Cassette lockring: How tight?

Mark T said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

[1] Apart from not being able to find the rim tape :-/

I think it depends on the type.

With a Shimmano 8 speed cassette I only do it up finger tight or a
little tighter if I'm not taking it off monthly to clean.

It is only there to keep the cassette in place, so the only tightness it
needs is to stop it coming undone.

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T
pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid
says...

Quoted message said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

I don't think the [censored] is an SI unit.
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/convert.htm tells us that 45Nm is about
33 lb-ft, so if your spanner is a foot long you need to hang three bags
of spuds on the end. :-)

Hi

Mark T said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

I'm not an engineer but I can't see why "[censored] tight" would be
needed. As far as I can tell there shouldn't be a loosening force [1]
acting on it (the torque is transmitted through the splined freehub
body, not against the lockring) so doing it up tight just means it's
harder to loosen. I've always just nipped it up -- you know, 12"
adjustable on the lockring tool, tighten, tight, little bit more and
that's it. Never had a problem but YMMV!

Mark

[1] told you I wasn't an engineer.

Rob Morley writtificated

Quoted message said:

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/convert.htm tells us that 45Nm is
about 33 lb-ft, so if your spanner is a foot long you need to hang
three bags of spuds on the end. :-)

Consults metric-imperial chart. That'll be 15 bags of sugar then.

Ta very much chaps.

<wanders off to loosen lockring>

Mark T pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

General advice is never do anything up [censored] tight on a bike since
they're really quite flimsy things with small pitch threads made out of
aluminium and similar materials that strip easily.

But if you didn't break it then no harm done.

Those lockrings do also have a ring of notches on them to keep them from
loosening. But they can work loose all the same so you don't want it too
loose.

45Nm means if you have a wrench about 20cm long then you should be
pushing it with a force equivalent to lifting 23kg, so probably about a
quarter your full strength (rough estimate), or 0.25 [censored].

Seem to remember somewhere seeing a reference to how many clicks you should
hear when tightening but I can't remember where !!
Methinks "[censored]" may be a little OTT

SW

"Mark T"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1]
so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

[1] Apart from not being able to find the rim tape :-/

Ben C said:

45Nm means if you have a wrench about 20cm long then you should be
pushing it with a force equivalent to lifting 23kg, so probably about a
quarter your full strength (rough estimate), or 0.25 [censored].

I think you just called him a [censored]!

Nick said:

Mark T said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike.  It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far.  Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring?  It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me.  I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

Quoted message said:

[1] Apart from not being able to find the rim tape :-/

I think it depends on the type.

With a Shimmano 8 speed cassette I only do it up finger tight or a
little tighter if I'm not taking it off monthly to clean.

It is only there to keep the cassette in place, so the only tightness it
needs is to stop it coming undone.

45Nm is pretty tight, I can't see why it needs to be that tight. Does
it have the little notches that make it feel "ratchetty" when you do
it up? Like Nick I only do them up finger tight, as tight as I can
get using just the splined socket without attaching it to a handle.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark T
pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid
says...

Quoted message said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike. It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far. Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring? It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me. I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

I don't think the [censored] is an SI unit.

isn't it about 0.1 Gorilla (angry)?

Quoted message said:

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/convert.htm tells us that 45Nm is about
33 lb-ft, so if your spanner is a foot long you need to hang three bags
of spuds on the end. :-)

Done up snug plus 45-60 degrees works well if you don't have a
torquewrench handy.

Shimano has probably more engineers working for them than visit this
newsgroup. If they say 45Nm take it they know what they are up to!
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

In article <945de072-3c9e-43e8-acc3-aa2371bad989
@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, POHB
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

45Nm is pretty tight, I can't see why it needs to be that tight. Does
it have the little notches that make it feel "ratchetty" when you do
it up? Like Nick I only do them up finger tight, as tight as I can
get using just the splined socket without attaching it to a handle.

That's not tight enough - you're lucky that it doesn't work loose. You
need to snug it down then go a few clicks more to make it secure.

M-gineering writtificated

Quoted message said:

Shimano <snippity>

I was going to be all smug and say it's Campagnolo don't you know, but it's
a mongrel combination of Miche hub, wound with a KMX chain, with a Prowheel
chainset and Rigida wheels. Shifters and mechs are Campy thobut - and now
the wheels. I couldn't resist them - they were all shiny and new and going
cheap.

POHB said:

Nick said:

Mark T said:

Whacking shiny-new wheels on the bike.  It's all gone worryingly easy[1] so
far.  Only question is how tight do I do the cassette lockring?  It says
45Nm but this means nowt to me.  I've done it up [censored] tight - is that
the right ball park?

