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Carbon Care

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2 March 2006
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alison_b
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  1. [This is copied from an e-newsletter, RoadBikeRider.com Newsletter
    Issue No. 234 - 03/02/06: Carbon Care ISSN 1536-4143, a freebie newsletter filled with sometimes interesting and sometimes useful - for me anyway. 🙂 Having recently been introduced to the joys of carbon comfort I've been a little worried about stories of things breaking with no warning so found this... comforting... On reflection I'd have put noises down to moving bits of the bike, and weird handling to my own lack of skills :o Oh... and I ride a Giant, have only ever ridden Giants, all my family have Giants, all my extended family have Giants, etc.😄 ]

    2. Uncle Al: Carbon Care o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o

    I'm a Trek dealer and proud of it.

    I'm sure plenty of you have experiences and opinions
    regarding different bike brands that make you either loyal
    followers or harsh critics. I'm not trying to sell bikes
    here, but I think you should know how committed Trek is to
    the safety of riders, particularly those that use carbon
    fiber components.

    Riders keep asking the question: "How do I know if my carbon
    frame/fork/bar/stem is damaged and about to fail?"

    One good way is to follow the lead that Trek has established
    in the industry with its Carbon Care Program. Using Trek's
    guidelines, you'll be able to make a very educated guess as
    to the condition of your equipment following that fall in a
    sandy corner or drive into the garage with your prized
    possession still on the roof rack.

    It goes like this:

    ---Visual test. Check the carbon for gouges, scratches,
    cracks, loose fibers and other unexplained visual flaws.
    When you're cleaning your machine (I know you do that often)
    and the rag gets snagged, it's a sign that something isn't
    right and needs a closer look.

    ---Audible test. Listen for uncommon sounds when you're
    riding: creaks, pops, groans and other weird noises you've
    never heard before. If these sounds are coming from your
    body, that doesn't really count. You might want to go see
    Andy Pruitt.

    ---Tactile test. Pay attention to how your bike shifts,
    brakes, corners and accelerates, feeling for any strange
    changes to handling or ride quality. If the bike pulls one
    way or the other, if it's suddenly ghost shifting or if it
    has simply lost that loving feeling, investigate what's up.
    When a shadow of doubt creeps into your mind, follow your
    instincts.

    Carbon fiber components do not always show obvious signs of
    impending failure. So if any of these three tests make you
    suspicious about the health of your carbon widget, run,
    don't walk, to your favorite bike shop and have them scope
    it out. They'll use an expert eye and experience to give you
    what might be the most important opinion you ever hear.

    Of course, other materials can fail too. As a matter of
    course, check every frame, fork and component for signs of
    stress and damage no matter what they're made of. You'd be
    amazed at how much cracked equipment we've discovered at the
    shop when the owners had no idea.

    You can save yourself from needless pain and suffering by
    simply doing Trek's three tests. My hat's off to them on
    this one.

    (Click [email hidden] to tell us a mechanical
    matter you'd like to see Uncle-ized. To read more from Uncle
    Al, click here.)

  2. alison wrote -

    Quoted message said:

    Oh... and I ride a Giant, have only ever ridden
    Giants, all my family have Giants, all my extended family have Giants,
    etc.😄 ]


    but don't forget, pronounication is everything, - it is always "geee -
    ahnt", as in -
    "I zinc I weel be riding the geee - ahnt en Zunday".

    ....followed by a slightly patronizing look over the tops of your sunnies at
    the Pinarellos and Madones ...

    best, Andrew (Giant Cadex circa '92 - I think it may be the re-sprays that
    keep it together)

  3. alison wrote -

    Quoted message said:

    Oh... and I ride a Giant, have only ever ridden
    Giants, all my family have Giants, all my extended family have Giants,
    etc.😄 ]


    but don't forget, pronounication is everything, - it is always "geee -
    ahnt", as in -
    "I zinc I weel be riding the geee - ahnt en Zunday".

    ....followed by a slightly patronizing look over the tops of your sunnies at
    the Pinarellos and Madones ...

    best, Andrew (Giant Cadex circa '92 - I think it may be the re-sprays that
    keep it together)

  4. I prefer the strayan vershun.

    "Joiyant"

  5. I thought you were going to offer some wise insight into carbon care
    like not riding through giant potholes!

    PiledHigher

  6. PiledHigher said:


    I thought you were going to offer some wise insight into carbon care
    like not riding through giant potholes!

    PiledHigher

    Or removing your bike from the roof racks before parking in the
    garage... (actually, just another reason to not have a garage door
    remote).

