Cancer links

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen had

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is
commonly done by laetrile doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among his
Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this
series of experiments, and the combination of proteolytic enzymes and
laetrile only worked when injected directly into small mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer by
Laetrile produced only one or two dubious examples at a time when it had
been used by thousands of patients, and the anecdotal hype that always
follows any new "alternative" treatment of cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative
cancer clinics that still use it that it does as not to work when used
alone. When used in the typical cocktail of multiple "alternative"
treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence that
any of them work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to tell
if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

http://www.anticancerinfo.co.uk/b17-food.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/cancer/cancer_options.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2465/6_30/65653634/p1/article.jhtml

Even they admit it doesn't work

http://www.unlimited.co.nz/unlimited.nsf/0/9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757?OpenDocument&More=Biotech+Feature

Quoted message said:

http://www.medicaltruth.com/cancer/home.htm

Bew

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen

had

Quoted message said:

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is
commonly done by laetrile doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among

his

Quoted message said:

Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this
series of experiments, and the combination of proteolytic enzymes and
laetrile only worked when injected directly into small mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer by
Laetrile produced only one or two dubious examples at a time when it had
been used by thousands of patients, and the anecdotal hype that always
follows any new "alternative" treatment of cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative
cancer clinics that still use it that it does as not to work when used
alone. When used in the typical cocktail of multiple "alternative"
treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence that
any of them work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to

tell

Quoted message said:

if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

Yeah ? , well from a previous post .

The difference between conventional and alternative has really been shown to
me yet once again . Two of my friends were diagnosed with cancer several
months ago ( about 8 months ) , one with prostate cancer , the other with
prostate cancer plus melanoma plus bowel cancer , he was in a bad way .
Friend 2 had already had a previous operation on his bowel , but was told
the cancer had returned .

Friend one was very afraid to try anything outside the conventional
treatments as he was told that if he did not follow their procedures his
chances of survival were slim , if he did follow their procedures his
chances were above 80% . Of course he was very frightened and so would not
listen to anything other than what his oncologists said . People are
vulnerable when frightened and make no mistake , conventional medicine takes
great advantage of that fact , just as the quacks do . I don't blame him for
being scared , and of course we all have the right of choice , he exercised
his right , and for him it was the right decision , he was happy with his
decision .

Last week he was buried and I attended his funeral .

My second friend astounded and infuriated his oncologist when he flatly
refused any further treatment from them , he was told in no uncertain terms
what a fool he was and how he was basically signing his own death
certificate , the sort of words that strike fear into any person . I think
sometimes we can too easily be dismissive of the bravery it takes to face
the full force of the system , this huge machine , with all its
intimidating power and it's cold production line mentality , and tell them ,
thanks but no thanks , especially when it is a life and death situation ,
and the life is yours .

He took a detox course of tablets . He then embarked upon a regime of
organic apricot kernels in amounts recommended by freely available
information on the web , he added pineapple to help , plus he obtained and
used in copious amounts the best range of natural wellbeing and antioxidant
products he could find . Of course he cut out all the poisons like coffee ,
alcohol , red meat and drank only pure water . The results do date have been
great , his blood results are now returning levels so low that the
oncologist cannot accept they are real . He feels great , he is looking
forward with a positive attitude and is leading a normal life .

Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle of both schools of thought ,
certainly it seems that poisoning a person with chemo and deadly drugs is
meeting with dismal failure worldwide and yet they persist with this . Most
people would protest if they wanted to build a nuclear power station next
door , but accept the stuff being pumped into their body . I think maybe ,
for many the pocket comes before the patient , it certainly does with the
drug companies , they don't make money from well people . Sadly many doctors
just follow blindly along ,they are not bad people , they just cannot open
their minds and see the big picture .

Bew

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

http://www.anticancerinfo.co.uk/b17-food.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/cancer/cancer_options.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2465/6_30/65653634/p1/article.jhtml

Even they admit it doesn't work

http://www.unlimited.co.nz/unlimited.nsf/0/9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757?OpenDocument&More=Biotech+Feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.medicaltruth.com/cancer/home.htm

Bew

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From one site.

Quoted message said:

One was Dr Elizabeth Stockert and another was Dr Lloyd Schloen. Schloen

had

Quoted message said:

gone so far as to add >proteolytic enzymes to the injections - as is
commonly done by laetrile doctors - and reported a 100% cure >rate among

his

Quoted message said:

Swiss albino mice.5

Omitted was the finding that Laetrile used alone had no effect in this
series of experiments, and the combination of proteolytic enzymes and
laetrile only worked when injected directly into small mouse tumours.

Omitted is the fact that a nationwide search for anyone cured of cancer

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Laetrile produced only one or two dubious examples at a time when it had
been used by thousands of patients, and the anecdotal hype that always
follows any new "alternative" treatment of cancer was at its highest..

