Cassette Wear Experience

Perhaps there is a better wear measurement technique.

• Maybe the true amount of stretch is not demonstrated under a low load condition? Could the chain be more stretched than it appears?
  
• Does roller wear come into play as this is not checked using a ruler?
  
• Do dedicated chain wear measurement tools work better?
  

Are there drivetrain components that are proven to wear better than others, enough so to justify their increased price?

Double check that your rear mech is set perfectly - check the adjustment after replacing the chain. Chains do become a little more flexible side-to-side as they wear and because of this derailleur adjustment doesn't need to be 100% - 95% might do.

I've never used SRAM equipment so I can't comment on it, but I've been using the same mongrel setup of a Shimano 6600/6700 cassette (bottom half of a 12-27 and the dinner plates off a 11-28) for the last few years and replaced my Dura Ace chain twice a year. Chainrings and cassette still look in good shape.

My trusty wide range cassette (11-32) that I use for 120+ mile rides in the mountains has also seen about 2,000 miles and is looking pretty darned good.

I'd double check the deuraileur adjustment first and if that's all good, I'd chuck the old chain back on and save the new one until the current cassette is toast. Noone will know but you. Just keep it clean and lubricate when necessary.

Back in the day, I used to ride my chainrings and 7 speed freewheels until you started to see 'hooks' forming in the teeth - which was about 20,000 miles.

Yes its adjusted great. Eyeballing the cassette looks good as well, but when I get out of the saddle to hammer up a grade it slips.

This bike will be used for roller training soon enough, shouldn't be any harm in using the chain and cassette for that.

My main observation, based on my internet research, is that this is unusual; but it it really? Are the drivetrain maintenance best practices flawed?

Maybe a cassette is married to a chain - till death do they part.

maydog said:

Yes its adjusted great. Eyeballing the cassette looks good as well, but when I get out of the saddle to hammer up a grade it slips. This bike will be used for roller training soon enough, shouldn't be any harm in using the chain and cassette for that. My main observation, based on my internet research, is that this is unusual; but it it really? Are the drivetrain maintenance best practices flawed? Maybe a cassette is married to a chain - till death do they part.

Something's not right in your mix. Post some pics.

Maydog,

Your wear experience mirrors mine. I burn thru chains (on multiple bikes) in 1500 miles. The last 11-speed Campy chain I let got to 1800 miles had 3/16+" stretch. The drive train is kept clean and flooded with oil and I still fry chains and cassettes.

If I get 5K miles out of the most used gears on my cassettes, I feel fortunate. Three chains worth of use and the cassette 16, 17, 19 and maybe the 21 are junk. A new chain will slip/skip over the trash gears and mate just fine with, say, the much less worn 25 or 15, 14, etc.

I don't cross-chain, but I do ride lots of hills. Maybe that helps send them to an early grave? Our local roads are dirty and gritty, but I cleans my chains weekly with a Park chain cleaner and keep them wet with 85-140 weight gear oil.

I have noticed that if a new chain only skips on one gear and it only skips under a very heavy torque load, it 'might' seat in and stop skipping in about 50 miles of bedding in/initial stretching.

Several years ago I read that the pro teams pitch chains in the trash in the 1500-2000 kilometer range. I'm guessing they also toss lots of cassettes also. Since going to 10-speed Campy back in 2007 I've become convinced that the narrow 10 and 11 speed stuff has a short service life paired with my riding conditions. I've just accepted that fact and keep my spare parts box stocked with a couple of chains and cassette stacks.

I have NOT experienced any abnormal chainring wear. My last 53T 10-speed went 5 years before replacement.

Here are a couple of pics of the cassette and chain on the bike. I don't know what you expect to see, if the cassette was visibly worn I would replace it without a second thought. Sprockets 17, 16, 15 and 14 all skip to some degree.

[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG]

In this pic, I put a short length of new chain on the sprockets to the right of the old, worn chain.