    Tam

  7. alison_b said:

    [This is copied from an e-newsletter, RoadBikeRider.com Newsletter
    Issue No. 234 - 03/02/06: Carbon Care ISSN 1536-4143,

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure plenty of you have experiences and opinions
    regarding different bike brands that make you either loyal
    followers or harsh critics.
    It goes like this:
    ---Visual test.
    ---Audible test.
    ---Tactile test.
    Carbon fiber components do not always show obvious signs of
    impending failure. So if any of these three tests make you
    suspicious about the health of your carbon widget, run,
    don't walk, to your favorite bike shop and have them scope
    it out. They'll use an expert eye and experience to give you
    what might be the most important opinion you ever hear.

    Makes me happy to have a nice Columbus frame.

    Theo

  8. "Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    alison_b said:

    [This is copied from an e-newsletter, RoadBikeRider.com Newsletter
    Issue No. 234 - 03/02/06: Carbon Care ISSN 1536-4143,

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure plenty of you have experiences and opinions
    regarding different bike brands that make you either loyal
    followers or harsh critics.
    It goes like this:
    ---Visual test.
    ---Audible test.
    ---Tactile test.
    Carbon fiber components do not always show obvious signs of
    impending failure. So if any of these three tests make you
    suspicious about the health of your carbon widget, run,
    don't walk, to your favorite bike shop and have them scope
    it out. They'll use an expert eye and experience to give you
    what might be the most important opinion you ever hear.

    Makes me happy to have a nice Columbus frame.

    Theo

    I have to say, the mode of failure is the one thing (other than price) that
    puts me off carbon. Bending and denting strikes me as more forgiving than a
    crunching snap. Maybe I should start saving and looking longingly at the
    XACD website.

  9. I couldn't agree more. The blokes I ride with have had quite a few issues
    with their aluminium & carbon road bikes over the last few years. We've
    developed a saying:
    Aluminium cracks, Carbon snaps, Steel is real!
    And to top it off, just found out my second alluminium frame in less than 3
    years has a crack at the top of the head tube! This frame is just over two
    years old with a two year warranty. How typical! But I have an 18 year old
    steel mountain bike that has never had a part changed even though I ride
    through hell!
    Now I know steel can fatigue but I think it has better track record than the
    other two options and titanium would most like get the divorce papers ready
    for signing.
    I'll be getting a steel road frame next and hopefully should last a little
    longer. Although it may be a little heaver, there's no yellow jersey waiting
    at the end of my rides where every second doesn't count!
    Someone suggested with the broken frames, spokes, saddle rails & cracked
    rims I've had in the last 3 years, maybe I need to lose weight. I know 76
    kilos @ 176cm might not be pro race stuff but geez, is it really that heavy?

    "Resound" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    alison_b said:

    [This is copied from an e-newsletter, RoadBikeRider.com Newsletter
    Issue No. 234 - 03/02/06: Carbon Care ISSN 1536-4143,

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure plenty of you have experiences and opinions
    regarding different bike brands that make you either loyal
    followers or harsh critics.
    It goes like this:
    ---Visual test.
    ---Audible test.
    ---Tactile test.
    Carbon fiber components do not always show obvious signs of
    impending failure. So if any of these three tests make you
    suspicious about the health of your carbon widget, run,
    don't walk, to your favorite bike shop and have them scope
    it out. They'll use an expert eye and experience to give you
    what might be the most important opinion you ever hear.

    Makes me happy to have a nice Columbus frame.

    Theo

    I have to say, the mode of failure is the one thing (other than price)
    that puts me off carbon. Bending and denting strikes me as more forgiving
    than a crunching snap. Maybe I should start saving and looking longingly
    at the XACD website.

  10. I'll add my data points!

    Lugged Tange Cromolly steel - cracked the RHS dropout, was a triangle
    style dropout subsequently repaired and had a fair amount of use both
    before and after.
    Fillet brazed 753 Steel - Cracked the RHS chain stay, just before the
    dropout, also subsequently repaired and still in use
    All aluminium, semi aero welded frame - undefeated as yet 25,000K
    Aluminium with carbon seat and chain stays - undefeated as yet 11,000K

    Any frame can break, they break differently and it pays to be aware of
    unusual noises.

  11. I'll contribute three repaired cracks (rear drive chainstay at both ends &
    bottom of seat tube) in 20,000km on a lugged reynolds 531 frame before I
    gave up & switched to the venerable Giant CFR1 in 1993 and am still riding
    that same frame today ... some 200,000kms later. Needless to say its had a
    number of drivetrains on it over the years ;-)
    I'm not exactly lightweight either.

    "PiledHigher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll add my data points!

