Carbon Fiber Bars

I have EC90's and absolutely love them over the 250 gram aluminum because the vibrations are more effectively damped. Its a material thing, carbon fiber orientation can be engineered to make a stiff, yet low vibration bar.

With good tape, I ride without gloves.

I ride an '98 alu. frame w. Bontrager Racelite clinchers, 1" full carbon fork, ITM Millenium aheadset, D-A STI levers, cork tape and, finally, 25.8 mm Easton EC90 bars (42cm m-m).
The reason I give you this information is that the complete bike must be taken in consideration before buying anything, just as the purpose of the new bar must be so: Are you a recreational rider or do you race?
Carbon handle bars are getting cheaper and cheaper so the primary object of your final choice should be ergonomics (can I ride w. these bars 3+ hours?). Never mind if they look cool in the shop, you'll never see much of them, once they're mounted.
There _are_ some vibrational damping advantages in carbon handle bars, but not nearly as many - in my experience FWIW - as in the fork.
Take good notice of the size of your bike's ahead set? If it is 1" you should avoid a full carbon fork because this weakens the stiffness of the frame (instead, go alu. or Cr.Mo.). Also, what is the size of you stem? Standard or oversize? If it is oversize you're most likely to achieve very stiff handle bars incl. a weight reduction. If it is standard sized handle bars, and if you are a big rider or a gear masher, I have _heard_ (but this doesn't come from my own experience) that they can feel a bit soft when sprinting and climbing.
Finally, there is "the problem of crash". If you crash (and if you race you're most likely to do so, sooner or later) w. carbon bars you seriously have to consider buying new handle bars (similar to this, you need to buy a new helmet if your head hit the ground in the crash). Carbon handle bars do not bend or get dented like alu., they don't even crackle so that you can _see_ damages, they just snap ...

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by bone
Given all the various materials out there, why would anyone spend significantly more (say titanium vs aluminum) if there was no difference?

A lot of that is to do with marketing hype. People have done tests where they have put good riders on similar looking bikes made of different materials and asked them which is the most comfortable. The results showed that the material made little or no difference. Many riders felt that Aluminium frames were more comfortable in that test even though they had heard all the "too stiff, I feel beat up" arguments.

It is like people paying extra for HP chainstays on Colnagos or silly seat tubes on Trek Madones. These make NO difference in real terms but they look good, they are hyped with bogus arguments and plenty of people will pay big $$ for them and tell you how much better they are.

Handlebars won't make a huge difference to comfort, whether they are CF or not. The major players in the comfort game are bike fit, bike design, carbon forks, saddle, cycling chamois, tyre pressure, tyre choice, wheels and seat post (not necessarily in that order). Changing from one material to another will make a difference in the range of 0.01%. If you are happy to pay and they make you feel good, go for it. Don't do it if the money is an issue or if you are hoping this change will get you racing in a higher category.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by patch70


Handlebars won't make a huge difference to comfort, whether they are CF or not. The major players in the comfort game are bike fit, bike design, carbon forks, saddle, cycling chamois, tyre pressure, tyre choice, wheels and seat post (not necessarily in that order). Changing from one material to another will make a difference in the range of 0.01%. If you are happy to pay and they make you feel good, go for it. Don't do it if the money is an issue or if you are hoping this change will get you racing in a higher category.

carbon forks are liter, not better for ride comfort

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by fushman
carbon forks are liter, not better for ride comfort

Either way, saving a few grams makes almost no difference to 99.9% of riders
The major difference is psychological in that the rider believes that it is better. If you really want to get better, train harder.

Wow! We haven't had one of these p*ssing contests around here in a long time. The cheap political shots (in both directions) are particularly charming. And you've all chosen a lovely weekend to break the dam over. There's clearly not enough riding going on!

Bone, I'm going to add my piece. There are very few technological advantages to be bought where modern cycling equipment is concerned -- at least few that are truly quantifiable. Part of the problem is the vast range of material grades, designs, and executions out there. Carbon fiber is probably the toughest material to make any real claims about, because raw CF sheets or tubes are literally assembled from scratch, and every other bike company is using CF sourced from different places. Giant, among others, makes much of their own CF in-house. How the resulting sheets or tubes are shaped, joined, and otherwise implemented makes all the difference as well.

There's no real way to offer up a valid generalization regarding, say, carbon handlebars as opposed to alloy ones.

While the target for criticism tonight seems to be CF handlebars, in truth, the same issue of ambivalent advantages can be applied to nearly everything you slap on your bike -- aside from matters of fit, there's a whole lot of psychology involved in how a bike feels beneath you. Assuming they're similarly shaped, a $20 pair of alloy Ritchey bars likely feels about the same as a $99 Deda set. The truly quantifiable differences -- a few grams, or a degree of stiffness -- won't matter unless you're trying to edge out a close competitor on stage 26 of some awful mountain race.

