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Cerys Edwards Petiton

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UK and Europe
Published
5 May 2008
Last activity
13 May 2008
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burtthebike
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  1. The mother of this little girl was on R4 this morning, and it was
    heartbreaking to hear that Cerys will need constant attention for the rest
    of her life. She was in a car struck by a driver doing 70mph in a 30mph
    zone in his daddy's Range Rover, and he'd had a licence for less than six
    months. The driver was sentenced to two years, and will be out in one. He
    was caught doing 80mph in a 50mph zone two months after he'd struck the
    Edwards' car.

    This petiton is about restricting people who've just past their tests to
    access high powered vehicles. OK, it's not a complete answer, but it's
    going to help all vulnerable road users.

    http://www.cerysedwards.co.uk/

    "You can help Cerys

    Cerys was a normal happy 1 year old before suffering the most horrific head
    injuries caused by a young Dangerous Driver.

    Cerys can no longer breath without the aid of a ventilator and is paralysed.

    A fund is being set up for Cerys which will be administered by the Court of
    Protection. Donations to help Cerys will be gratefully received, acknowleged
    and used for her sole benefit no matter how small. You can help, they will
    make a difference.

    Please send cheques payable to solicitors:

    Russell Jones & Walker (Cerys Edwards), The McLaren Building, 35 Dale End,
    Birmingham, B4 7LN

    Other ways you can help.
    "Help Cerys. Help change the law"

    No family should have to suffer the same tragic consequences brought about
    by young foolish, reckless and dangerous drivers. Current penalties are
    insufficient and do little to stop this kind of accident happening again.

    The intention is to start a campaign to change the sentencing laws for
    drivers found guilty of dangerous driving. At present the law states the
    maximum sentence is 2 years - we say it should be 10 years to take account
    of cases of serious injury sustained by victims of such driving, to be
    closer to the 14 years for causing death by dangerous driving.

    Also that the government introduces legislation prohibiting drivers with
    less than 2 year's record of insuring a motor vehicle from insuring or
    driving a vehicle with a power output in excess of 100 BHP. Young and
    inexperienced drivers should not be permitted to drive powerful cars and
    there is work the government and insurance companies could do to ensure that
    there is a limit.

    Please sign our Petition to urge the Government to CHANGE THE LAW.
    Help prevent another tragedy sign our petition.

    Thank you for your support you can read more about Cerys' story and the
    Court Case that followed by clicking here"

  2. burtthebike said:


    Shroud waving spam!

  3. Marc said:

    Shroud waving spam!

    Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    downsides.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  4. Peter Clinch said:
    Marc said:

    Shroud waving spam!

    Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    downsides.

    More uninsured drivers, perhaps?

    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups
    ("😉_("😉 I am blocking most articles posted from there.

  5. Mark said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Marc said:

    Shroud waving spam!


    Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    downsides.

    More uninsured drivers, perhaps?

    Or there again, perhaps not... I wouldn't expect something like this to
    be made law without looking at a bit harder, just because of a petition.
    Unlike certain helmet cases that spring to mind, an irrelevant
    precaution is not being made out to be a magic bullet, its potency
    enhanced by the shroud.

    Pete
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  6. Peter Clinch said:
    Mark said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    Marc wrote:

    > Shroud waving spam!
    Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    downsides.

    More uninsured drivers, perhaps?

    Or there again, perhaps not... I wouldn't expect something like this to
    be made law without looking at a bit harder, just because of a petition.

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    Quoted message said:

    Unlike certain helmet cases that spring to mind, an irrelevant
    precaution is not being made out to be a magic bullet, its potency
    enhanced by the shroud.

