canted wheels on a trailer?

Gary Young said:

I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs) have
the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the thinking and
whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

M-gineering said:

Gary Young said:

I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

Quoted message said:

http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

Quoted message said:

I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs) have
the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the thinking and
whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

I think for wheelchairs at least partially it is also for arm
clearance.

Joseph

email hidden said:

M-gineering said:

Gary Young said:

I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs) have
the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the thinking and
whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

Quoted message said:

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

I think for wheelchairs at least partially it is also for arm
clearance.

Joseph

The main thing for me is that if the trailer gets tilted somehow the
"downhill" wheel is closer to standing straight, not leaning over
trying to pull the trailer with it.

Gary, if you'd like, please send me photos of your trailer when it's
completed so I can add them to my gallery.

Cheers,
Mark

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 6:57 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 7:48 am, M-gineering <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gary Young wrote:
> I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs) have
> the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
> handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the thinking and
> whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

Quoted message said:

I think for wheelchairs at least partially it is also for arm
clearance.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

The main thing for me is that if the trailer gets tilted somehow the
"downhill" wheel is closer to standing straight, not leaning over
trying to pull the trailer with it.

Gary, if you'd like, please send me photos of your trailer when it's
completed so I can add them to my gallery.

Cheers,
Mark

Where can the gallery be viewed?

primary effect is centering forward movement

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

primary effect is centering forward movement

Would that not be due to toe in, not camber?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

Would that not be due to toe in, not camber?

Camber toe? Family newsgr----

Bill "eh, it's late" S.

what happens when one wheel on the solid axle has less grip than the
other side?

On Aug 22, 3:35 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gary, if you'd like, please send me photos of your trailer when it's
completed so I can add them to my gallery.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
Mark

Where can the gallery be viewed?

Now that's a good question! I'm working on that...

The trailer pics that have been sent in so far have been documented
randomly on my blog, so here are the first two:

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/03/fan-mail.html

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/05/fan-mail-2.html

I've since received two more, and just haven't yet put them up.

After a few years of receiving inquiries about the trailer's design I
revamped its webpage with more info. And while that change happened a
few years ago it's just this year that the emails started arriving
with photos and stories of completed projects or works-in-progress. I
hope to revamp the trailer's page to show them all, because since I
started blogging a a little over a year ago I've let my website go
static (though I have put the blog links on the trailer's page).

I'm still waiting to see if anyone builds their own cargo trike based
on mine! 😉

Mark

Quoted message said:

On Aug 22, 3:35 pm, [email hidden] wrote:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gary, if you'd like, please send me photos of your trailer when it's
completed so I can add them to my gallery.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
Mark

Quoted message said:

Where can the gallery be viewed?

Now that's a good question! I'm working on that...

The trailer pics that have been sent in so far have been documented
randomly on my blog, so here are the first two:

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/03/fan-mail.html

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/05/fan-mail-2.html

I've since received two more, and just haven't yet put them up.

After a few years of receiving inquiries about the trailer's design I
revamped its webpage with more info. And while that change happened a
few years ago it's just this year that the emails started arriving
with photos and stories of completed projects or works-in-progress. I
hope to revamp the trailer's page to show them all, because since I
started blogging a a little over a year ago I've let my website go
static (though I have put the blog links on the trailer's page).

I'm still waiting to see if anyone builds their own cargo trike based
on mine! 😉

Mark

ONE WHEEL set back from the load center?

quote='M-gineering'Gary Young said:

I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs) have
the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the thinking and
whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl[/QUOTE]

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the diameter, the milder the penalties.

meb said:

M-gineering said:

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

I thought that this was addressed by means of corresponding toe-out.

Chalo

own a vehicle? if the toe and or camber is adjusted to postive or
negative with tape and chalk-you'll get a feel for the effects!

if the wheels are leaned in at the top on a solid non-turning axle,
the leaning provides a simple solution to different travel lengths and
speed travel rates for the different radii of inside and outside
wheel.
the outside contact surface grips while the inside pivots on less
contact surface than the outside. Knot as effective as one wheel at
the rear or more complex and expensive suspensions.
make a model with a straw and two donuts.

meb said:

M-gineering said:

Gary Young said:

I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:

http://drumbent.com/trailer.html

I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs)

have

Quoted message said:

the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the

thinking and

Quoted message said:

whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

And this can be totally corrected for by adjusting toe.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

true but what's the golden hammer toe adjustment mechanism for home
brew bike trailers?
one wheel rearward seems easier, effective, and more reliable.

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

meb said:

M-gineering said:

Gary Young wrote:
> I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:
>
> http://drumbent.com/trailer.html
>
> I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs)
have
> the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
> handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the
thinking and
> whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

And this can be totally corrected for by adjusting toe.

Is there any formula (or rule of thumb) for determining the proper camber
and toe-out? I'll be using 700C front wheels set a little over two feet
apart.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Gary Young said:

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

meb said:

M-gineering Wrote:
> Gary Young wrote:
> > I'm building my own trailer, of a design similar to this one:
> >
> > http://drumbent.com/trailer.html
> >
> > I've noticed that some commercial trailers (and racing wheelchairs)
> have
> > the wheels canted toward each other at the top. It's said to improve
> > handling, but I don't understand why. Can someone explain the
> thinking and
> > whether it's a good idea for a cargo trailer?
>
> reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
> cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

And this can be totally corrected for by adjusting toe.

Is there any formula (or rule of thumb) for determining the proper camber
and toe-out? I'll be using 700C front wheels set a little over two feet
apart.

Not from me, not now. Non-holonomic constraints.
An intriguing project trying to calculate it.
Maybe ask the automobile engineers.
They've done everything.

--
Michael Press

quote='Chalo'meb said:

M-gineering said:

reduces width for equal track, reduces sideload on wheel during
cornering, increases tyre traction during cornering

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

I thought that this was addressed by means of corresponding toe-out.

Chalo[/QUOTE]

Partially. There still is an intrawheel rolling resistance caused by smallest diameter portion of the wheel contacting the road fighting the largest diameter portion of the wheel contacting the wheel attempting to turn different radii.

meb said:

Chalo said:

meb wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The tradeoff for the above is increased rolling resistance due the
camber steer of the right tire attempting to turn left and the left
tire attempting to turn right. The thinner the tire and larger the
diameter, the milder the penalties.

Quoted message said:

I thought that this was addressed by means of corresponding toe-out.

Partially. There still is an intrawheel rolling resistance caused by
smallest diameter portion of the wheel contacting the road fighting the
largest diameter portion of the wheel contacting the wheel attempting to
turn different radii.

How different could this be from the left edge of the contact patch of
a plumb tire fighting the right edge, and both of them fighting the
center of the tread? There must always be some scrub; it's intrinsic
to an elliptically convex tire tread conforming to a flat surface as
it rolls.

Chalo