So why spend money on fancy stuff at all? I'll tell ya why I do. Because it's friggin' cool, is why. I've got a pair of far-too-costly 3T MORE carbon bars on my Klein, and hell, they do feel great. Of course, I can't determine with any scientific certainty that the spared grams, or the fancy carbon, is necessarily why they feel great, but here's the thing:

I set out to make a bike that rode smooth, was as light as possible, and most of all, excited me. I had the budget to spring for fancy bars, so why not? Maybe they'll help the ride, maybe they wont. I can say that between the fancy frame, the fancy wheels, the fancy seatpost, the fancy stem, and the fancy bottle cages, the damn thing feels excellent.

Mind your budget, mind the rent, be conscious of the hype-factor and keep in mind that no gadget can serve as a holy grail for bike performance... beyond that, buy whatever the hell will make you smile. A happy rider rides more, rides faster, and probably has more sex.

Good luck, ignore the punks, and enjoy whatever you buy. 😎

FWIW I recently switched to Ambrosio Carbon bars costing only $120. My reason for doing so is not because of comfort but of stiffness without adding weight and they don't cost much.

They do feel differently and I got the stiffness I was looking for. I also found slight differences in feel between the AL & CF when negotiating rough pavement in the sense that the CF have a 'muffled' feel. I ride most of the time on good pavement and I doubt if a CF 'feels' better than an AL bar if they are equally stiff.

I know I could get AL bars which are as stiff as the Ambrosios but I did not get them because they were CF but rather they fitted my criteria of stiffness, lightweight and right price.

I was choosing between Schmolke,Ritchey and Easton carbon bars for my new bike but enden up with Ritchey WCS aluminium instead.
Why four reasons: 1. The alu felt stiffer (I did the twist and pull test) and i´m push and pull kind of guy in sprints 2. Like Sindoe said if you crash you have replace even what loks like a perfectly fine bar unless you like playin poker (crashes are inevatable). 3. The aluminium Ritchey weighed almost (5 gram difference) the same as the carbon bars or the same (Scholke excluded) 4. Price I just saved between 150-300 dollars (depending on what carbon bar).

I agree with patch70 and tafi on all points actually. Cheers. But back to topic:

Far as I'm concerned, its your fork that will play more of a role in terms of road vibration than will your handlebars. I'd rather put the money there. If you've already got a carbon fork with a carbon steering tube, AL bars will suit you fine, especially given the added stiffness during higher exertion. The weight difference is negligible but performance is key.

Before laying out the cash for carbon bars, see if you can test ride a bike setup that would match. Most shops will let you do that. Might be the only way to know for sure ahead of time if that's really what you want.

lokstah,Dennis Dee,mrowkoob,Patch70, and Graf Zeppelin,
Thanks for the replies, this was exactly the kind of information I was expecting and looking for.
Bone

Carbon indeed has limited ductility BUT the failure mode for most composites isn't yielding, its delamination because matrix strength limitations. Since carbon boars are made of a weave, there is further matrix yeilding instead of tensile failure. Even Spinergy Rev-X failures showed significant pre-failure delamination which should have signaled the user of impending failure.

And I HAVE noticed increased comfort in riding from using EC90 bars over cheaper 250 gram, 42cm aluminum bars.

Now, about 1" carbon steerers being weak, that only applies to off road. On the road, uless you weigh over 250 pounds and ride a 64 cm frame, a quality 1" carbon steerer is sufficient for all riding. 1-1/8" steerers were a product of the off-road riding and out of the interest of single tooling for the frame, single inventory for headsets and stems, they were applied to road bikes.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Weisse Luft
Carbon indeed has limited ductility BUT the failure mode for most composites isn't yielding, its delamination because matrix strength limitations. Since carbon boars are made of a weave, there is further matrix yeilding instead of tensile failure. Even Spinergy Rev-X failures showed significant pre-failure delamination which should have signaled the user of impending failure.

And I HAVE noticed increased comfort in riding from using EC90 bars over cheaper 250 gram, 42cm aluminum bars.

Now, about 1" carbon steerers being weak, that only applies to off road. On the road, uless you weigh over 250 pounds and ride a 64 cm frame, a quality 1" carbon steerer is sufficient for all riding. 1-1/8" steerers were a product of the off-road riding and out of the interest of single tooling for the frame, single inventory for headsets and stems, they were applied to road bikes.

carbon and alum bars can both bend more slowly and break suddenly, and frankly either case sucks

I have failed aluminum bars and yes, its sudden failure. I have not yet had a carbon bar failure but have had carbon fiber landing gear fail in my radio-controled aircraft. It was a hard landing and the only problem was a mis-aligned wheel, causing a slight ground loop.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by webified
tafi wrote in a privious post 'Welcome to the world of Sydney Road Racing.
Being from "God's country" (according to my old man anyway) you will have good access to a few good options for racing.
The big clubs in the area are Manly Warringah and Bicisport (my old club). Both have plenty of riders, so, as long as you are prepared to talk to a few people there'll be plenty of knowledge to soak up.'

Look above, you started it with the God's country mentailty.

I come here to talk about bike stuff unless some BOZO gets off track.

