Cassette Quality

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

--

David L. Johnson

Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality.
-- Michael Crichton

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

I'd stay with the low end cassette. As Johnson wrote, the expensive stuff
doesn't last longer, it's just higher performance in some way (lighter,
smoother, etc.). But if you are just replacing one part on a drive train, I
wouldn't think you'd see enough performance improvement to matter to you.

In article <[email hidden]>,

David L. Johnson said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

As I understand it, when metals of similar hardness
are meshed together (such as with clock wheels,) wear
is increased. In other words it is desirable to have
metals of dissimilar hardness meshing together in order
to obviate wear.

So maybe the thing to look for is chains w/ harder rollers?

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Oct 25, 5:25 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

One of these snazzy Park chain wear gauge tools makes checking the
chain simple and mess-free (and thus perhaps done more often):

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=5&item=CC%2D3

They cost about $10-$15.

Joseph

email hidden said:

On Oct 25, 5:25 am, "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Quoted message said:

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

Quoted message said:

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

One of these snazzy Park chain wear gauge tools makes checking the
chain simple and mess-free (and thus perhaps done more often):

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=5&item=CC%2D3

They cost about $10-$15.

Joseph

Agreed. The Park CC-3 is cheap, easy-to-use, and (naysayers not
withstanding) accurate. It makes checking chainwear painless. IMO,
*everyone* who keeps up with bike maintanence should have one,
especially in light of today's high cassette and chainring prices.

David L. Johnson said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

My standard practice now is to replace chain and cassette at the
same time. The chain and cassette cogs will wear into one another
and you'll eventually have shift problems and then skipping problems,
especially on the lesser used cogs that haven't "worn in" with the
chain.

I do this on my bikes that range from cheapo Alivio up to Tiagra and
LX. Seems to work reasonably well. I question just how much extra
wear one saves by more frequent chain replacements.

The rings up front always seem to last through at least 2 or even 3
chain/cog replacements. I usually opt for high quality rings (Race
Face has been my more common replacement ring maker). They seem to
be harder metal but of course their larger size spreads wear more
broadly than the smaller cogs.

SMH

"Stephen Harding"wrote: My standard practice now is to replace chain and
cassette at the

Quoted message said:

same time. The chain and cassette cogs will wear into one another
and you'll eventually have shift problems and then skipping problems,
especially on the lesser used cogs that haven't "worn in" with the
chain. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you are going to be that diligent, you should carry it a step further.
When you buy a new cassette, also get a few new chains. Then change the
chains before they are really worn, and keep rotating through them until
everything is so worn it HAS to be changed. The cassette will last through
a number of chains.

<snip>
As I understand it, when metals of similar hardness are meshed together
(such as with clock wheels,) wear is increased. In other words it is
desirable to have metals of dissimilar hardness meshing together in
order to obviate wear.
So maybe the thing to look for is chains w/ harder rollers?

cheers,
        Tom
</snip>

It's a common misconception that chain wear is caused by contact between
chain rollers and cog teeth. Actually, the part of the chain that wears
is between it's own internal parts, namely the pins and rollers, as they
rub back and forth as the chain travels around the cogs, chainrings and
derailer rolers.

So getting a cassette with harder teeth will only result in changing
cogs more frequently. The chain will wear at the same rate.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

"Tom Keats" As I understand it, when metals of similar hardness

Quoted message said:

are meshed together (such as with clock wheels,) wear
is increased. In other words it is desirable to have
metals of dissimilar hardness meshing together in order to obviate wear.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not exactly true. If one part is simple and cheap to replace, it is common
to make it of a softer material, so it wears out, preserving the more
expensive or more difficult-to-replace piece. Automotive transmissions and
differentials have hardened steel gears on both sides, in order to minimize
wear. Similarly, ball bearings have hardened balls and races. The brass
gears in watches and clocks carry very little load and move slowly, so they
don't wear much. The mainspring gear is usually steel, because it carries
the highest load.

