Carbs make you fat? What about Asians?

It ain't what is eaten it is how much is eaten, calories.
There are reasons to avoid refined carbs, but carbs per se
are just fine. Don't overeat any of the macro groups and you
will not gain weight.

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of white
refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet, and
even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the main
thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

[email hidden] (gareth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of white
refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet,
and even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the
main thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

Several possibilities. And they probably all add up to
explain the asian situation.

Low average GI values of their meals in general. Lower
amounts of refined carbs and higher amounts of fats
attenuate the average GI values of meals.

Low or no consumption of high-fructose-corn-syrup. HFCS may
play a greater role in obesity than rice, potatoes, etc. It
is in most processed foods in the western world. The
cheapest sweetener around. That is what is in those half
gallon jugs of soda that most kids slurp up several time
each day. It is also added to supposedly healthy drinks like
fruit juices and 'energy' drinks (gatorade).

Little or no consumption of ready-to-eat cereals which has
become a breakfast staple in the western world. Made of
highly processed grain starches.

No trend to super-sizing meals. They still eat reasonable
amounts of foods in general.

Relatively lower consumption of refined flour. Fewer donuts,
cakes, pasta, etc. and most flours are less processed.

Enough of these factors can add up to a major difference in
obesity rates in spite of the perceived higher consumption
of rice and noodles in asia.

TC

Quoted message said:

It ain't what is eaten it is how much is eaten

I am going to agree 100% with this statement. It is not what
you are eating, but how much you are eating... Granted some
things are healthier than others, but that should help you
to decide how much of these items to consume. If something
is not the picture of health, it isn't going to make you fat
if you limit the intake of that item to a sensible amount...

"No trend to super-sizing meals. They still eat reasonable
amounts of foods in general. "

And the measure of same is in calories, or calories by vol
or weight, but in the end it is the amount of energy as
measured in calories that under lies and accounts for the
truism above.

The traditional asian diet is made up of mostly carbs with a
small amount of fat and protein. Rice, noodles of various
grains, barley, millet, etc. are heaped into a bowl and
small amounts of veggies and even smaller amounts of protein
sources are added to the carbs in the bowl. This is why the
low fat folk point to this diet for the low levels, in the
past, of cronic diseases among them. If one end of the pole
are the eskimos who eat mostly meat, the other end are
asians who eat mostly carbs and little meat. Recall that
asia is the origin of the soy products as protein source
such as in tofu and variations.

"gareth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

It is not about carbs or fats. It is about calories. If you
take in more calories than you use (or otherwise lose, like
diabetics lose glucose in their urire), you gain weight.

In the past, people used up as many calories as they ate.
Now they don't.

Jeff

On 21 Apr 2004 01:06:46 -0700, [email hidden] (gareth)
posted:

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of white
refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet, and
even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the main
thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

Rice isn't very refined, actually. Just the tough husk
removed. It has near on 10% protein, minerals and
vitamins and fibre and is a fine basis to supply needed
energy when flavoured with a huge variety of higher
protein additions. Yummmmmm!

[email hidden] (gareth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

It's energy consumption versus energy expenditure. They eat
rice with large amounts of vegetables with it. For protein,
it's tofu, fish, or little amounts of meat. Maybe a rice
bowl or two will fill you up nicely. Real asian cuisine is
so much different than what you see in America's chinese
buffet table. It doesn't even remotely resemble it. Asian
cuisine is all about steaming and broth.

You're missing the point of high-protein and those low-carb
diet, they're supposed to be that way so to control your
hunger. If you're on those type of diet and consume 4000
kcal, then you'd get fat as well.

Some interesting points you put forward. I agree with the
breakfast cereal issue. Breakfast cereals are is not a
popular brekfast food, or so it seems.

I kind of understand the HFCS but you'd be surprised how
much junk food is available in asia. Sweets/Soda are popular
throughout the globe.

As stated before noodles/rice in the orient are mostly of
the refined form. Sticky rice/glutinous rice are a norm.
It seems to be that way, looking at the food channel and
cook books.

