain submerged, there
is an air gap to the lid. So I just pull a vacuum in the air gap,
drawing the air out of the crevices of the chain. I know it sounds
like a cumbersome method, but in prectice it is very quick and results
in much less oil spray on the wheels and frame.

I was thinking about this technique during a recent ride, and it
strikes me that you could essentially do the same thing with high
pressure. That would compress the air in the rollers, allowing
lubricant to reach the same areas that pulling a vacuum would (though
it would do it while you were pumping, not after). Seems that
determining which method works best would come down to determining the
ratio between ambient air pressure and the vacuum/high pressure. That
is, if you can pull 7psi (0.5bar) vacuum with the pump, the end
results of "oil intrusion" would be about the same as pressurizing the
container to 14psi (1.0bar). Of course, I suppose you could pump up
the container to 150psi with a floor pump, but that sounds like a
fairly dangerous - or at least, potentially VERY messy - thing to do.

[...]

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that if you draw enough vacuum, the bubbles trapped in
the chain, with the assistance of the bouyancy of the trapped air,
would bring about the complete evacuation of air from the submerged
chain. And total cleaning/oiling of all the internal parts of the
chain. If you pressurize, I think bubbles would tend to remain
trapped within the links, possibly preventing a complete oiling.

The bubbles would become very small though, under the effect of the
pressure.

Drawing a vacuum should make the bubbles bigger, which might help them
squeeze their way out of the interstices in which they're trapped I
suppose.

Any disruption to the bubbles either way might work just as well to
shake them loose.

On 2007-02-27, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

We have played a prank or two in the shop here involving an SMC
fitting, a soda bottle and house air. House air is regulated @
100PSI, and the bottles blow in about one second. The resulting sound
is a lot like a gunshot, and I'm sure it would spray oil to the
farthest wall if there were oil in it. I'm not sure where the
breaking point for the soda bottles is, but it's well below 100psi.

If you can make the bung pop out before the bottle bursts you can make a
rocket. Make a few fins to put on the soda bottle, half-fill it with
water, prop it up neck-down, and keep pumping. When you reach enough
pressure for the bung to come out it will launch in the air spraying
a plume of water behind it.

Quoted message said:

There's no notable difference between a 20oz and a two-liter in this
experiment/prank.

Interesting, you'd expect the smaller bottle to be able to hold more
pressure before it burst (because casing tension is proportional to
pressure and to diameter-- that's why narrow bike tyres are usually
rated for higher pressures than fat ones).

Maybe the smaller bottles have thinner walls.

Ben C said:

If you can make the bung pop out before the bottle bursts you can make a
rocket. Make a few fins to put on the soda bottle, half-fill it with
water, prop it up neck-down, and keep pumping. When you reach enough
pressure for the bung to come out it will launch in the air spraying
a plume of water behind it.

That sounds like fun. I'll keep that tucked into the back of my mind
for the next slow spell.

Quoted message said:

Interesting, you'd expect the smaller bottle to be able to hold more
pressure before it burst (because casing tension is proportional to
pressure and to diameter-- that's why narrow bike tyres are usually
rated for higher pressures than fat ones).

Maybe the smaller bottles have thinner walls.

Part of the reason I mentioned it is because I found it surprising. I
believe the brand may have been the deciding factor, however. I just
checked three bottles, a 1 liter Polar bottle, a 2 liter Polar bottle,
and a two liter Sierra Mist bottle. The polar bottles both measure .
46mm, even though they are different sizes. The Sierra mist bottle
measures .27mm. I can't say for sure if we were using products of the
same brand when noting the lack of difference in bottle size. I'm
curious how a standard coke bottle would measure in.