Laetrile is a useless treatment and it is admitted by most alternative
cancer clinics that still use it that it does as not to work when used
alone. When used in the typical cocktail of multiple "alternative"
treatments always advised these days (an admission that the evidence

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any of them work as claimed is feeble) it is impossible for anyone to

tell

Quoted message said:

if any individual agent works.

Peter Moran

Yeah ? , well from a previous post .

The difference between conventional and alternative has really been shown

to

Quoted message said:

me yet once again . Two of my friends were diagnosed with cancer several
months ago ( about 8 months ) , one with prostate cancer , the other

with

Quoted message said:

prostate cancer plus melanoma plus bowel cancer , he was in a bad way .
Friend 2 had already had a previous operation on his bowel , but was told
the cancer had returned .

Friend one was very afraid to try anything outside the conventional
treatments as he was told that if he did not follow their procedures his
chances of survival were slim , if he did follow their procedures his
chances were above 80% . Of course he was very frightened and so would

not

Quoted message said:

listen to anything other than what his oncologists said . People are
vulnerable when frightened and make no mistake , conventional medicine

takes

Quoted message said:

great advantage of that fact , just as the quacks do . I don't blame him

for

Quoted message said:

being scared , and of course we all have the right of choice , he

exercised

Quoted message said:

his right , and for him it was the right decision , he was happy with his
decision .

Last week he was buried and I attended his funeral .

If he died within eight months of the diagnosis of prostate cancer he had a
very advanced anaplastic and hormonally resistant example of prostate cancer
when diagnosed, and it seems unlikely that he would have been offered 80%
success. Forgive me, but I would like to have the oncologist's version of
this story.

Quoted message said:

My second friend astounded and infuriated his oncologist when he flatly
refused any further treatment from them , he was told in no uncertain

terms

Quoted message said:

what a fool he was and how he was basically signing his own death
certificate , the sort of words that strike fear into any person .

This is the one who "was told his cancer had returned". On such a third
hand account you are prepared to believe that apricot kernels cured him
f ----- what? Prostate cancer mostly has a slow and indolent course
and we are given no details as to its present status, if it was ever
securely diagnosed in the first place. Most melanomas are cured by
excission biopsy and even advanced melanomas may not show metastases in
eight months or much longer. What stage of bowel cancer did he have and
what evidence was there that it had returned? Bowel cancer in stages up to
early C has a good prognosis with surgery. It is a poor example to use to
show the uselessness of conventional treatments.

Any doctor knows how second and third hand accounts of such stuff are
useless. I have had patients tell me they have cancer when they are not.
I have had patients convinced they are dying of cancer when they are not.
This stuff is only conving to those who don't know better.

Quoted message said:

I think
sometimes we can too easily be dismissive of the bravery it takes to face
the full force of the system , this huge machine , with all its
intimidating power and it's cold production line mentality , and tell them

,

Quoted message said:

thanks but no thanks , especially when it is a life and death situation ,
and the life is yours .

He took a detox course of tablets . He then embarked upon a regime of
organic apricot kernels in amounts recommended by freely available
information on the web , he added pineapple to help , plus he obtained and
used in copious amounts the best range of natural wellbeing and

antioxidant

Quoted message said:

products he could find . Of course he cut out all the poisons like coffee

,

Quoted message said:

alcohol , red meat and drank only pure water . The results do date have

been

Quoted message said:

great , his blood results are now returning levels so low that the
oncologist cannot accept they are real . He feels great , he is looking
forward with a positive attitude and is leading a normal life .

Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle of both schools of thought ,
certainly it seems that poisoning a person with chemo and deadly drugs is
meeting with dismal failure worldwide and yet they persist with this .

What do you know about chemotherapy? Honestly? All you know is what is
you have read on alternative sites that have very good reasons for painting
the conventional treatment of cancer in the worst possible light. Then
people are less inclined to ask penetrating questions about what
"alternaitve" methods actually acheive. You won't be told there about the
high cure rates of some kinds of cancer with chemotherapy alone, the
remarkable remissions and palliation that can be obtained with other types
of cancer, and the higher cure rates that can be acheived when chemotherapy
is combined with other forms of primary treatment as an adjuvant. You also
will not find medicine hiding where its results are poor; do a Medline
search and it is all there-- but even with bad cancers like NSCLC useful
palliation is possible with modern chemotherapy.

Quoted message said:

Most
people would protest if they wanted to build a nuclear power station next
door , but accept the stuff being pumped into their body . I think maybe ,
for many the pocket comes before the patient , it certainly does with the
drug companies , they don't make money from well people . Sadly many

doctors

Quoted message said:

just follow blindly along ,they are not bad people , they just cannot open
their minds and see the big picture .

