Can you maybe get the bars a little lower?

[Bob Schwartz]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 9, 3:07 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On 9 Apr 2007 11:33:29 -0700, "[email protected]"
>>
>>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07
>> contradiction.
>>
>>> While we were pissing and moaning about the bar height,
>>> Dan Connelly pointed out on r.b.tech that Ballan's bike
>>> has good old 36 spoke wheels for the Ronde.
>> Read the article -- he used 36-spoke wheels for training. In racing,
>> it's faster material.
>
> You expect me to read??!! I was just looking at
> the pretty pictures. Then I got distracted by
> something shiny.
>
> Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
> masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
> rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
> on a Sunday ride.

That is entirely appropriate. The average US masters
fattie rides with national and world champions all
the time. I'll bet Ballan hardly ever does.

Bob Schwartz

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 10, 2:28 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 9, 3:07 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 9 Apr 2007 11:33:29 -0700, "[email protected]"
>
> > >> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07
> > contradiction.
>
> > >While we were pissing and moaning about the bar height,
> > >Dan Connelly pointed out on r.b.tech that Ballan's bike
> > >has good old 36 spoke wheels for the Ronde.
>
> > Read the article -- he used 36-spoke wheels for training. In racing,
> > it's faster material.
>
> You expect me to read??!! I was just looking at
> the pretty pictures. Then I got distracted by
> something shiny.
>
> Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
> masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
> rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
> on a Sunday ride.
>
> Ben

This is by no means limited to US fm's. Globalization and all.

Joseph

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On 9 Apr 2007 23:53:43 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 10, 2:28 am, "[email protected]" wrote:
>> Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
>> masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
>> rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
>> on a Sunday ride.
>
> This is by no means limited to US fm's. Globalization and all.

When I rode with Boogerd, I told him off for the wobble in his wheel
and the frame pump not fitting. If we ever meet again, I will tell him
to finally, after 10 years of pro helmet rule, get a fitting helmet.

--
E. Dronkert

 

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Apr 9, 5:28 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> You expect me to read??!! I was just looking at
> the pretty pictures. Then I got distracted by
> something shiny.
>
> Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
> masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
> rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
> on a Sunday ride.




Dumbass -


If you're doing 400 miles/week, the roads aren't so great and you
don't like stuff breaking, those 36 spoke wheels are mighty nice. So
is the thick rubber. Plus, his racing bike and training bike are
almost surely not the same bike.

The Masters Fattie wheels are very good for guys who "race" their
Fellow Fat Buddies on Sunday. Good for the ego, good for the soul.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

 

[Donald Munro]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> When I rode with Boogerd, I told him off for the wobble in his wheel
> and the frame pump not fitting. If we ever meet again, I will tell him
> to finally, after 10 years of pro helmet rule, get a fitting helmet.

You mean you're not going to tell him to get his sprint up to your
standard.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 8 Apr 2007 17:24:17 -0700, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?
>
> For a few years.
>
> But your point is right -- Lance was most competitive in the hillier
> classics -- Fleche Wallone (won it), Liege-Bastogne-Liege (two top
> fives I think) and Amstel Gold (which is only a little hiller than
> Flanders).

Actually, bj nailed it. Lance used a very aero position on his TT bike and
that was checked endlessly with wind tunnel research. In the important Tour
stages he was climbing and a good climbing position is a lot more upright.
Then on the fast flat stages he was protected from the wind by his team.

Ballan doesn't have those advantages but nevertheless that sort of seat/bar
drop has got to be counterproductive unless he has abnormally long arms.

 

[Tom Kunich]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> And skinny flat chested (broad?) tall guys who are flexible can have
> huge differences in saddle to bar height. Thigh to chest/abdomen
> contact is big factor in limiting the amount of drop possible. His
> skinny legs and not very accute knee angle (due to leg length and
> crank length) make this possible. Look at a guy like Johan Van
> Summeren compared to somebody like Salvatore Commesso and you can see
> this in the extreme.

That doesn't make that superflat position aero. If you look at the TT
positions of most of the riders they aren't flat at all but are somewhat
upright.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Caroline" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f1pSh.11534$op4.7651@trnddc08...
>
> No advances in the design of the human body. Ballan's bike looks "normal"
> to me for a guy who is around 6'4", if I'm translating his height in
> meters to feet and inhces accurately. Compound that by the fact that all
> 6'4" human frames are not created equal. Some guys have very very long
> legs. Others have more traditional trunk-to-leg height distribution. But
> in ALL cases, with guys that tall, if they're going to be competitive at
> the most elite levels, they have to do everything in their power to push
> their bodies into the most aerodynamic race position possible.

