Centennial Park Sydney

HappyHoads said:

Has anyone else run into problems with the Rangers @ Centennial Park,
(Sydney),?
I thought Nazi's were a thing of the past! ....
The 30 km's an hour limit seems a bit draconian to me .. but have a bloke
set up with a speed gun .. thats just crazy!

If the speed limit is 30km/h, then the speed limit is 30km/h, right?

Don't like it? campaign to have it changed.

On the 'Goodwill Bridge' in Brisbane, badwill rules! I did BikeWeek
surveys this morning and had peds and cyclists lining up demanding
separate paths and whining about the other species/tribe. Neither seems
to relate it to the cyclist/car experience, which is far more
hazardous.

The bridge speed limit is 10 kmh for bikes. The bridge has a big hump,
so 10 is just attainable going up, but you need full brakes to hold 20
going down.

Donga

Donga said:

On the 'Goodwill Bridge' in Brisbane, badwill rules! I did BikeWeek
surveys this morning and had peds and cyclists lining up demanding
separate paths and whining about the other species/tribe. Neither seems
to relate it to the cyclist/car experience, which is far more
hazardous.

The bridge speed limit is 10 kmh for bikes. The bridge has a big hump,
so 10 is just attainable going up, but you need full brakes to hold 20
going down.

Donga

I broke the speed limit on that bridge yesterday, and so did about 1000
other women in the fun run.

Tam

HappyHoads enquired -

Quoted message said:

Has anyone else run into problems with the Rangers @ Centennial Park,
(Sydney),?
I thought Nazi's were a thing of the past! ....
The 30 km's an hour limit seems a bit draconian to me .. but have a bloke
set up with a speed gun .. thats just crazy!

There is a long and rich history to this - if you are interested the
cyclists view is at -

http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Cycle%20Centennial/index.htm

The unfinished spat re-emerges every couple of years.

The silliest proposal I have seen put forward by the anti cycling lobby was
a consultants report a couple of years ago that suggested changing the
present one way direction round the park for both cars and cyles to have
them counter rotating (that is, so that cyclists and cars could then have
head on collisions). I think I am correct in asserting that someone got paid
for that undoubtedly brilliant but slightly counter-intuitive proposal.

The country really is in the best of hands.

best, Andrew

Andrew Price said:

HappyHoads enquired -

Quoted message said:

Has anyone else run into problems with the Rangers @ Centennial Park,
(Sydney),?
I thought Nazi's were a thing of the past! ....
The 30 km's an hour limit seems a bit draconian to me .. but have a bloke
set up with a speed gun .. thats just crazy!

There is a long and rich history to this - if you are interested the
cyclists view is at -

http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Cycle%20Centennial/index.htm

The unfinished spat re-emerges every couple of years.

The silliest proposal I have seen put forward by the anti cycling lobby was
a consultants report a couple of years ago that suggested changing the
present one way direction round the park for both cars and cyles to have
them counter rotating (that is, so that cyclists and cars could then have
head on collisions). I think I am correct in asserting that someone got paid
for that undoubtedly brilliant but slightly counter-intuitive proposal.

Apparently, they are now building speed-bumps in "strategic locations"
to deter cyclists from cycling fast. Genius.

HappyHoads said:

Has anyone else run into problems with the Rangers @ Centennial Park,
(Sydney),?
I thought Nazi's were a thing of the past! ....
The 30 km's an hour limit seems a bit draconian to me .. but have a bloke
set up with a speed gun .. thats just crazy!

They're generally targetting cyclists in pelotons larger than 15
riders. I've ridden past the Ranger many times going 40km/h plus (not
difficult on a summer afternoon in Sydney) and I was ignored.

Tip: If you ever get pulled over, politely ask the Ranger if you can
see the radar gun. They are not permitted to give you a ticket if they
ascertain your speed, by inferring the difference from their own speed
(ie if they are driving).

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kimon said:

Apparently, they are now building speed-bumps in "strategic locations"
to deter cyclists from cycling fast. Genius.

I could be wrong but I think the speed humps are only being installed on
the roadways coming into the park. That is what I understood by the
notice in the local rag.
The Rangers have a very difficult job and are, almost 100% of the time,
very generous to cyclists who train there early mornings. They could be
'Nazis' if they wanted to but they are not. They know that Centennial
Park is a safe haven for cyclists who do not feel like dicing with death
on the open roads outside the Park.
After 08:00 am it is just dumb to train in Centennial Park because of
the walkers, joggers, horses, dogs, children, roller-bladers and cars. I
cannot say what it is like in the evenings because I do not go there.
All cyclists know that 30kph is too slow but it is a trade-off with
other activities in a very busy park. It will never be raised - but
could be lowered.
The traffic study of a couple of years ago only showed how close we came
to having a disastrous plan adopted. The local cycling clubs put in a
lot of work to have the plan shelved. It was done by being level-headed
and addressing the real issues. Calling Rangers 'Nazis' is definitely
not the way to have your opinion heard. Plus, the Rangers are told to
enforce the speed limit by management every time somebody gets [censored] with cyclists.
The problem is that the dog walkers hate cyclists, the horse riders hate
cyclists and the car drivers hate cyclists. Even the cyclists don't like
other cyclists sometimes - this happens when the once-a-year cyclist
gets blown off the road by a peleton of 15 going 40kph. The peleton does
the right thing by announcing their arrival with a loud 'Keep Left' and
this is interpreted as overly aggressive. It all depends on where you
observe the incident from.
My advice if you want to ride in Centennial Park is:
* get there early
* plan to finish by 08:00
* be nice to everybody you see
* don't scare casual cyclists - especially with kids
* get to know the Rangers
* provide constructive unemotional feedback to the Park management
(start by reading their website <http://www.cp.nsw.gov.au/about_us>

