Cannondale Badboy

Simon Green said:

I've heard that Cannondale make very good steel bikes, but I know a dealer that
has a Cannondale Badboy for sale, and it seems this is an aluminium frame.

Which is a very odd thing to hear. Cannondale have always specialised in Al bikes
(though they are now branching out into carbon) and I've never heard of them making
a steel bike. Certainly not in the last 10 years.

Quoted message said:

Would this model be a good choice for someone who wants to ride on roads (with a
little good quality 'towpath' type use), but who has a back problem that
prevents the use of drop bars for more than 5 minutes at a time?

The BadBoy is a nice bike and would be good for what you want IMO. Make sure you
explain your back problems to the shops so that they can put the bars nice
and high.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Arthur Clune said:

Simon Green said:

I've heard that Cannondale make very good steel bikes, but I know a dealer that
has a Cannondale Badboy for sale, and it seems this is an aluminium frame.

Which is a very odd thing to hear. Cannondale have always specialised in Al bikes
(though they are now branching out into carbon) and I've never heard of them making
a steel bike. Certainly not in the last 10 years.

Quoted message said:

Would this model be a good choice for someone who wants to ride on roads (with a
little good quality 'towpath' type use), but who has a back problem that
prevents the use of drop bars for more than 5 minutes at a time?

The BadBoy is a nice bike and would be good for what you want IMO. Make sure you
explain your back problems to the shops so that they can put the bars nice
and high.

Thanks for the advice.

I must have misunderstood about the steel frame thing.

Does the Cannondale have a good range of adjustment on the handlebars?

Simon Green said:

Does the Cannondale have a good range of adjustment on the handlebars?

Not once the fork is cut down.

Make sure the bike shop leaves the steerer tube cut long (tell them those exact
works) with lots of space underneath and then you'll have plenty of scope for
adjustment. Then when you have it in the right place, you can cut the tube.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Arthur Clune said:

Simon Green said:

Does the Cannondale have a good range of adjustment on the handlebars?

Not once the fork is cut down.

Make sure the bike shop leaves the steerer tube cut long (tell them
those exact
works) with lots of space underneath

ITYM "spacers underneath" ;-)

--
jc

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Green

(') said:

Newbie (fairly cluelss) question.

I've heard that Cannondale make very good steel bikes,

Cannondale don't make steel bikes and never have made steel bikes.
They've always been aluminium specialists. These days they also make
some carbon fibre bikes but they are the makers of /the/ best aluminium
bikes in the world. Mine is my favourite bike - and I've got some other
exotic ones.

Quoted message said:

but I know a
dealer that has a Cannondale Badboy for sale, and it seems this is an
aluminium frame.

Would this model be a good choice for someone who wants to ride on
roads (with a little good quality 'towpath' type use), but who has a
back problem that prevents the use of drop bars for more than 5
minutes at a time?

Yes, it's a good fast urban bike; a little bit style junkie but not
excessively so.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Green

(') said:

On 28 Jun 2005 10:46:21 GMT, Arthur Clune <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The BadBoy is a nice bike and would be good for what you want IMO.
Make sure you explain your back problems to the shops so that they can
put the bars nice and high.

Thanks for the advice.

I must have misunderstood about the steel frame thing.

Does the Cannondale have a good range of adjustment on the handlebars?

Cannondale use 1.5" steerer tubes on anything which may have a fatty
fork (and that includes the Bad Boy). This is bigger than anyone else
in the industry. Consequently you're pretty much stuck with Cannondale
stems. Fortunately there's a good range. Unfortunately they're at
Cannondale prices. They come up on ebay occasionally.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

Jeremy Collins said:

Quoted message said:

works) with lots of space underneath

ITYM "spacers underneath" ;-)

Grin. Yes, that would be better...

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Simon Brooke said:

Cannondale use 1.5" steerer tubes on anything which may have a fatty
fork (and that includes the Bad Boy). This is bigger than anyone else
in the industry. Consequently you're pretty much stuck with Cannondale
stems. Fortunately there's a good range. Unfortunately they're at
Cannondale prices. They come up on ebay occasionally.

Could you give me a very rough idea of the price?

Also, is this likely to be a problem with getting the bike serviced? i.e. all
the Cannondale parts being more expensive than standard.

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Green

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

Cannondale use 1.5" steerer tubes on anything which may have a fatty
fork (and that includes the Bad Boy). This is bigger than anyone else
in the industry. Consequently you're pretty much stuck with Cannondale
stems. Fortunately there's a good range. Unfortunately they're at
Cannondale prices. They come up on ebay occasionally.