I keep hearing about guys 6'4" that have long legs but in my experience most
have slightly shorter than normal legs.

The real limitation on tall riders is the power to weight ratio. Getting
bigger doesn't make muscle fibers any stronger.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Steve Freides" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Me, I do fine riding in that kind of position. It's getting up from the
> sofa the next day that's the killer.

When you're racing and the pack really picks up speed you'll find yourself
trying to get into your most efficient position. This PROBABLY won't be the
lowest and flatest back position.

 

[RonSonic]

On 9 Apr 2007 14:10:21 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Apr 9, 2:24 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Apr 8, 4:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > > I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
>> > > the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
>> > > that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
>> > > position effectively.
>>
>> > Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
>> > seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
>> > position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
>> > used a lot more drop then.
>>
>> This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?
>>
>> Seriously, late-period LANCE had to ride fast in TTs
>> (different position) and uphill (low position less
>> important). Also, Ballan is about 6'3". Tall people
>> often have a larger bar to saddle drop, even tall
>> masters fatties.
>
>And skinny flat chested (broad?) tall guys who are flexible can have
>huge differences in saddle to bar height. Thigh to chest/abdomen
>contact is big factor in limiting the amount of drop possible. His
>skinny legs and not very accute knee angle (due to leg length and
>crank length) make this possible. Look at a guy like Johan Van
>Summeren compared to somebody like Salvatore Commesso and you can see
>this in the extreme.

Tall guys tend to have longer arms relative to their height also. I'm also 6'2
have a 6'6 wingspan and my bars are amazingly low for a fat, out of shape 50
year old. Look at my bike without me on it and they look like a serious racer's
setup. Look at the bike with me on it and you say, "dang, that fat guy's got
long arms."

Ron

Ron

Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 12, 9:55 am, RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2007 14:10:21 -0700, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Apr 9, 2:24 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >> On Apr 8, 4:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > > I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
> >> > > the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
> >> > > that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
> >> > > position effectively.
>
> >> > Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
> >> > seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
> >> > position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
> >> > used a lot more drop then.
>
> >> This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?
>
> >> Seriously, late-period LANCE had to ride fast in TTs
> >> (different position) and uphill (low position less
> >> important). Also, Ballan is about 6'3". Tall people
> >> often have a larger bar to saddle drop, even tall
> >> masters fatties.
>
> >And skinny flat chested (broad?) tall guys who are flexible can have
> >huge differences in saddle to bar height. Thigh to chest/abdomen
> >contact is big factor in limiting the amount of drop possible. His
> >skinny legs and not very accute knee angle (due to leg length and
> >crank length) make this possible. Look at a guy like Johan Van
> >Summeren compared to somebody like Salvatore Commesso and you can see
> >this in the extreme.
>
> Tall guys tend to have longer arms relative to their height also. I'm also 6'2
> have a 6'6 wingspan and my bars are amazingly low for a fat, out of shape 50
> year old. Look at my bike without me on it and they look like a serious racer's
> setup. Look at the bike with me on it and you say, "dang, that fat guy's got
> long arms."

dumbass,

you're not the only knuckle-dragger on rbr.

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Apr 12, 7:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 12, 9:55 am, RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9 Apr 2007 14:10:21 -0700, "[email protected]"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >On Apr 9, 2:24 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > >wrote:
> > >> On Apr 8, 4:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> > > I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
> > >> > > the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
> > >> > > that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
> > >> > > position effectively.
>
> > >> > Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
> > >> > seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
> > >> > position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
> > >> > used a lot more drop then.
>
> > >> This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?
>
> > >> Seriously, late-period LANCE had to ride fast in TTs
> > >> (different position) and uphill (low position less
> > >> important). Also, Ballan is about 6'3". Tall people
> > >> often have a larger bar to saddle drop, even tall
> > >> masters fatties.
>
> > >And skinny flat chested (broad?) tall guys who are flexible can have
> > >huge differences in saddle to bar height. Thigh to chest/abdomen
> > >contact is big factor in limiting the amount of drop possible. His
> > >skinny legs and not very accute knee angle (due to leg length and
> > >crank length) make this possible. Look at a guy like Johan Van
> > >Summeren compared to somebody like Salvatore Commesso and you can see
> > >this in the extreme.
>
> > Tall guys tend to have longer arms relative to their height also. I'm also 6'2
> > have a 6'6 wingspan and my bars are amazingly low for a fat, out of shape 50
> > year old. Look at my bike without me on it and they look like a serious racer's
> > setup. Look at the bike with me on it and you say, "dang, that fat guy's got
> > long arms."
>
> dumbass,
>
> you're not the only knuckle-dragger on rbr.- Hide quoted text -