cheers,
Darryl
(not employed by the Park - just like being there)

darryl said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kimon said:

Apparently, they are now building speed-bumps in "strategic locations"
to deter cyclists from cycling fast. Genius.

I could be wrong but I think the speed humps are only being installed on
the roadways coming into the park. That is what I understood by the
notice in the local rag.

I don't think putting a speed hump on a downhill is a particularly
smart or safe idea from the POV of a cyclist, IMO, anyway.

<good comments snipped>

Quoted message said:

After 08:00 am it is just dumb to train in Centennial Park because of
the walkers, joggers, horses, dogs, children, roller-bladers and cars. I
cannot say what it is like in the evenings because I do not go there.
All cyclists know that 30kph is too slow but it is a trade-off with
other activities in a very busy park. It will never be raised - but
could be lowered.

On a weekday the park is practically empty until about 3pm. The
weekends are a different matter.

< more good comments snipped>

Quoted message said:

The peleton does
the right thing by announcing their arrival with a loud 'Keep Left' and
this is interpreted as overly aggressive. It all depends on where you
observe the incident from.

Sharing a lane with roller-bladers isn't the best idea, but there's not
much that can be done.

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Darryl
(not employed by the Park - just like being there)

Yes, CP is my "happy place", as well.

I haven't had any problems yet with the rangers (I'll be back in there tomorrow) but the way the moron's from Sydney Cycling Club behave it's no wonder. We have had numerous run-ins with them as they don't seem to like anybody else using the park except them.
When overtaking me I have been forced off the road by dipsticks cutting in front. We have been abused for overtaking them when we have been on the tandem. I have been screamed at for being on the road when the pack blows through a give way sign as they come down the hill.
This is the same group that went past me on the highway a few weeks ago when I was on the fixie heading south and they didn't stop when the light turned red, they just kept on going.
It's a great training venue but people using it need to be conciderate to others.

Cheers

Geoff

On 7 Mar 2006 03:00:47 -0800, Kimon <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I don't think putting a speed hump on a downhill is a particularly
smart or safe idea from the POV of a cyclist, IMO, anyway.

I've had speed humps on the bottem of downhills, infact I discovered
that the shape of this speed hump turned it into a quite effective
jump. It had 100% the oppisit effect then what was intended.

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.

If you are pulled over in a group the speed reading is also likely to
be inaccurate and unsupportable.

30kph seems stupid though, you're allowed to do 40kph through a school
zone or a shopping strip in a car, but not in a park with much less
cross traffic.

My experience of central park is that it is something of a haven for
morning riding but some of the bunches can be downright rude, "we are
here with our coach and paying $8 to ride round the park with him so
f'off".

In article <[email hidden]>,

geoffs said:

I haven't had any problems yet with the rangers (I'll be back in there
tomorrow) but the way the moron's from Sydney Cycling Club behave it's
no wonder. We have had numerous run-ins with them as they don't seem to
like anybody else using the park except them.
When overtaking me I have been forced off the road by dipsticks cutting
in front. We have been abused for overtaking them when we have been on
the tandem. I have been screamed at for being on the road when the pack
blows through a give way sign as they come down the hill.
This is the same group that went past me on the highway a few weeks ago
when I was on the fixie heading south and they didn't stop when the
light turned red, they just kept on going.
It's a great training venue but people using it need to be conciderate
to others.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

Isn't it interesting that my experiences are so different from yours
and, by saying that, I am in no way insinuating that your experiences
happened any differently than you describe.

At the outset let me say I am not, nor have ever been, a member of
Sydney Cycling Club but I have ridden in Centennial Park (almost) every
Saturday morning for the past decade.

I see the Sydney Cycling Club every Saturday morning. They usually head
down to Waterfall or Botany. They rarely ride in CP for their Saturday
morning ride and I have never seen them in a pack except at 06:30am when
they do a half lap on their way out of the park.

They do sometimes conduct a time trial and I will concede that this
could be an inappropriate activity (another argument for another day)
but it is usually completed before 08:00am.

There is definitely a problem where the traffic coming down the hill
merges with the traffic on Grand Drive. I do not have a solution for
this as the 'hills' are an important part of cycling in CP. This problem
is not restricted to Sydney Cycling Club but anyone coming down the hill
must be aware of frightening the riders on Grand Drive who cannot see
the hill riders approaching.