    Lugged Tange Cromolly steel - cracked the RHS dropout, was a triangle
    style dropout subsequently repaired and had a fair amount of use both
    before and after.
    Fillet brazed 753 Steel - Cracked the RHS chain stay, just before the
    dropout, also subsequently repaired and still in use
    All aluminium, semi aero welded frame - undefeated as yet 25,000K
    Aluminium with carbon seat and chain stays - undefeated as yet 11,000K

    Any frame can break, they break differently and it pays to be aware of
    unusual noises.

  12. On 2006-03-02, alison_b (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:


    [This is copied from an e-newsletter, RoadBikeRider.com Newsletter
    Issue No. 234 - 03/02/06: Carbon Care ISSN 1536-4143, a freebie
    newsletter filled with sometimes interesting and sometimes useful - for
    me anyway. 🙂 Having recently been introduced to the joys of carbon
    comfort I've been a little worried about stories of things breaking
    with no warning so found this... comforting... On reflection I'd have
    put noises down to moving bits of the bike, and weird handling to my own
    lack of skills :o Oh... and I ride a Giant, have only ever ridden
    Giants, all my family have Giants, all my extended family have Giants,
    etc.😄 ]

    Bloody inbreds.

    Quoted message said:

    ---Tactile test. Pay attention to how your bike shifts,
    brakes, corners and accelerates, feeling for any strange
    changes to handling or ride quality. If the bike pulls one
    way or the other, if it's suddenly ghost shifting or if it
    has simply lost that loving feeling, investigate what's up.
    When a shadow of doubt creeps into your mind, follow your
    instincts.

    After the last time I was hit by a car, I got my back wheel replaced.

    Now, whenever I accelerate from a red light, not necessarily with
    overloaded panniers on, I get draggage across my (rear) brakes. There
    is *nothing* wrong with the frame. No breakages at welds. No
    abnormal flexing. No cracking, etc. The wheel is not flexy. I
    cannot see anything move when I jam the brakes on and/or jam the front
    wheel up against the wall, and stomp on the pedals.

    And there is a certain ratio between the 52 tooth and 39 tooth (middle
    ring) that cannot produce a speed without dragging the chain across
    the derailler. I've adjusted the front derailler forth and backwards
    over several weeks, and just cannot get the sweetspot again. There is
    *nothing* bent, I swear. The derailleur is straight.

    Dammit. Stupid fragile bikes (dammit, why can't they accept being hit
    by a 2 tonne vehicle? What is wrong with them!?) and my stupid
    untrained eyes. What am I (and Peter Moore) missing?

    --
    TimC
    All Tims are illusions, except for Lunch Tim, who is doubly so.
    --screwtape on RHOD

  13. JoeD said:

    I couldn't agree more. The blokes I ride with have had quite a few issues
    with their aluminium & carbon road bikes over the last few years. We've
    developed a saying:
    Aluminium cracks, Carbon snaps, Steel is real!
    And to top it off, just found out my second alluminium frame in less than 3
    years has a crack at the top of the head tube! This frame is just over two
    years old with a two year warranty. How typical! But I have an 18 year old
    steel mountain bike that has never had a part changed even though I ride
    through hell!
    Now I know steel can fatigue but I think it has better track record than the
    other two options and titanium would most like get the divorce papers ready
    for signing.
    I'll be getting a steel road frame next and hopefully should last a little
    longer. Although it may be a little heaver, there's no yellow jersey waiting
    at the end of my rides where every second doesn't count!
    Someone suggested with the broken frames, spokes, saddle rails & cracked
    rims I've had in the last 3 years, maybe I need to lose weight. I know 76
    kilos @ 176cm might not be pro race stuff but geez, is it really that heavy?

    You're not especially heavy - you're breaking frames 'cos you're (a) unlucky, or (b) hitting bumps a little too hard. Steel frames can't help you with either.

    Ritch

  14. TimC said:

    Bloody inbreds.

    Nope, Giant. Inbreds are On-One aren't they?

    Quoted message said:

    Dammit. Stupid fragile bikes (dammit, why can't they accept being hit by
    a 2 tonne vehicle? What is wrong with them!?) and my stupid untrained
    eyes. What am I (and Peter Moore) missing?

    Try a mallet. For fine tuning front derailleurs they're actually useful -
    you can adjust one thing at a time by loosening the collar just a touch
    then tapping it up, down, around, etc. I'd say you've either got a very
    slight bend in the cage (ask Mr Multigrips for assistance) or the height
    is out a tad - try dropping the cage about 0.5mm and see if that helps.

    --
    Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
    "Violins are the first refuge of the incontinent." The Cave

  15. Michael Warner wrote -

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Joiyant"


    Very noice boiks!

    The Seth Efrican pronunciation should not of course be ignored - as best I
    can put it our latest recruit from the veldt is fond of statements like -

    "Orr, you mean your going to ride with Mork, in the pork?"

    best, Andrew

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