cannot get rid off hop

Steven S said:

Good day all

I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
rim?

there's various ways to bash it to bend it back, but often, this causes
as much damage as it's designed to fix. either live with it or replace
the rim. sheldon is a good online resource.

Oh well thanks. Guess I'll live with it for now and replace it over the
winter.

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steven S said:

Good day all

I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken
a bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got
it true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke
is a drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round
despite being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to
repair the rim?

there's various ways to bash it to bend it back, but often, this causes as
much damage as it's designed to fix. either live with it or replace the
rim. sheldon is a good online resource.

On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:12:04 -0500, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam

[email protected] said:

Good day all

I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
rim?

Maybe, maybe not -- the rim is bent and needs to be forced into shape.
Adjusting spoke tension can't do that.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Steven S said:

Good day all

I have been truing the rear wheel on my commuter bicycle which has taken a
bit of a beating over the potholed streets of Chicago. Anyways I got it
true except for one spot. a 2mm hop centered over 1 spoke. The spoke is a
drive side and is as tight as I can get it [nipple starting to round despite
being well lubed]. It doesn't seem to help. Is there a way to repair the
rim?

How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other drive side spokes?
A 2 mm hop centered at one spokes is a very strange situation: usually a dip from striking a pot hole edge is the common situation.
You can try backing off the tension on all the spokes and then try straightening the area. As others have already stated, getting a replacement rim is the best solution. You likely can find one with the same ERD and thus be able to reuse the hub and spokes if you want to. Maybe the best idea is to look for a rear wheel that is wider and sturdier so that you will have a better chance of avoiding the problem in the future.
I have seen a lot of riders go with a wider and stronger rear wheel with a wider rear tire to improve the chances of riding through road hazards without damage. One of my recent favorites is Ultegra hub with Velocity Synergy OC rim and as wide a tire as the frame/brakes can safely clear.

start over.
seat nipples
mark the six spokes surrounding the bend
mark the six spokes on the rim's opposite side.
tighten the bend nipples one turn center spoke, 3/4's turn four
adjacent, half turn next two either side.
begin truing wheel.
tighten the opposite bend side spokes equally, then back off 50%.
reach approximate lateral true-assuming 3/4's nipple torque then go
back to radial true and go for a good radial true.
followig that method, a rim is self healing over time. several trues
will gradually bring the bend back in line.
if the bend does not retrue then a new rim may be in odor.
overall, substantial twisting or dropping impactis required to ruin a
quality (non french) rim

Quoted message said:

How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
drive side spokes?

I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.

I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.

On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam

[email protected] said:

Quoted message said:

How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
drive side spokes?

I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.

I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.

the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
airhoe and left right nipple sides.
get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
before trueing.

datakoll said:

On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam

[email protected] said:

Quoted message said:

How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
drive side spokes?

Quoted message said:

I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.

Quoted message said:

I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.

the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
airhoe and left right nipple sides.
get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
before trueing.

Use a driver from the back so you don't go nuts. Sheldon's tip of the
philips driver with two fins almost ground off is spot on. Whatever
spoke wrench ya want will work.

What kind of rims? Didn't they come with a deeper semi aero rim house
branded "Matrix"? An Alex R390 might be in the range, or if it's just
a box section rim, a Sun CR-18. Shouldn't take more than an hour to
zip up and two beers. If you want to be really fancy, you can lace the
non drive side with some fresh spokes radially with the heads out.
This will allow you to build with slightly more even tension, but not
as high tension as to threaten the hub flange.

landotter said:

datakoll said:

On Aug 6, 8:43 am, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam

Quoted message said:

[email protected] said:

> How much additional tension is on that spoke relative to the other
> drive side spokes?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd say a fair ammount. I rounded the first nipple trying to true it out
and had to replace it. The second one is starting to round.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll probably eventually rebuild it. It is a 126mm 7 speed hub so a
replacement wheel might be a problem and it's an old aluminum Trek 1400 so
the dropouts really can't be widened. Plus it's really just my commuter
bike I don't want to drop that much money on it.

Quoted message said:

the new rim is taped to the old rim and spokes swapped over. match the
airhoe and left right nipple sides.
get 16mm dt nipples and a Spokey wrench. lube spokes with linseed oil
before trueing.

Use a driver from the back so you don't go nuts. Sheldon's tip of the
philips driver with two fins almost ground off is spot on. Whatever
spoke wrench ya want will work.