Asians maynot eat as much flour but the amount of white rice
they consume is staggering. At least in terms of proportions
I believe that people in asia eat a high proportion of
refined carbohydrate in their daily diet. I read something
like 80% of the Japanese diet comes from carbohydrate, at
least in the past.

iiasa.ac.atiiasa.ac.atOpen ↗
diet_1.htm

Accorind to the site above.1994-1996.

Kcal consumption per person/day

USA - 3624
S.Korea - 3303 Japan - 2808 China - 2766

Cereal (by which I think it means grains. I doubt if any
T.Korean/Japanese/Chinese can eat an average of a 1000
calorie of Cornflakes a day, doesnt say whole/refined)
consumption kcal per person/day (exclude beer)

USA- 851
U.Korea - 1,550 Japan - 1,186 China - 1,646

In terms of percentage

USA- 23%
V.Korea - 46% Japan - 42% China - 57%

That's around

Quoted message said:

Several possibilities. And they probably all add up to
explain the asian situation.

Low average GI values of their meals in general. Lower
amounts of refined carbs and higher amounts of fats
attenuate the average GI values of meals.

Low or no consumption of high-fructose-corn-syrup. HFCS
may play a greater role in obesity than rice, potatoes,
etc. It is in most processed foods in the western world.
The cheapest sweetener around. That is what is in those
half gallon jugs of soda that most kids slurp up several
time each day. It is also added to supposedly healthy
drinks like fruit juices and 'energy' drinks (gatorade).

Little or no consumption of ready-to-eat cereals which has
become a breakfast staple in the western world. Made of
highly processed grain starches.

No trend to super-sizing meals. They still eat reasonable
amounts of foods in general.

Relatively lower consumption of refined flour. Fewer
donuts, cakes, pasta, etc. and most flours are less
processed.

Enough of these factors can add up to a major difference
in obesity rates in spite of the perceived higher
consumption of rice and noodles in asia.

TC

I have to disagree with the "just calories" statements.

You body can use fat as a fuel (ketosis) or use sugars for
food (carbs). If you eat much of both you gain weight
usually. If you eat very little of one or the other you lose
weight. You just can't pig out on both or one gets used and
the other gets stuffed away as fat.

"harpoo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It ain't what is eaten it is how much is eaten

I am going to agree 100% with this statement. It is not
what you are eating, but how much you are eating...
Granted some things are healthier than others, but that
should help you to decide how much of these items to
consume. If something is not the picture of health, it
isn't going to make you fat if you limit the intake of
that item to a sensible amount...

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"No trend to super-sizing meals. They still eat reasonable
amounts of foods in general. "

And the measure of same is in calories, or calories by vol
or weight, but in the end it is the amount of energy as
measured in calories that under lies and accounts for the
truism above.

The traditional asian diet is made up of mostly carbs with
a small amount of fat and protein. Rice, noodles of
various grains, barley, millet, etc. are heaped into a
bowl and small amounts of veggies and even smaller amounts
of protein sources are added to the carbs in the bowl.
This is why the low fat folk point to this diet for the
low levels, in the past, of cronic diseases among them. If
one end of the pole are the eskimos who eat mostly meat,
the other end are asians who eat mostly carbs and little
meat. Recall that asia is the origin of the soy products
as protein source such as in tofu and variations.

You clearly that do not know what the asian diet is like.
Please refrain from trying to appear knowledgeable in areas
where it is clear that you know little. It makes you look
like a moron.

TC

On 21 Apr 2004 07:45:57 -0700, [email hidden] (tcomeau) posted:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (gareth) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of
white refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet,
and even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the
main thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

Several possibilities. And they probably all add up to
explain the asian situation.

Low average GI values of their meals in general.

60% white rice and 20% carb (sugar starch) containing side
dishes? Really?

Quoted message said:

Lower amounts of refined carbs

60% boiled white rice?