I was the first in my family to walk upright.

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Apr 10, 12:31 am, "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 9, 5:28 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > You expect me to read??!! I was just looking at
> > the pretty pictures. Then I got distracted by
> > something shiny.
>
> > Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
> > masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
> > rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
> > on a Sunday ride.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> If you're doing 400 miles/week, the roads aren't so great and you
> don't like stuff breaking, those 36 spoke wheels are mighty nice. So
> is the thick rubber. Plus, his racing bike and training bike are
> almost surely not the same bike.

oz-wee-pay,

You make me feel like a pro. They are stealing all my intellectual
property by imitating me.

> The Masters Fattie wheels are very good for guys who "race" their
> Fellow Fat Buddies on Sunday. Good for the ego, good for the soul.

You sound like an expert.

 

[William Asher]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

<snip>
>
> I was the first in my family to walk upright.
>

That's because you were the first to throw off the shackles of government
oppression and breathe the sweet air of true freedom and elightenment.
Genetics can only go so far.

--
Bill Asher

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 8, 8:53 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:10:55 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
> >seem to slow him down much.
>
> Well, Ballan has won a monumental classic with that position,
> something Lance wasnt' able to do. And both rode classics about the
> same amount of time. All else being equal, aero is better in racing.

dumbass,

he'll be awesome when he gets a bike that fits.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
William Asher <[email protected]> wrote:

> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > I was the first in my family to walk upright.
> >
>
> That's because you were the first to throw off the shackles of government
> oppression and breathe the sweet air of true freedom and elightenment.
> Genetics can only go so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7EZQ4BVyw

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
William Asher <[email protected]> wrote:

> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > I was the first in my family to walk upright.
> >
>
> That's because you were the first to throw off the shackles of government
> oppression and breathe the sweet air of true freedom and elightenment.

Marlene DuChard: And it is a thousand candles that will
burn for every brave soldier that marches to the steps
of the drums of liberty, so that tyranny will never
trample the spirit of freedom in the hearts of men,
throughout a world thrown into darkness and despair.

Colonel Schlissel: Well spoken--whatever it means. Ah,
may I present Miss DeBoop, like yourself a well-built
exile?

Betty DeBoop: Hi, honey. Don't let the Heinie get you down.

Marlene DuChard: It is despots and tyrants who run our
rivers red with the colors of a hundred trampled flags
that unfurl in the winds of liberty, blowing over
centuries of deprivation...

Paul DuChard: It's all right, darling, we made our point.

Marlene DuChard: ...where men who have known treachery
and treason can still light torches in the caves of
honor...

--
Michael Press

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Apr 12, 6:16 pm, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> William Asher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > I was the first in my family to walk upright.
>
> > That's because you were the first to throw off the shackles of government
> > oppression and breathe the sweet air of true freedom and elightenment.
> > Genetics can only go so far.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7EZQ4BVyw


http://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/totalitarianism_today/2007/03/make_mine_freed.html


get a lift:
http://www.trampe.no/english/photogallery.php

 

[William Asher]

Howard Kveck wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> William Asher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> >
>> > I was the first in my family to walk upright.
>> >
>>
>> That's because you were the first to throw off the shackles of
>> government oppression and breathe the sweet air of true freedom and
>> elightenment. Genetics can only go so far.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7EZQ4BVyw
>

This thread has gotten silly.

--
Bill Asher

 

[Antti Salonen]

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> When you're racing and the pack really picks up speed you'll find yourself
> trying to get into your most efficient position. This PROBABLY won't be the
> lowest and flatest back position.

If you're smart, you'll find yourself trying to get into your FASTEST
position. That's always somewhere between the lowest and the most
efficient position. It's a compromise.

Antti