Could you give me a very rough idea of the price?

Also, is this likely to be a problem with getting the bike serviced?
i.e. all the Cannondale parts being more expensive than standard.

Only the frame, forks and headset - and consequently the stem - are
special. The rest is fairly standard kit. If your Bad Boy has a fatty
fork it probably is worth getting it serviced occasionally by a
Cannondale dealer but if it has a rigid fork I wouldn't bother - any
good LBS will do. I don't know what the stems cost new but they tend to
go for about a tenner on ebay. The exact one I wanted came up after I'd
been watching for it on ebay for about a month, so it isn't impossible.
See

<URL:http://search.ebay.co.uk/cannondale-coda-stem>

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; killing [afghan|iraqi] civilians is not 'justice'

Simon Brooke said:

<URL:http://search.ebay.co.uk/cannondale-coda-stem>

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up, but looking
at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will cause the handlebar to be
raised.

It looks as if it attaches to something bar or tube like, coming out of the top
of the bike, and to the handlebars.

Surely, what I want is something to replace the bar/tube that comes out of the
top of the bike that is longer than standard? (or some sort of extender)?

I'm getting REALLY confused about this whole 'fit' thing. As far as I can see,
all you can do is choose from frame sizes seperated by a couple of inches a go,
and raise or lower the saddle, and yet I've seen things refering to wholde sets
of measurements being taken, and computer programs being used to fit someone for
a bike.

How much can you do when there is only one incremental (frame size) and one
continuous (saddle height) adjustment?

[email hidden] (Simon Green) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It looks as if it attaches to something bar or tube like, coming out
of the top of the bike, and to the handlebars.

Yep, that bit (the stem) extends how far you have to reach for the bar.

Quoted message said:

Surely, what I want is something to replace the bar/tube that comes
out of the top of the bike that is longer than standard? (or some sort
of extender)?

The tube is part of the fork, replacing it would mean getting a fork with
a longer tube attached.

Quoted message said:

I'm getting REALLY confused about this whole 'fit' thing. As far as I
can see, all you can do is choose from frame sizes seperated by a
couple of inches a go, and raise or lower the saddle, and yet I've
seen things refering to wholde sets of measurements being taken, and
computer programs being used to fit someone for a bike.

How much can you do when there is only one incremental (frame size)
and one continuous (saddle height) adjustment?

Ah, now you're getting into the world of custom built frames rather than
stock frames. On stock frames the options are much more restricted but
most (?) people find they can get a reasonable fit adjusting what they
can, i.e. saddle height/angle/forward-back, stem length/angle, steerer
tube length, frame size (including top tube length) & crank length.

Most of these changes would require swapping components or frames. People
here seem to have jumped on you needing higher handle bars. I too have
had back pain from drop bars but have absolutely no problem on my
mountain bike even though the saddle is considerably higher than the bars
(it's also a Cannondale). Remember that drop bars put you in a much lower
position than flat bars.

The only way to check is to get your bum on the bike and take it for a
ride. If the shop won't let you do that, take your business somewhere
else.

Graeme

Simon Green said:

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up, but looking
at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will cause the handlebar to be
raised.

It can *only* be raised until the steerer tube in the fork is cut down. After that's
been done, you have very limited adjustment.

http://www.girlbike.com/gbimages/LHTcloseup.jpg

might give you some idea. Look at all the spacers under the stem.

The idea would be to leave the steerer tube very long, put some spacers both above
and below the stem and then adjust to fit.

Once you are happy with the length, cut the tube and remove the steerers above.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Simon Green said:

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up,
but looking at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will
cause the handlebar to be raised.

It looks as if it attaches to something bar or tube like, coming out
of the top of the bike, and to the handlebars.

It clamps to the steerer tube - the vertical tube coming up from the top of
the forks - and holds the handlebars at the other end. As long as the
steerer tube is long enough, you can vary the height by putting spacers
underneath it (hence Simon Brooke's advice re not cutting the steerer down
until you're happy with the height). The stem may also be available in
different lengths and angles though given the non-standard nature of the
Cannondale beastie, this may not be the case.

HTH

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
There's a village in Texas that's missing its idiot.

Simon Green said:

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up, but
looking
at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will cause the
handlebar to be
raised.

That one won't as it has 0° of rise. If you look at some of the stems
here:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=CategoryProducts.aspx&Cat=cycle&w=0&CategoryName=Stems

you'll see that you can get them to slope up (or down) at lots of
different angles, effectively raising or lowering the bars. You can
also change the reach (e.g a steeper raise with a shorter stem will
give you a more upright position).