    It seems like a good idea on the face of it. I doubt it would make
    much difference in practise though. It's quite possible to drive
    dangerously in a low performance car. I believe that the driver is
    where the problem lies, not the car. I would be happy to be proved
    wrong, however ;-)

    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
    ("😉_("😉 their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
    posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
    everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
    See http://improve-usenet.org

  7. Mark said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Mark said:

    On Mon, 05 May 2008 11:01:43 +0100, Peter Clinch
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > Marc wrote:
    >
    >> Shroud waving spam!
    > Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    > one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    > speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    > pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    > downsides.

    More uninsured drivers, perhaps?

    Or there again, perhaps not... I wouldn't expect something like this to
    be made law without looking at a bit harder, just because of a petition.

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    Quoted message said:

    Unlike certain helmet cases that spring to mind, an irrelevant
    precaution is not being made out to be a magic bullet, its potency
    enhanced by the shroud.

    It seems like a good idea on the face of it. I doubt it would make
    much difference in practise though. It's quite possible to drive
    dangerously in a low performance car. I believe that the driver is
    where the problem lies, not the car. I would be happy to be proved
    wrong, however ;-)

    High performance cars can certainly accellerate to 50mph in shorter
    distances to lower performing cars, making driving as 50 in a
    residential zone possible where it may not be for a 2CV.

    It would be perfectly possible to limit the engine capacity for new
    drivers. I have a feeling they do something like that for motorbikes.
    50cc, 125cc are limits of some kind as far as I recall - but I am
    streching my mind back to the early 80s so things may have changed.

    Isn't 25 an age limit for holding a PSV or HGV licence? Or is it 21?

  8. burtthebike said:

    The mother of this little girl was on R4 this morning, and it was
    heartbreaking to hear that Cerys will need constant attention for the
    rest of her life. She was in a car struck by a driver doing 70mph in a
    30mph zone in his daddy's Range Rover, and he'd had a licence for less
    than six months. The driver was sentenced to two years, and will be out
    in one. He was caught doing 80mph in a 50mph zone two months after he'd
    struck the Edwards' car.

    In the news today,

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7385497.stm

    The family have received 800,000ukp in compensation, mainly for costs of
    caring for Cerys.

  9. Tom Crispin said:
    Mark said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    Mark wrote:
    > On Mon, 05 May 2008 11:01:43 +0100, Peter Clinch
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> Marc wrote:
    >>
    >>> Shroud waving spam!
    >> Shroud waving is not /necessarily/ a bad thing. I don't think this
    >> one will help very much as there's no problem doing highly illegal
    >> speeds in a 30 zone in any old crate, but at least it's not
    >> pretending to be The Answer and there are few (if any) obvious
    >> downsides.
    >
    > More uninsured drivers, perhaps?

    Or there again, perhaps not... I wouldn't expect something like this to
    be made law without looking at a bit harder, just because of a petition.

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    Quoted message said:

    Unlike certain helmet cases that spring to mind, an irrelevant
    precaution is not being made out to be a magic bullet, its potency
    enhanced by the shroud.

    It seems like a good idea on the face of it. I doubt it would make
    much difference in practise though. It's quite possible to drive
    dangerously in a low performance car. I believe that the driver is
    where the problem lies, not the car. I would be happy to be proved
    wrong, however ;-)

    High performance cars can certainly accellerate to 50mph in shorter
    distances to lower performing cars, making driving as 50 in a
    residential zone possible where it may not be for a 2CV.


    no idea what the slowest new car is but it's probably a lot quicker than
    a 2cv, quite possible to reach 50+ even in urban sprall. i have a 10
    year old 1.3 wee car, it's quite able to run at high motorway speeds and
    get up to them with out fuss.

    it is the perinal problem of arrogonce of yough, be that driving at 70
    in a 30 zone or taking 5 friends in small car and driving on a twisty
    mountain road, both are dumb things (at the most chartable) to do.

    Quoted message said:

    It would be perfectly possible to limit the engine capacity for new
    drivers. I have a feeling they do something like that for motorbikes.
    50cc, 125cc are limits of some kind as far as I recall - but I am
    streching my mind back to the early 80s so things may have changed.


    mopeds are 50cc 51cc is a motorbike. the differace is that a, learner on
    a bike is out in traffic, with out some one by their side like a car.