[IMG]cyclingforums.com700Open ↗[/IMG]

I can't imagine gear oil being thin enough to get into the chain and lubricate the inner parts. The other benefit of a thin oil is that it sloughs off during a ride (with the inner clearances of the chain acting as reservoirs), taking dirt and grime with it before that stuff can work its way between contact surfaces and grind away at them.

I've been oiling my chain every 100 miles since new, and it has ~1500 miles on it with no signs of skipping or wear. Of course, it's also a Shimano...

Maybe try spending a bit more on oil, and (hopefully) less on chains and cassettes.

maydog, in the last photo I see signs of rust, both on the cassette spacers and out on the NDS of the hub. And everything looks dry...almost hurts me to look. So, I'm not surprised your chain/cassette is wearing fast. The rust on the cassette and hub is caused by rain water, condensation in storage, or use of some corrosive (alkaline or low-ph) cleaner. Cleaning with harsh alkali grease removers does more damage than good. I rarely even "clean" my chain or cassette, and then only with a citrus-based cleaner made for bike chains in the little roller brush device.

Fix that issue, get lots of quality lube into the chain and let it come out as you ride. Wipe down with a rag if the excess oil on the surface bothers you. Remember, a healthy, well-lubed chain will be dark with oil, not look brand-new....that's my mantra. Try not using any cleaners other than a rag, keeping the chain "wet" with oil and see how it works for you. You should notice instantly you've got a quieter, faster ride with better shifting. .

My chain stays fairly new-looking, even when it's wet with oil. If you oil it often enough, it will not turn black (there will be some dark oil). Blackness is either dirt or metal particles--neither of which you want on your chain.

I agree, though, that the last photo hurts to look at--everything looks ugly dry.

maydog said:

Here are a couple of pics of the cassette and chain on the bike. I don't know what you expect to see, if the cassette was visibly worn I would replace it without a second thought. Sprockets 17, 16, 15 and 14 all skip to some degree.

Since your issue isn't typical, I thought pictures couldn't hurt and might show something (as dhk2 noted). I know you say the RD is well adjusted but have you looked at the RD position when it's under the 14, 15, 16, and 17T cogs? Also, I'm not sure about the construction of your cassette and the positions and sizes of its spacers (if it has any), but if the cassette has been taken apart, are you sure you put the spacers back in their appropriate positions? Have you tried a different brand of chains? You might consider heating the gear oil before application (if that is what you are using)? I agree with dhk2 that things look awfully dry and clean. A clean chain is an unused chain. Are you applying tension to the chain before you measure it? There is nothing wrong, otherwise, with your measurement technique, and measuring over 12 links is the most accurate method possible. FWIW, I run my chains until I get 0.125" of stretch before I replace them, and I still get very long life out of them and my cassettes. My current chain (Campy UN) has 3983 miles on it and isn't close to being worn out. The old rule of thumb was that you should use 3 chains up before using up a cassette. Yeah, it's a rule of thumb so take it with a grain of salt. Using one chain per cassette indicates either you are putting out insane amounts of power and/or are the most egregious masher............or there is something wrong.

Maydog,

Two things:

1. As others pointed out, your chain appears to be very dry (not that oil has helped my wear issue!). Perhaps more oil and even a small amount of grease. A bike chain drive is an exposed low speed/high pressure application...with not much load bearing area. Chains and cassette gears have been getting smaller over the years.

2. Your clyde status 'may' have an effect on wear 'if' you are a large gear turner and/or climb a lot of hills.

I'm have no clue why I am killing chains and cassettes other than the constant climbing I do. I'm neither heavy or exceptionally powerful and my maintenance is about as good as it gets. My riding style/miles/terrain has not changed and I never had short service life with my old 5, 6, 7 and 8-speed drivelines.

Check your derailleur hanger for a vertical chain line coming off the cassette and into the cage/pulleys.

Maybe hang up your worn chains in the garage as a sign of your awesome horsepower?!