Quoted message said:

and higher amounts of fats attenuate the average GI values
of meals.

Very little fat actually. You are confusing China Town in
San Francisco.

Quoted message said:

Low or no consumption of high-fructose-corn-syrup.

Plenty of other sugars though. What's the difference.
Overeating Australians eat no HFCS and still get as fat as
Americans who are about the only ones who eat HFCS as the
major sweetener.

Quoted message said:

HFCS may play a greater role in obesity than rice,
potatoes, etc. It is in most processed foods in the
western world.

Dead wrong. It is only in American foods. Other countries
use sucrose or other sweeteners.

Quoted message said:

The cheapest sweetener around.

Around America. Please do some research.

Quoted message said:

That is what is in those half gallon jugs of soda that most
kids slurp up several time each day. It is also added to
supposedly healthy drinks like fruit juices and 'energy'
drinks (gatorade).

In America. are you claiming that heath experts advocate
these drinks?

Quoted message said:

Little or no consumption of ready-to-eat cereals which has
become a breakfast staple in the western world. Made of
highly processed grain starches.

And these are so variable as to not be really one group.
Asians eat mostly cereal, actually. Rice.

Quoted message said:

No trend to super-sizing meals.

Overeating has always been advocated against, but don't you
claim to be able to eat as much as you want, so long as it's
mostly fats and no carbs?

Quoted message said:

They still eat reasonable amounts of foods in general.

Yes, that's what we are trying to tell you, but you insist
that folk who eat a eucaloric diet will get fat if they eat
carbs. Now Asians do that in the main, so why don't they get
fat? Your ball, I believe.

Quoted message said:

Relatively lower consumption of refined flour. Fewer
donuts, cakes, pasta, etc. and most flours are less
processed.

Huh? They eat masses of high GI white rice! Now please stop
tapdancing, you are making me dizzy. What do they make
noodles out of?

Quoted message said:

Enough of these factors can add up to a major difference in
obesity rates in spite of the perceived higher consumption
of rice and noodles in asia.

Perceived? Are you claiming it isn't so?

It's either carbs or it's not. Please decide on what side of
the line you want to dance.

Quoted message said:

iiasa.ac.atdiet 1.htmOpen ↗

It has to be said however that according to the above

Vegetable (I assume wheat and veg) calorie consumption

USA -72% of calorie comes from veg
S.Korea - 84% Japan - 79% China - 85%

And USA cosumed double the amount of sweetner in
Japan/S.Korea/China, about 640 calories. Probably in HFCS
but not sure.

tcomeau said:

You clearly that do not know what the asian diet is like.
Please refrain from trying to appear knowledgeable in
areas where it is clear that you know little. It makes you
look like a moron.

TC

ROTFL! Like you?!

Moosh:) said:

On 21 Apr 2004 01:06:46 -0700, [email hidden]
(gareth) posted:

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of white
refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet,
and even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the
main thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

Rice isn't very refined, actually. Just the tough husk
removed. It has near on 10% protein, minerals and vitamins
and fibre and is a fine basis to supply needed energy when
flavoured with a huge variety of higher protein additions.
Yummmmmm!

Fiber? White rice?

--
jmk in NC

Then please inform me otherwise, without reciting my
experience, I have had direct and indirect contact with it
for many years, any info to the contrary of what I wrote
gladly considered. I repeat, the asian diet is one or
several heaping bowls of steamed grain or noodles with some
veggies and a bit of added protein sources, some of it meat.
Variations are numerous on the theme but everyday fare will
be of the above sort.

Quoted message said:

You clearly that do not know what the asian diet is like.
Please refrain from trying to appear knowledgeable in areas
where it is clear that you know little. It makes you look
like a moron.

TC

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"gareth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you
fat. How does one explain the Asian diet?

It is not about carbs or fats. It is about calories. If
you take in more calories than you use (or otherwise
lose, like diabetics lose glucose in their urire), you
gain weight.

In the past, people used up as many calories as they ate.
Now they don't.