    Quoted message said:

    Isn't 25 an age limit for holding a PSV or HGV licence? Or is it 21?

    21 for light goods ie big vans 25 for HGV. of the top of my head, should
    say on the back of the licence any way.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  10. On Wed, 7 May 2008 07:11:13 +0100, [email hidden] (Roger

    Merriman) said:

    no idea what the slowest new car is but it's probably a lot quicker than
    a 2cv, quite possible to reach 50+ even in urban sprall. i have a 10
    year old 1.3 wee car, it's quite able to run at high motorway speeds and
    get up to them with out fuss.

    Peugeot 207 basic 0 - 62 in 15.2 secs
    Peugeot 207 BR* 0 - 62 in 7.1 secs

    *BR = Boy Racer style.

    That can make a hell of a difference on a residential road.

  11. Tom Crispin said:

    Peugeot 207 basic 0 - 62 in 15.2 secs
    Peugeot 207 BR* 0 - 62 in 7.1 secs

    *BR = Boy Racer style.

    What, so putting a noisy exhaust and a tailplane that wouldn't look out
    of place on an F-16 on to a Pugwat 207 really /does/ increase the
    performance?

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  12. Tom Crispin said:

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 07:11:13 +0100, [email hidden] (Roger

    Merriman) said:

    no idea what the slowest new car is but it's probably a lot quicker than
    a 2cv, quite possible to reach 50+ even in urban sprall. i have a 10
    year old 1.3 wee car, it's quite able to run at high motorway speeds and
    get up to them with out fuss.

    Peugeot 207 basic 0 - 62 in 15.2 secs
    Peugeot 207 BR* 0 - 62 in 7.1 secs

    *BR = Boy Racer style.

    That can make a hell of a difference on a residential road.

    very few can afford the car, the insurance, fuel etc. most boyed up cars
    are lesser and by the time it's got the weight of the gear and the
    dulling of the engine with the loud exhaust. it will be some what slower
    again.

    a few years back i had a old volvo 240, rumbling up the climb of heads
    of the valleys road, i'd often pass souped up cars going flat out...
    most are sheep in wolf's clothing that doesn't mean they can't go fast
    as all cars can but very few are high performace cars.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  13. Tom Crispin said:

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 07:11:13 +0100, [email hidden] (Roger

    Merriman) said:

    no idea what the slowest new car is but it's probably a lot quicker than
    a 2cv, quite possible to reach 50+ even in urban sprall. i have a 10
    year old 1.3 wee car, it's quite able to run at high motorway speeds and
    get up to them with out fuss.

    Peugeot 207 basic 0 - 62 in 15.2 secs
    Peugeot 207 BR* 0 - 62 in 7.1 secs

    *BR = Boy Racer style.

    That can make a hell of a difference on a residential road.

    But the driver of the "BR" version does not have to used the maximum
    acceleration all the time. They have choice. Therefore we should not
    be blaming the car but the driver. I'm not against the proposed
    restriction, I just think it won't work in practise and is avoiding
    the real problem - the driver.

    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
    ("😉_("😉 their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
    posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
    everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
    See http://improve-usenet.org

  14. Mark said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 07:11:13 +0100, [email hidden] (Roger

    Merriman) said:

    no idea what the slowest new car is but it's probably a lot quicker than
    a 2cv, quite possible to reach 50+ even in urban sprall. i have a 10
    year old 1.3 wee car, it's quite able to run at high motorway speeds and
    get up to them with out fuss.

    Peugeot 207 basic 0 - 62 in 15.2 secs
    Peugeot 207 BR* 0 - 62 in 7.1 secs

    *BR = Boy Racer style.

    That can make a hell of a difference on a residential road.