Dry? Ha, that chain was just degreased, rinsed and soaked in bar and chain oil overnight. Then it was hung and wiped down with a rag. Blame the dryness on a crappy camera. I do not use gear oil - that was campybobs contribution. The chain is glistening, if I were to squeeze the plates together it would spew out from the rollers. My issue is not with chain wear, 0.5% in 2K miles of hard riding seems acceptable no?

The rust is from the frame, the corrosive substance is my sweat. The cassette spacers are plastic and there is no rust on the cassette itself. Whatever is in that pic is just some debris that got caught in-between. My drivetrain is smooth and silent, I absoutely cannot stand any squeaking or jibber jabber from the gears/chain. Believe me, it is well lubed.

I am most interested in the apparent short life of the cassette in light of following a proper maintenance schedule.

I did ride with the old chain today, it was perfect. I doubt there is something else out of adjustment - I've double and triple checked it.

I don't consider myself a masher, I keep my cadence above 80, 90 average, except on climbs. Awesome horsepower, probably not, but I most likely put out much more than the svelte folks I ride with. I do seem to wear out components faster, I regularly thrash tires, brakes and wheels.

After doing some more research, I found what might be the ticket for maintenance. I will have 2 or 3 chains on rotation, I will swap out the current chain when it comes time to lube it. This way they all wear gradually together. Does anyone else do this?

I have used Bar & Chain oil...good stuff. It has pretty good sling-resistance. I prefer the pressure rating of gear oil though. Bar oil is cheap when purchased on-sale at Menards! [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I like your chain rotation idea...keeping the chains' wear reasonably commensurate with the cassette teeth.

Sadly, unless I switch to using a quick release link or buying a basket of Campy one-time use only rivet pins I'm SOL. I hope it works well for you, because it sounds like a logical fix to me.

maydog said:

After doing some more research, I found what might be the ticket for maintenance. I will have 2 or 3 chains on rotation, I will swap out the current chain when it comes time to lube it. This way they all wear gradually together. Does anyone else do this?

Not me. I've been happily killing chains sequentially for years, and my cassettes have seemed happy with it.

maydog, what kind of degreaser are you soaking your chains in overnight? I believe your problem is right there. If it's solvent or a base (low-ph) degreaser, that's bad news. Shimano specifically says don't use solvents, only "neutral" (ph) degreaser solutions. Just stop it and your chain will thank you. There is generally no need to soak bike chains; that just washes out the lube. Leave the chain on the bike, and use only a small amount of light oil designed for bike chains, applying one drop per bushing. I like Prolink; others probably work fine also.

Bar and chain oil is sticky stuff designed to stay on high-speed chainsaws, not bicycle chains. I've used it before, and found it attracts alot of dirt and makes a mess......that's the black gunk I see on your chainstay. The bar oil helps the dirt and grit stick to the cassette cogs also, where it serves as a great grinding paste. For longer cassette life, fix your chain maintenance routine.

The next time you buy a chain, why not try a different brand?

FWIW, my preference is for SHIMANO chains.

Again this I am not concerned with the chain wear. 2k miles is OK. 2K on a cassette seems premature for what I read.

I am soaking in oil overnight not solvent, there is no corrosion. I used to oil the other way, it does not last as long nor work as well. Once in a while I will oil on the bike if the chain gets wet and I don't have time to do a full service.

Not sure what black marks you see on the chainstays, the bike is pretty clean. I wipe the chain down after every ride.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]...I've been oiling my chain every 100 miles since new, and it has ~1500 miles on it with no signs of skipping or wear. Of course, it's also a Shimano...
Maybe try spending a bit more on oil, and (hopefully) less on chains and cassettes.

The OP did not experience skipping with 1500 miles on his chain, nor did he experience skipping with 2000 miles on his chain. If you wait until your chain is skipping before you replace it, your cogs will definitely be toast and your chainrings will probably be damaged as well.

Sram makes better chains than Shimano.

qdc15 said:

Sram makes better chains than Shimano.

How so? Evidence?