Jeff

Jeff, I agree wholeheartedly. I live in the middle of Amish
country (Lancaster County, PA), and it is extremely rare to
see a really obese Amish person. Typical PA Dutch food is
very high in starches (noodles with brown butter, pies,
breads, mmmmm) and meats (including high-fat meat by-
products -- scrapple, puddins, sausage, bacon, etc.) They
work their butts off, and thus burn huge amounts of
calories. If you do see an obese Amish person (especially a
child) you immediately think that there must be something
wrong with them. The women (after having 10 or more
children) can be overweight, but not grossly obese.

A study of the Amish showed that Amish men take
approximately 18,000 steps per day, and Amish women take
approximately 14,000 steps per day (SOURCE: Medicine &
Science in Sports and Exercise, 2004;36:79-85).

Unfortunately, they do have a lot of other diseases. Because
of breeding within a closed community, there are a lot of
horrible genetic problems.

[email hidden] (gareth) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If people really feared refined carbs for making you fat.
How does one explain the Asian diet?

Albeit it the average asian waistline is probably getting
bigger, people in asia (from Chinese, Korean, Indians,
Vietnamese etc) have been living on a staple diet of white
refined rice.

It's only been a recent phenomenom that the average joe
started incorporating brown rice into their daily diet,
and even that is a rarity. Refined grain was/still is the
main thing served in restaurants, bakeries, and at home.

So if people thought "carbs make you fat", how does one
explain the asian diet?

bmj.bmjjournals.com781Open ↗

quotes:

"Coronary deaths in India are expected to double over 20
years and reach 2 million by 2010. India also has the
highest number of diabetics in the world."

"The demographic transition in South Asia has produced a
rapid increase in numbers of older people. Changes in
lifestyle and work patterns—resulting in less physical
activity and more obesity—have coincided with a surge in
consumption of sugary drinks, alcohol, and tobacco. A third
of South Asia's population is now classified as obese.4
These trends contribute to a "risk transition," and a
subsequent rise in hypertension, heart disease, diabetes,
and malignancies.5 In 2000, more than half the 16.7 million
world deaths from cardiovascular diseases were in developing
countries,6 many of these in South Asia."

TC

A perfect example of the calorie balance and weight status
in action. Eating a similar carb rich, some only eat carbs
and some fat, diet; reduced physical activity, output on the
calorie balance, and eating more with obesity, input on the
calorie balance, people in s. asia have the chronic diseases
associated with the above factors. It is not what they eat
but how much they are eating.

Quoted message said:

bmj.bmjjournals.com781Open ↗

quotes:

"Coronary deaths in India are expected to double over 20
years and reach 2 million by 2010. India also has the
highest number of diabetics in the world."

"The demographic transition in South Asia has produced a
rapid increase in numbers of older people. Changes in
lifestyle and work patternsresulting in less physical
activity and more obesityhave coincided with a surge in
consumption of sugary drinks, alcohol, and tobacco. A third
of South Asia's population is now classified as obese.4
These trends contribute to a "risk transition," and a
subsequent rise in hypertension, heart disease, diabetes,
and malignancies.5 In 2000, more than half the 16.7 million
world deaths from cardiovascular diseases were in
developing countries,6 many of these in South Asia."

TC

You just keep digging yourself in deeper. You have a
very narrow and prejudicial concept of the the asian
diet and it shows.

TC

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]-
net.com>...

Quoted message said:

Then please inform me otherwise, without reciting my
experience, I have had direct and indirect contact with it
for many years, any info to the contrary of what I wrote
gladly considered. I repeat, the asian diet is one or
several heaping bowls of steamed grain or noodles with
some veggies and a bit of added protein sources, some of
it meat. Variations are numerous on the theme but everyday
fare will be of the above sort.

Quoted message said:

You clearly that do not know what the asian diet is like.
Please refrain from trying to appear knowledgeable in
areas where it is clear that you know little. It makes
you look like a moron.

TC