I agree it can be confusing; your best bet is to find a LBS that
will let you try different stems in the shop, even if it costs a
couple if extra quid.

--
jc

Dave Larrington said:

It clamps to the steerer tube - the vertical tube coming up from the top of
the forks - and holds the handlebars at the other end. As long as the
steerer tube is long enough, you can vary the height by putting spacers
underneath it (hence Simon Brooke's advice re not cutting the steerer down
until you're happy with the height). The stem may also be available in
different lengths and angles though given the non-standard nature of the
Cannondale beastie, this may not be the case.

Unfortunately, the particular model I know of is second hand.

From what you say, Cannondales are next to useless econdhand because unless you
happen to need the exact same handlebar setting as the last owner, you're stuck.

Perhaps I should consider a bike with a more sensible system, or at least one
that will take standard parts.

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Green

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

<URL:http://search.ebay.co.uk/cannondale-coda-stem>

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up, but
looking at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will cause
the handlebar to be raised.

It won't in itself. But if it has a steeper angle than the one it
replaces then it will. These things come in different lengths and
different angles, and it's by fitting one of the appropriate length and
angle for you that you adjust handlebar reach and height. The downside
of this system is that each experimental change means buying a new
stem, so you really need good sizing advice so that you can get it
right first time - otherwise things get expensive.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html>

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune

(') said:

Simon Green said:

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up,
but looking at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will
cause the handlebar to be raised.

It can *only* be raised until the steerer tube in the fork is cut
down. After that's been done, you have very limited adjustment.

http://www.girlbike.com/gbimages/LHTcloseup.jpg

might give you some idea. Look at all the spacers under the stem.

The idea would be to leave the steerer tube very long, put some
spacers both above and below the stem and then adjust to fit.

Once you are happy with the length, cut the tube and remove the
steerers above.

Not on a Cannondale with a 40mm steerer, unfortunately. The forks are
pre-cut to length, and the length they are cut to does not allow for
spacers (nor are, as far as I know, spacers available for a 40mm
steerer). Your only adjustment is by replacing the stem.

Remember that this steerer design is the way it is to accommodate Fatty
and Lefty forks, neither of which have simple steerer tubes that can be
cut down - that's very expensive precision equipment in there and you
don't want to be cutting it with a hacksaw!

I appreciate that Bad Boys come by default with a rigid fork, but it's a
rigid fork sitting in a steerer that's really designed for something
else.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Generally Not Used
;; Except by Middle Aged Computer Scientists

in message <op.ss4jnebx4al0tm@office>, Jeremy Collins

(') said:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:16:29 +0100, Simon Green <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Please forgive my complete cluelessness about this type of set up,
but looking
at that picture, I cant see how a stem like that will cause the
handlebar to be
raised.

That one won't as it has 0° of rise. If you look at some of the stems
here:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=CategoryProducts.aspx&Cat=cycle&w=0&CategoryName=Stems

Quoted message said:

you'll see that you can get them to slope up (or down) at lots of
different angles, effectively raising or lowering the bars. You can
also change the reach (e.g a steeper raise with a shorter stem will
give you a more upright position).

And warning: /all/ of those are for 25.4mm or 28.6mm steerer tubes,
which are the standard sizes. The Bad Boy uses a 40mm steerer tube,
which is pretty much a Cannondale-only size (some extreme downhill
bikes from other makers also use this size). Consequently, only
Cannondale stems and a few others will fit.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When all else fails, read the distractions.

Simon Green said:

From what you say, Cannondales are next to useless econdhand
because unless you happen to need the exact same handlebar
setting as the last owner, you're stuck.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I should consider a bike with a more sensible system,
or at least one that will take standard parts.

There's more than one model of the Cannondale Bad Boy.

The plain Bad Boy uses a completely standard 1 1/8" steerer, stem, and
spacers. The Bad Boy *Ultra* uses Cannondale's proprietary Headshok
suspension fork. In the latter case, the length of the steerer tube is
fixed, and you need to use a suitable Headshok-compatible stem (from
Cannondale (Coda), Profile, Syntace, Roox, Syncros and others). You can see
the different models on the Cannondale website:

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/ce/cats/ST.html

Since the bike you're looking at is used, the length of the steerer tube is
fixed in either case. The only method of raising the handlebar position is
to buy a stem (or a handlebar, or both) with more rise.

James Thomson