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Carbon basics

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01 / Original postCarbon basicsVolnix · 30 Jul 2013 02 / This pagePosts 1–13Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #13Volnix · 31 Jul 2013

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Cycling Equipment
Published
30 July 2013
Last activity
31 July 2013
Original author
Volnix
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13
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Public discussion
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Cranksets

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  1. Original post
    Volnix
    Archived post
    #1

    Hi [IMG]files.cyclingforums.comsmile.png[/IMG]

    I was reading about carbon fiber frames and apparently there are a few points that differ between them.

    On is the manufacturing process, I was reading about this new process used by BMC where the frames are waived with a robot and the final result can always have the correct thickness on the tube wall for the mysterious loads for which the bike industry is designing their bikes for.

    1.

    One thing that seemed a bit unclear are the different types of weave of the carbon fiber layers.

    Apparently there is 3k, 12k, and Uni-Directional (UD) tubing (maybe other types too).

    I dont remember where I seen 3k, but Pinarello (lamborghotti fasterossa) is using 12k or something on their top of the line bikes and some of the simpler carbon fiber stuff from some manufacturers is made from UD carbon weave.

    What is the differences in operation between the different weave arrangments? Is it better to have a 12k or 3k waiving then UD weave?

    2.

    And then there is the whole fatigue damage resistance issue.

    Apparently carbon fiber does not have any fatigue damage issues. So lets say a layer of carbon fiber under cycle loads for really long wont have any cracks occuring.

    Does the same apply for the final resin infused product? It is the resin that makes the carbon fiber layers rigid right? Is the resin also so fatigue damage resistant as the carbon layers?

    Thanks. [IMG]files.cyclingforums.comsmile.png[/IMG]

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  2. CAMPYBOB
    Archived post
    #2

    "... So lets say a layer of carbon fiber under cycle loads for really long wont have any cracks occuring."

    Uh...yeah. No.

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

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  3. Volnix
    Archived post
    #3
    Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    "... So lets say a layer of carbon fiber under cycle loads for really long wont have any cracks occuring."

    Uh...yeah. No.

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

    Makes you feel good about the whole laboratory testing results huh? [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG]

    So... Did the resin broke and then the whole thing just kinda floped or did the whole thing broke into two pieces to begin with?

    Maybe the resin was even stronger then the CF ultimate shear load, first the CF was gone (because of an even bigger load then the max) and then the resin broke too after cycle or catastrophic loads?

    Maybe the clamp created a crack?

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  4. CAMPYBOB
    Archived post
    #4

    Carbon bicycle pieces parts, frames and forks come undone. That's all that matters. It fails in a different mode than steel, aluminum and titanium, but it fails.

    Sometimes that failure is...spectacular. I had an aluminum crank arm fail in such a spectacular fashion.

    No matter what the material, the designers will push the envelop and keep the failure point too close for (my) comfort.

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  5. vspa
    Archived post
    #5

    Boeing is making commercial airplanes, the 788 dreamliner, for the first time with carbon fiber, more than a decade behind cycling, maybe one day they will advertise the airplane as having " cycling grade CF " !

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  6. Volnix
    Archived post
    #6
    Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by vspa [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    Boeing is making commercial airplanes, the 788 dreamliner, for the first time with carbon fiber, more than a decade behind cycling, maybe one day they will advertise the airplane as having " cycling grade CF " !

    lol [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG]

    The design process is probably much simpler on the bikes... Its just the loads they design I worry about... The more load cases the better, allthough if they had everything in mind then they wouldnt be tooo light maybe... Thats why they started with different standards for racing, city and mountain bikes I guess.

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  7. alienator
    Archived post
    #7
    Volnix said:

    lol [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG] The design process is probably much simpler on the bikes... Its just the loads they design I worry about... The more load cases the better, allthough if they had everything in mind then they wouldnt be tooo light maybe... Thats why they started with different standards for racing, city and mountain bikes I guess.

    What? What do you know about the loads for which they design? What do you know about the tools they use? Weren't you supposed to have some engineering education?

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  8. CAMPYBOB
    Archived post
    #8

    "What do you know about the loads for which they design?"

    Pfffft!

    Here's the head of my Quality Control Department, Loads & Stresses Group!

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

    Tooling? You're clueless! Here we test for loads...yup. it passed!

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

    All of our products bear the coveted CE "Viking Approved" label, demonstrating strength and longevity!

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

    Finally, we hire only the finest scientists!

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com700[/IMG]

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  9. Volnix
    Archived post
    #9

    Alienator your attempts to make me angry and ban me from the forum are not working! [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG]

    Unfortunately you sneaking beyond my block into my email inbox does...

    I have come into a new possible theory about you:

    You are one of those chat-roulete haters, but you are soooo sneaky that you pretend to be a hater - hater, and try to ban normal people like me by causing net arguments.

    There, [IMG]files.cyclingforums.comtongue.png[/IMG]

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  10. alienator
    Archived post
    #10
    Volnix said:

    Alienator your attempts to make me angry and ban me from the forum are not working!  Unfortunately you sneaking beyond my block into my email inbox does... I have come into a new possible theory about you: You are one of those chat-roulete haters, but you are soooo sneaky that you pretend to be a hater - hater, and try to ban normal people like me by causing net arguments. There,Â

    From someone as infantile as you, that means nothing.

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  11. Volnix
    Archived post
    #11

    Ouf... dodged that one, except the first 5 words or something... [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG]

    Alienator... man... f%$# chill... [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.png[/IMG]

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  12. CAMPYBOB
    Archived post
    #12

    He's a master baiter.

    Report
  13. Volnix
    Archived post
    #13
    Quoted post said:

    Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

    He's a master baiter.

    Oh well since the thread is gone sour...

    I was actually interested in the diff. between 12k, 3k etc carbon but I guess I have to read from the websites from these guys as long "good 'ol aliens" is around:

    [IMG]cyclingforums.com1000[/IMG]

    Here's some more "[censored]'in UFO class carbon tech":

    metacafe.com3453319

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