I would be disappointed if they ride through red lights. They wear a
club uniform and therefore represent cycling as a sport. What they do
has implications for all - and that applies inside the park as well as
outside.

regards,
Darryl

darryl wrote -

Quoted message said:

At the outset let me say I am not, nor have ever been, a member of
Sydney Cycling Club but I have ridden in Centennial Park (almost) every
Saturday morning for the past decade.

At the outset let me declare a membership of Sydney Cycling for that same
decade. I have no official postion, just a guy down the back of the bunch.

Quoted message said:

I see the Sydney Cycling Club every Saturday morning. They usually head
down to Waterfall or Botany. They rarely ride in CP for their Saturday
morning ride and I have never seen them in a pack except at 06:30am when
they do a half lap on their way out of the park.

During that decade there have never been regular scheduled club rides in the
park. Its a venue for meeting up for rides and coffee afterwards.
Individuals and sometimes small informal groups do use the park for
particular training or socialising, as does the rest of the road cycling
community in Sydney that live close enought to the park to use it (and that
extends to clubs down Sutherland way).

At various times on Tuesdays and Thursday mornings you would also see bunchs
from Easts, Steam, the Brats, Randwick Botany and a few other clubs or
groups I have forgtten using the park, sometimes in, mostly out.

Quoted message said:

They do sometimes conduct a time trial and I will concede that this
could be an inappropriate activity (another argument for another day)
but it is usually completed before 08:00am.

The time trials were moved to Heffron last year. Club road races in the park
were abandoned long before I joined.

Quoted message said:

I would be disappointed if they ride through red lights. They wear a
club uniform and therefore represent cycling as a sport. What they do
has implications for all - and that applies inside the park as well as
outside.

So would I but I suspect respect for the road rules is not an issue for any
particular club or group, its universal.

For what its worth (and at various times I have ended up in bunchs coming
back from somewhere with LAPD, the Vets and all of the clubs I mention above
so I have spent riding time with other clubs and rides) the SCC bunches have
one of the best ethos' of really trying to ride professionally and well -
calling and changing lanes smoothly, keeping the bunch tight and together,
passing safely and calling hazards, walkers and slower cyclists and
incalculating those rules in new members. They publish a handbook of cycling
ettiquette which is as good a guide as I have seen - and if you ride often
in Sydney you need to learn those rules soonest - much more so than in say
Melb or Adelaide which are inherentely more cycling friendly.

I freely admit mistakes do get made and there will always be incidents of
less than perfect behaviour - but clubs generally, not just SCC do try and
do it better and more thoughtfully than any other gaggle of cyclists just
riding together - take the Wollongong or Cycle Sydney rides as an example of
disorganised chaos in comparison.

I suspect regular users of the park (whether they be in clubs or not) do
have a fair degree of mutual respect for each other; there are many tribes
out there - we try and be on good terms with all of them.

Quoted message said:

There is definitely a problem where the traffic coming down the hill
merges with the traffic on Grand Drive. I do not have a solution for
this as the 'hills' are an important part of cycling in CP. This problem
is not restricted to Sydney Cycling Club but anyone coming down the hill
must be aware of frightening the riders on Grand Drive who cannot see
the hill riders approaching.

Anyone that has used the park a lot invariably loves it and has strong views
about its preservation and continued use for all users. Unfortunately there
are some interest groups that sometimes put forward really silly solutions
to non problems - such as the counter rotating cars and cycles proposals I
mentioned in an earlier post. The really dumb but expensive roadsurfacing
experiment recently installed just after the Robinson Drive intersection is
another example.

My fondness is for the park as it was - and I am not sure it was seriously
broke and really needed fixing by major changes anywhere really. The
intersection you mention is controlled by a stop sign, which if observed,
really does obviate the problem - its just that the sign gets ignored. The
car free days they have tried were tried with the best of intentions but
they make life horrible for the residents in the nearby streets who get
parked out on those days.

.... and Darryl, was that you doing the 24hr solo charity ride in the park a
few years back? - if so know that you carried the goodwill of just about
every person in the park on that day/night! If they ever sought to stop you
doing things like that in the park the world would be a poorer place.

best, Andrew

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote:

(good comments snipped)

Quoted message said:

... and Darryl, was that you doing the 24hr solo charity ride in the park a
few years back? - if so know that you carried the goodwill of just about
every person in the park on that day/night! If they ever sought to stop you
doing things like that in the park the world would be a poorer place.

best, Andrew

Andrew,
Alas, not me but Darryl Allen. I wish I was that good. I am a plodder
but I do love the Park for cycling, running, walking and contemplating.
I also like Robert's coffee.
I probably know your face but cannot put face and name together.
To continue the discussion about the 'good' Darryl's ride, I have often
thought that an organised 24hr team/solo ride in Centennial Park would
be fantastic. I did a 24hr team run out at Homebush a few years ago and
despite the fact that it bucketed down rain it was a great time with
bands and dancing, etc.
Will not be there tomorrow - my annual appointment running Six Foot
Track.

cheers,
Darryl