What kind of rims? Didn't they come with a deeper semi aero rim house
branded "Matrix"? An Alex R390 might be in the range, or if it's just
a box section rim, a Sun CR-18. Shouldn't take more than an hour to
zip up and two beers.

The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.

Quoted message said:

The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.

Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.

Quoted message said:

The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.

Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.

Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.

Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.

Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.

Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!

Well no need for the black annodized rims. From what I've read annodizing
actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks. I think I'll replace
both rims as the front is has a chip in the sidewall.

Steven S??? said:

...From what I've read annodizing actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks....

In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
trunks the challenger jim beam!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

no, handedness is a no-show. the new rim is electrical taped to the
old rim and spokes swapped over. the handd nesss or off center
locations match up.
repairing the old rims gives spares.
do you read the instructions on the net? six spoke nipples loosened or
unloosend tend not to alter the lateral plane. So 6 goes down tight on
the bend side to start the true-giving the bend a head start.
and the opposite side gets a loose start aso as to tug the bend that
way: worry about takening out that high spot later as its not actually
bent.

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

no, handedness is a no-show. the new rim is electrical taped to the
old rim and spokes swapped over. the handd nesss or off center
locations match up.
repairing the old rims gives spares.
do you read the instructions on the net? six spoke nipples loosened or
unloosend tend not to alter the lateral plane. So 6 goes down tight on
the bend side to start the true-giving the bend a head start.
and the opposite side gets a loose start aso as to tug the bend that
way: worry about takening out that high spot later as its not actually
bent.

I am a bit confused. By handedness I mean if I put the two rims side by
side lined up at the valve hole and find that rim A starts with a left side
spoke hole and rim BE starts with a right hand spoke. From what I've read
I'd need to rotate rim B 1 spoke hole and live with the fact that the valve
won't be between parallel spokes... a problem for pumping?
You're proposing that I just detesion and start the old rim in such a
way that as I tension it up the outward rim bend will be pulled inwards by
spoke tension. I guess the downside is I would end up with uneven spoke
tension in the end? I suppose I could try it.

Quoted message said:

In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
trunks the challenger jim beam!

Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.

On Aug 6, 11:10 pm, "Steven S" <loach_lover[remove spam

[email protected] said:

Quoted message said:

In the blue trunks we have the champion Jobst Brandt, and in the red
trunks the challenger jim beam!

Ok I guess that point is debatable but it seems moot. Of all the new rims
I've looked at none seem to be annodized anymore.

A lot of rims certainly are painted (powdercoated) these days, likely
as it's simply cheaper than anodizing or polishing, but Velocity still
has quite an assortment of anodized colors. The problem was never with
the light colored anodizations, but with the dark and thick stuff.
I've had an eyelet pull out of the notorious MA3. Maybe it was the
drilling or the eyelets or small gnomes, but it seemed specific to
dark anodizing. I'll leave the science and bickering to the eggheads.

A pair of silver polish CR-18s is a class act, by the way, and for
sixty bucks plus your beverage of choice, a bargain of a bike refresh--
as long as you're fairly competent with a spoke wrench. Get the slack
out, then build the tension in layers, then the dish in layers of
turns... Works for me at least. ;-)

Don't forget to get some fresh spoke nipples if the old ones are
chewed up.

Steven S said:

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The bike has black annodized Wolber GTX rims. The erd I looked up was
> 613. It is a standard 32 3X with Shimano 105 1055 series hubs.
Hey those Suns cr-18 have an erd of 612 should be good replacement and
only around $30 a piece. The only thing I need to worry about is the
handedness of the spoke holes I guess.

Ja, though good luck finding a 622mm CR-18 in anodized black.
Otherwise easy to swap spokes one by one with a driver, take out slack
in new spokes, slap in a stand or rear triangle and true up!

Well no need for the black annodized rims. From what I've read annodizing
actually weakens the rims by creating microcracks. I think I'll replace
both rims as the front is has a chip in the sidewall.

you'll have a hard time finding a rim that's not anodized - regardless
of color.

and the microcracking thing is a somewhat embarrassing misdiagnosis by
someone working with insufficient information. rim cracking is the
result of the [natural] anisotropy of the rim extrusion and excess spoke
tension. and /always/ use the rim manufacturer spoke tension spec -
tension "as high as the rim can bear" theory is based on yet another
embarrassing error - that increasing tension increases strength. it
doesn't.

bottom line, disregard rim color - just buy what you want and use a $60
tensiometer to ensure correct spoke tension.