    But the driver of the "BR" version does not have to used the maximum
    acceleration all the time. They have choice. Therefore we should not
    be blaming the car but the driver. I'm not against the proposed
    restriction, I just think it won't work in practise and is avoiding
    the real problem - the driver.

    well it would with all likely hood be ingear acceleration than red
    lining though the gears, at least the few times i see that sort of
    behavour that is what it sounds like.

    but yes it's the driver not the car, after all some streets 30 is not
    safe.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  15. Mark said the following on 06/05/2008 14:45:

    Quoted message said:

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    I was a little surprised that they didn't use the government petition
    site for this. Not that it would make any more difference (have *any*
    of these petitions had an effect).

    I do agree with the sentiments of the petition though - after all, to
    ride high-powered motorbikes there are stage tests to go through, so why
    not for cars? There will always be people who break any laws, but the
    majority of people are actually law-abiding.

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  16. Peter Clinch said the following on 07/05/2008 09:00:

    Quoted message said:

    What, so putting a noisy exhaust and a tailplane that wouldn't look out
    of place on an F-16 on to a Pugwat 207 really /does/ increase the
    performance?

    Only if performance is measured in dB. Most of these mods as fitted by
    the average BR actually reduce performance. Besides, it's not a
    tailplane, it's a handlebar for pushing the car off the road when it
    breaks down ;-)

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  17. Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

    Mark said the following on 06/05/2008 14:45:

    Quoted message said:

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    I was a little surprised that they didn't use the government petition
    site for this. Not that it would make any more difference (have *any*
    of these petitions had an effect).


    Ah, but we're in a new "listening" phase of government ...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7386889.stm

    .... for some "la la la I can't hear you" definitions of listening.

    Tim.

  18. Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

    Mark said the following on 06/05/2008 14:45:

    Quoted message said:

    Agreed. I don't think these petitions make any difference - that
    would be much too democratic for the UK ;-) However laws do get
    passed with very little thought attached IMHO.

    I was a little surprised that they didn't use the government petition
    site for this. Not that it would make any more difference (have *any*
    of these petitions had an effect).

    I do agree with the sentiments of the petition though - after all, to
    ride high-powered motorbikes there are stage tests to go through, so why
    not for cars? There will always be people who break any laws, but the
    majority of people are actually law-abiding.

    as far as i can see it's still learner on 125cc and once passed, you
    have to wait two years, and then you can ride anything.

    performace bikes and cars are very differnte beasts though, for a lot
    less money you can get a machine with simply astonishing performance.
    unless your wallet is very deep, cars just aren't like that. all but the
    most extreme are less peaky and twichy.

    a lot of the problem with fast bikes is with mid life ciris "responsble'
    chapping buying a hyper bike and trying to use the mountain roads in the
    abergavenny area as race tracks, the police are allways having various
    training and such to try to get them from killing them selfs.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  19. Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

    Peter Clinch said the following on 07/05/2008 09:00:

    Quoted message said:

    What, so putting a noisy exhaust and a tailplane that wouldn't look out
    of place on an F-16 on to a Pugwat 207 really /does/ increase the
    performance?

    Only if performance is measured in dB. Most of these mods as fitted by
    the average BR actually reduce performance. Besides, it's not a
    tailplane, it's a handlebar for pushing the car off the road when it
    breaks down ;-)

    i love the ones with only a rear, so at speed it's pulling the front
    up...

    ferrari did in the 80's? have a car that did that at 80mph...

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  20. Roger Merriman said the following on 07/05/2008 10:42:

    Quoted message said:

    as far as i can see it's still learner on 125cc and once passed, you
    have to wait two years, and then you can ride anything.

    Yes, but in a car you can take lessons and a driving test in a Ferrari,
    then when you pass you can go and drive it. No restriction whatsoever.

    Actually, for bikes you don't have to wait for two years before riding
    anything bigger. So long as you're over 21 you can do an accelerated
    course to get you there quicker, but you still have to do the CBT bit -
    in other words there are still stages to go through.

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

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