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

I wouldn't bother with the high end, but please avoid the Nashbar ones.
They appear to be made out of cheese. I had one start skipping (new
chainring and cassette) after less than 1000 miles. Not even proper
cheese, more like Velveeta.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"It is wonderful to be here in the great state of Chicago..."
-Dan Quayle

Performance cassesttes dont shift as well as shimano

Mike Kruger said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

I'd stay with the low end cassette. As Johnson wrote, the expensive stuff
doesn't last longer, it's just higher performance in some way (lighter,
smoother, etc.). But if you are just replacing one part on a drive train, I
wouldn't think you'd see enough performance improvement to matter to you.

Dane Buson said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

I wouldn't bother with the high end, but please avoid the Nashbar ones.
They appear to be made out of cheese. I had one start skipping (new
chainring and cassette) after less than 1000 miles. Not even proper
cheese, more like Velveeta.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"It is wonderful to be here in the great state of Chicago..."
-Dan Quayle

I had similar results with my Nashbar chainrings. They wore like
"cheez whiz".
(One step *below* Velveeta.)

Pureheart

Quoted message said:

Dane Buson said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

I wouldn't bother with the high end, but please avoid the Nashbar ones.
They appear to be made out of cheese. I had one start skipping (new
chainring and cassette) after less than 1000 miles. Not even proper
cheese, more like Velveeta.

I had similar results with my Nashbar chainrings. They wore like
"cheez whiz".
(One step *below* Velveeta.)

The chainrings I always got from Nashbar were Stronglights and always
seemed perfectly fine to me. Your mileage obviously varied. Everything
else I've gotten from them has been decent, the cassettes were just
plain terrible though.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"You have to give this much to the Luftwaffe: when it knocked down our
buildings it did not replace them with anything more offensive than
rubble. We did that." - Charles, Prince of Wales

Dane Buson said:

The chainrings I always got from Nashbar were Stronglights and always
seemed perfectly fine to me. Your mileage obviously varied. Everything
else I've gotten from them has been decent, the cassettes were just
plain terrible though.

He's talking about Nashbar brand rings. Vuelta is another cheapo brand
they sell that would probably last longer spread on a cracker (but at $5
works out to be a good bargain).

--

David L. Johnson

I believe that the motion picture is destined to revolutionize our
educational system and that in a few years it will supplant largely,
if not entirely, the use of textbooks
-- Thomas Edison, 1922

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David L. Johnson said:

Jorg Lueke said:

Recently I measured my chain and at 10 links it was 10 3/32" so I
decided to replace it. After doing this it slips on gears 6,7
obviously they were impacted by the stretched chain. Now this was the
base cassette that came with the Trek Pilot. My question is is it
better to spend $20 a pop for the Nashbar or low end Shimano and just
replace it with each chain, or do toes the dura-ace at $100 actuually
last for 5 chains? At the stretch I had did I wait too long?

Odd though it may seem, that even with the extra money you pay for a
"higher quality" cassette, it will not last longer than a cheaper one.
It will be lighter, it will be shinier, but it will wear out just like
any other. The really expensive ones, made from titanium, wear more
quickly than steel.

The key to getting a cassette to last through several chains is not to
wait so long to replace your chain. Your chain was seriously worn out,
and once the chain is "stretched" that much it will quickly wear out a
cassette -- chainrings, too, if you wait long enough. Changing the
chain when it is 1/16" over 12" for 12 full links will allow the
cassette to last a long time.

As I understand it, when metals of similar hardness
are meshed together (such as with clock wheels,) wear
is increased. In other words it is desirable to have
metals of dissimilar hardness meshing together in order
to obviate wear.

So maybe the thing to look for is chains w/ harder rollers?

If you want your chain to last almost as long as the frame, get a fixed
gear, single-speed or internally geared hub, and run the chain wet in an
oil bath.

Timing chains in engines can last for thousands of hours of high rpm use.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Leo Lichtman said:

"Stephen Harding"wrote: My standard practice now is to replace chain and
cassette at the

Quoted message said:

same time. The chain and cassette cogs will wear into one another
and you'll eventually have shift problems and then skipping problems,
especially on the lesser used cogs that haven't "worn in" with the
chain. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you are going to be that diligent, you should carry it a step further.
When you buy a new cassette, also get a few new chains. Then change the
chains before they are really worn, and keep rotating through them until
everything is so worn it HAS to be changed. The cassette will last through
a number of chains.

Not when your chain has more than 220 links. Of course, in this case the
chain cost more than the cassette.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?