Quoted message said:

[1] Apart from not being able to find the rim tape :-/

I think it depends on the type.

With a Shimmano 8 speed cassette I only do it up finger tight or a
little tighter if I'm not taking it off monthly to clean.

It is only there to keep the cassette in place, so the only tightness it
needs is to stop it coming undone.

45Nm is pretty tight, I can't see why it needs to be that tight. Does
it have the little notches that make it feel "ratchetty" when you do
it up? Like Nick I only do them up finger tight, as tight as I can
get using just the splined socket without attaching it to a handle.

Why things comes loose is an interesting question, but I've heard a kind
of bending action on the shaft can do it.

You're likely to get exactly that from the chain pulling on the
cassette. I have had them come loose.

Rob Morley said:

In article <945de072-3c9e-43e8-acc3-aa2371bad989
@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, POHB
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

45Nm is pretty tight, I can't see why it needs to be that tight. Does
it have the little notches that make it feel "ratchetty" when you do
it up? Like Nick I only do them up finger tight, as tight as I can
get using just the splined socket without attaching it to a handle.

That's not tight enough - you're lucky that it doesn't work loose. You
need to snug it down then go a few clicks more to make it secure.

I've been doing this for years and on an eight speed it has worked loose
only once. It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.

Its not like the cranks which really do need the full [censored].

Nick writtificated

Quoted message said:

It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.

If it is loose I think it can damage the splines and the sprockets. Dunno
how long and how loose it'd have to be thobut.

Mark T said:

Nick writtificated

Quoted message said:

It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.

If it is loose I think it can damage the splines and the sprockets. Dunno
how long and how loose it'd have to be thobut.

I don't see how. Mine doesn't seem to have enough clearance from the
frame to come off totally.

Nick said:

Mark T said:

Nick writtificated

Quoted message said:

It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.

If it is loose I think it can damage the splines and the sprockets. Dunno
how long and how loose it'd have to be thobut.

I don't see how. Mine doesn't seem to have enough clearance from the
frame to come off totally.

Sprockets can have play on the splines when a lockring is loose. The
sprockets might cause wear, especially to an aluminium freehub body, if they
are loose enough to be rattling about.

There's no reason not to tighten a lockring properly anyway - unless you're
expecting to undo it without using chainwhip.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Nick said:

Mark T said:

Nick writtificated

> It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
> going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.
If it is loose I think it can damage the splines and the sprockets. Dunno
how long and how loose it'd have to be thobut.

I don't see how. Mine doesn't seem to have enough clearance from the
frame to come off totally.

Sprockets can have play on the splines when a lockring is loose. The
sprockets might cause wear, especially to an aluminium freehub body, if they
are loose enough to be rattling about.

If the cassette is loose the gears skip, I think it only ever happened
once. I suppose the smallest seperate sproket might come cause some
damage on the spline.

Quoted message said:

There's no reason not to tighten a lockring properly anyway - unless you're
expecting to undo it without using chainwhip.

I did it so that I could replace a spoke with only a cassette tool when
I was out and about. Something that does happen more than the lock ring
working loose.

At the time I started doing it I had a failing wheel. I must admit I had
forgotten why I did it until just now. My wheels are ok now so I stopped
carrying the spare spokes but I still carry the cassette tool :o(.

Nick said:

Quoted message said:

Sprockets can have play on the splines when a lockring is loose. The
sprockets might cause wear, especially to an aluminium freehub body,
if they are loose enough to be rattling about.

If the cassette is loose the gears skip, I think it only ever happened
once. I suppose the smallest seperate sproket might come cause some
damage on the spline.

I rode with an effectively loose lockring while testing a custom Campag
8-speed cassette (that didn't have the right spacers to allow the lockring
to work). The gears didn't skip but the sprockets rattled with every bump
in the road.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's no reason not to tighten a lockring properly anyway - unless
you're expecting to undo it without using chainwhip.

I did it so that I could replace a spoke with only a cassette tool
when I was out and about. Something that does happen more than the
lock ring working loose.

It's nice not to have to worry about your lockring /ever/ loosening, though.
I carry a FibreFix kevlar spoke that doesn't need the cassette off to fit.

~PB

Nick said:

I've been doing this for years and on an eight speed it has worked loose
only once. It doesn't really matter if it does work loose, It isn't
going anywhere, all it really does is affect the indexing.

I had one work loose on a 9 speed (I think) sram cassette, leaving me
with three extra neutrals at the top of the gear range

On a 60kg bike that's a bit annoying on the downhills.

-dan