The big picture that you think is there is based upon such slender anecdotal
evidence as you have quoted above and a one-sided selection of reading
matter. When you delve further into the results of those supposedly
offering alternative cancer treatments suddenly there is no documentation
to support the claims. The Gerson clinic has treated thousands of cancer
patients, has innumerable testimonial reports of cancer cures on its site,
but when it was asked to produce a dozen well-documented "best cases" with
the promise that a large clinical trial would ensue, it was unable to do so.

It is time vocal supporters of AM like yourself realised where the problem,
if there is a problem, truly lies, and that is that testimonial and
anecdote not only aren't throwing up spectacularly successful cancer
treatments, they are more certainly not going to convince those with the
money to investigate treatments further, such as the NCCAM.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Bew

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some info on the big C ,

http://www.anticancerinfo.co.uk/b17-food.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/cancer/cancer_options.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2465/6_30/65653634/p1/article.jhtml

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even they admit it doesn't work

http://www.unlimited.co.nz/unlimited.nsf/0/9E2A527ED30396D2CC256CD3007F6757?OpenDocument&More=Biotech+Feature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.medicaltruth.com/cancer/home.htm

Bew

Bew, for your further edification, I include a message I just sent to
another list. I don't have permission to identify the initial poster.

(Anon----)

Quoted message said:

I have 15 years experience working with cancer patients and I have not met
one yet who was cured with alternative medicine but all were much poorer

and

Quoted message said:

most bitter for the experience.

My experience over double that time (as a surgeon) is similar. I recently
spoke to the local oncologist who for many years has been documenting his
patient's use of alternatives, and his experience is the same.

Yet I don't blame desperate patients for trying literally anything that
might help.

Those I do despise are those who are totally ignorant about the realities
of cancer and its treatment, but who still like to make sure that cancer
quacks
get all the promotion they need, even for ridiculous or completely disproved
treatments.

I can (mostly) understand the quacks themselves. I know how they can be
misled by the quirks of medical practice. I can even comprehend the
vicious exploitation of cancer patients by those who are frankly fraudulent.
What I can't understand is those who staunchly support them with no direct
or certain knowledge where the truth lies or even the wherewithal to know
the truth if they found it.

Many clearly do it as part of the ancient sport of doctor-bashing, but
the interests of cancer patients are far too serious for such
insincerities.

Peter Moran

Exactly why it is pointless trying to even discuss the issues , I can just
as easily tell you that the story below is a load of [censored] and equally you
can't prove me wrong . Everyone has different experiences and different
beliefs , I tell you about a person who used apricot kernels to cure cancer
, you tell me that is [censored] . You tell me about some dude who has supposedly
spent 15 years working with cancer patients who hasn't seen any alternative
methods work , I say to you that may easily be so because he probably has
never looked , so I say his viewpoint is [censored].
What is the point of the discussion ? , just to go around in circles ?
You won't convince me that what I have experienced and seen isn't true and I
will never convince you to change your point of view .

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew, for your further edification, I include a message I just sent to
another list. I don't have permission to identify the initial poster.

(Anon----)

Quoted message said:

I have 15 years experience working with cancer patients and I have not

met

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one yet who was cured with alternative medicine but all were much poorer

and

Quoted message said:

most bitter for the experience.

My experience over double that time (as a surgeon) is similar. I

recently

Quoted message said:

spoke to the local oncologist who for many years has been documenting his
patient's use of alternatives, and his experience is the same.

Yet I don't blame desperate patients for trying literally anything that
might help.

Those I do despise are those who are totally ignorant about the

realities

Quoted message said:

of cancer and its treatment, but who still like to make sure that cancer
quacks
get all the promotion they need, even for ridiculous or completely

disproved

Quoted message said:

treatments.

I can (mostly) understand the quacks themselves. I know how they can be
misled by the quirks of medical practice. I can even comprehend the
vicious exploitation of cancer patients by those who are frankly

fraudulent.

Quoted message said:

What I can't understand is those who staunchly support them with no

direct

Quoted message said:

or certain knowledge where the truth lies or even the wherewithal to know
the truth if they found it.

Many clearly do it as part of the ancient sport of doctor-bashing, but
the interests of cancer patients are far too serious for such
insincerities.

Peter Moran

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Exactly why it is pointless trying to even discuss the issues , I can just
as easily tell you that the story below is a load of [censored] and equally you
can't prove me wrong . Everyone has different experiences and different
beliefs , I tell you about a person who used apricot kernels to cure

cancer

Quoted message said:

, you tell me that is [censored] . You tell me about some dude who has

supposedly

Quoted message said:

spent 15 years working with cancer patients who hasn't seen any

alternative

Quoted message said:

methods work , I say to you that may easily be so because he probably has
never looked , so I say his viewpoint is [censored].
What is the point of the discussion ? , just to go around in circles ?
You won't convince me that what I have experienced and seen isn't true and

I

Quoted message said:

will never convince you to change your point of view .

And Bevie-poo whines that advocates for Realmedicine have a closed mind.
However, I have yet to see one alternative treatment that has been proven to
work that was rejected by RealMedicine.