You can talk down on me with your so called better educated self pious ramblings but that obiviously is a smoke sceen to attempt to cover your own rude and annoying ignorance.

Look, you started out with the attitude and you know it.

You are indeed a waste of my time, mister big shot, go stick your degrees along with your snuggly fit handle bars up your a$$.

If you had ever been to Manly/Warringah you would know that many of the locals (of which my father is one - he was raised in Brookvale) jokingly refer to the area in this way. Note the use of quotation marks (ie: "God's country"😉 to distance myself from the comment. You obviously didn't pick the sarcasm (why am I not surprised?) denoted by this and the following parentheses. And so my "mentality" (see the quotation marks again?) is non existant.

If you had read the post to which i was replying (the original poster being from the Northern Beaches of Sydney) you may have been able to understand the context of what I was writing. But then again maybe you did read it and you couldn't understand it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect you to completely understand it since it is a local Sydneysider joke. When I reply to something I usually personalise the reply. However I don't expect someone who doesn't understand it (or someone who can't read the punctuation) to completely disregard the context of what was written and make up their own mind. I bvelieve you used the word "ignorance" above. You have been ignorant of the application of the post to which you refer.

I am not here to make frivilous arguments but I fear that this will turn into another one.

So I would just ask you to read properly anything you're going to reply to before shooting your mouth off.

I would also like to point out that the reason I stated my qualifications was because you obviously didn't trust my judgement.

I'd also like to apologise to those others who have to put up with this argument. This is a forum for cycling and I'd like it to remain that way but I must defend (and explain) myself. Unless webified continues on about things he doesn't understand, this will be the last post I'll make on this thread.

Cheers

The question is : are carbon bars so much better that for the same weight , or more , of a good ali bar that you will pay x2 or x3 for them when you know that in a fall / crash they will have to be replaced ( both types ) , but you can ride home with a bent bar - and carbon don´t bend - plus the risk of cracking due to mistightening ( and that goes for carbon seat tubes too )

still your money : your right to buy stuff that´s overpriced

Quality carbon bars are much less likely to break in a crash. I have yet to see a carbon bar break, be it from fatigue or from impact.

Sure, buy cheap carbon fiber stuff and it can fail. But then again, all the crashes I have seen have been with Easton bars or equal and not one broke. I didn't get to examine every one but the ones I did appeared to be fine, at least for a cautious finish or hop home.

On stiffness, carbon bars can be made to nearly ANY stiffness required and still have surplus strength to handle extreme deflections without breaking. Ever see a Cannondale Scalpel mountain bike? The chainstay is FLEXIBLE CF and forms part of the suspension spring, the other part being the spring in the shock. And I have not had a single problem with mine. Its called Engineered Pivot Orientation.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by el Inglés
The question is : are carbon bars so much better that for the same weight , or more , of a good ali bar that you will pay x2 or x3 for them when you know that in a fall / crash they will have to be replaced ( both types ) , but you can ride home with a bent bar - and carbon don´t bend - plus the risk of cracking due to mistightening ( and that goes for carbon seat tubes too )

If there truly were accurate equations (like this one) which could help riders and buyers determine the value of popular cycling technology, no one would ever have to scratch their heads while shopping for new gear -- and no one would ever get excited about new gear either. The fact of the matter is, though, that these trade-offs aren't fixed rules, and neither are the value equations we imagine for ourselves. How concerned a given rider is with, say, the fragility of their handlebars, relies on lots of things: what make/model or handlebar they purchase, their riding style, their interest in the product's stated advantages, their budget, and so on.

So long as the disadvantages (or advantages) of these products are subjective, fluxuating, or otherwise dependent on different circumstances, it doesn't make sense to insist that anyone buying something like carbon bars is wasting their money.

I agree... nothing is too expensive if you really want it.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by dennis dee
I agree... nothing is too expensive if you really want it.

Oddly true, of course. To put in perspective, though, I've got very different handlebars on my current road bikes -- a $250 pair of 3T More carbon bars on one, and a pair of modest $50-ish Cinelli Altera bars on the other. I'm satisfied with each.

The alloy Cinellis sit happily clamped into my everyday bike; they're not super ergonomic or lightweight, but they're solid feeling and they get the job done.

The 3Ts sit even more happily on my hot rod. They're feather light, very comfy under my hands, and sexy as a m*thaf*ka. This isn't a cross bike; it's a bike that I polish every 6 hours and would keep off the gravel with broken wrists and shattered ankles. I bought a new torque wrench just for the damn bike. Do I worry about the fancy bars? No more than I worry about any other part of that bike.

I probably wouldn't swap the bars between the bikes, either -- just like I enjoy having a workhorse bike and a silky prize horse bike, I have a workhorse handlebar and a prize horse handlebar.

Weisse, good point regarding C'Dale's use of carbon on their latest Scalpel. Carbon sees plenty of use elsewhere on rough 'n tumble race applications; a number of cross teams use carbon bars, and countless XC teams use lightweight carbon seatposts.