Can you maybe get the bars a little lower?

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.
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Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.

Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

Ballan rides that position to very good effect. I sure couldn't come
close to that.
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On 4/8/07 1:56 AM, in article [email hidden],

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.

That is how racers really set up their bike.......

Not this masters [censored] with stems pointing up in the air and bar setups where
it is not comfortable to get in the drops

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.
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Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

Those were your words to him at the end of today's race?
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

On Apr 8, 3:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.

I predict a surge in popularity for this setup.

Happy Easter.

--D-y

ST said:

On 4/8/07 1:56 AM, in article [email hidden],

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Dang.

That is how racers really set up their bike.......

Not this masters [censored] with stems pointing up in the air and bar setups where
it is not comfortable to get in the drops

Steve. Nice of you to mock the masters. How slow are you?
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On Apr 8, 9:27 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 8 Apr 2007 06:16:14 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"

Quoted message said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dang.

Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

Ballan rides that position to very good effect. I sure couldn't come
close to that.

Ahem, I think that comment says something.

On Apr 8, 7:27 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 8 Apr 2007 06:16:14 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"

Quoted message said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dang.

Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

Ballan rides that position to very good effect. I sure couldn't come
close to that.
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And I'm sure he would ride as well with the difference between the
hbars and saddle 1/2 of what it is..NOT really my point. You see so
many Euro racers with long, long stems, =big differences between hbars
and saddle and then the bars rotated back, with levers way up in the
air, so they can reach them.

Team mate of Merckx once said, "eddy can win on my bike, I can't win
on his'...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

And I'm sure he would ride as well with the difference between the
hbars and saddle 1/2 of what it is..NOT really my point. You see so
many Euro racers with long, long stems, =big differences between hbars
and saddle and then the bars rotated back, with levers way up in the
air, so they can reach them.

I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
position effectively.

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And I'm sure he would ride as well with the difference between the
hbars and saddle 1/2 of what it is..NOT really my point. You see so
many Euro racers with long, long stems, =big differences between hbars
and saddle and then the bars rotated back, with levers way up in the
air, so they can reach them.

I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
position effectively.

Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
used a lot more drop then.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
position effectively.

Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
used a lot more drop then.

This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?

Seriously, late-period LANCE had to ride fast in TTs
(different position) and uphill (low position less
important). Also, Ballan is about 6'3". Tall people
often have a larger bar to saddle drop, even tall
masters fatties.

Unlike Ballan and LANCE, the rest of us amateurs and MFs
aren't young, flexible, or spending the post-race part
of the day getting massages and stretching, so while their
bar positions may be enviable, they can't be directly
compared to a good fit for the average amateur or fat
master.

Ben

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
seem to slow him down much.

Well, Ballan has won a monumental classic with that position,
something Lance wasnt' able to do. And both rode classics about the
same amount of time. All else being equal, aero is better in racing.
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email hidden said:

This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?

For a few years.

But your point is right -- Lance was most competitive in the hillier
classics -- Fleche Wallone (won it), Liege-Bastogne-Liege (two top
fives I think) and Amstel Gold (which is only a little hiller than
Flanders).

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
seem to slow him down much.

Well, Ballan has won a monumental classic with that position,
something Lance wasnt' able to do. And both rode classics about the
same amount of time. All else being equal, aero is better in racing.
--
JT

Based on my long-past years as a race official, a few observations may
still have some credence today.

Huge advances have been made in equipment since I last stood on a start line
as chief ref. My son, at age 40, still races and some of his equipment is
absolutely amazing. He just sold his Pinarello magnesium frame to ride his
team issue frame. His Campy Bora wheels survived a crash in Indio last
weekend that would have "potato chipped" any wheels from the past!
Incredible advances in both material and aerodynamics of equipment.

But...

No advances in the design of the human body. Ballan's bike looks "normal"
to me for a guy who is around 6'4", if I'm translating his height in meters
to feet and inhces accurately. Compound that by the fact that all 6'4"
human frames are not created equal. Some guys have very very long legs.
Others have more traditional trunk-to-leg height distribution. But in ALL
cases, with guys that tall, if they're going to be competitive at the most
elite levels, they have to do everything in their power to push their bodies
into the most aerodynamic race position possible. For them, it's their
"norm." They don't even think about it. It's just something they've had to
do since they started racing. The ONLY time it's a problem is in a team
time trial if the other riders are much shorter. Makes drafting off them
easy for the short guy, but nearly impossible for them when they're behind a
very short guy. But it's better than no draft at all...

Caroline

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

And I'm sure he would ride as well with the difference between the
hbars and saddle 1/2 of what it is..NOT really my point. You see so
many Euro racers with long, long stems, =big differences between hbars
and saddle and then the bars rotated back, with levers way up in the
air, so they can reach them.

I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
position effectively.

Dr. Stuart McGill, author of

http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm

uses the term "self-selecting" to describe those in professional cycling
who can ride in this kind of position. He's got photo's of Greg LeMond
on his bike that I believe are from that famous TdF's final time trial
as an example, and certainly many riders since manage to get even more
bent over than that.

Me, I do fine riding in that kind of position. It's getting up from the
sofa the next day that's the killer. 🙂

The book linked to above is, in the opinion of this owner of a bad back,
about the best thing out there when it comes to talking about what makes
and keeps a back healthy for athletics in general, but he's no fan of
cycling in this sort of riding position, that's for sure.

-S-

Quoted message said:

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On Apr 8, 6:16 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Quoted message said:

Dang.

Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

While we were pissing and moaning about the bar height,
Dan Connelly pointed out on r.b.tech that Ballan's bike
has good old 36 spoke wheels for the Ronde. Do you like
him better now, Peter?

Ben

On Apr 9, 2:24 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I think he would be worse with the bars higher. I've seen pictures of
the guy riding on the drops and he is very aerodynamic. At 25mph+,
that's an advantage. But not everyone is flexible to use that kind of
position effectively.

Quoted message said:

Or needs to. Lance certainly didn't ride with an aggressive drop. Didn't
seem to slow him down much. What might be interesting is to check his "old"
position, back in the day (when he was more of a sprinter), and see if he
used a lot more drop then.

This LANCE you speak of - was he a classics rider?

Seriously, late-period LANCE had to ride fast in TTs
(different position) and uphill (low position less
important). Also, Ballan is about 6'3". Tall people
often have a larger bar to saddle drop, even tall
masters fatties.

And skinny flat chested (broad?) tall guys who are flexible can have
huge differences in saddle to bar height. Thigh to chest/abdomen
contact is big factor in limiting the amount of drop possible. His
skinny legs and not very accute knee angle (due to leg length and
crank length) make this possible. Look at a guy like Johan Van
Summeren compared to somebody like Salvatore Commesso and you can see
this in the extreme.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Unlike Ballan and LANCE, the rest of us amateurs and MFs
aren't young, flexible, or spending the post-race part
of the day getting massages and stretching, so while their
bar positions may be enviable, they can't be directly
compared to a good fit for the average amateur or fat
master.

Ben

email hidden said:

On Apr 8, 6:16 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Apr 8, 2:56 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

Quoted message said:

Dang.

Watching some of these Euros-'bike fit' and 'Euro racer' seem to be a
contradiction.

While we were pissing and moaning about the bar height,
Dan Connelly pointed out on r.b.tech that Ballan's bike
has good old 36 spoke wheels for the Ronde.

Read the article -- he used 36-spoke wheels for training. In racing,
it's faster material.
--
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On Apr 9, 3:07 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 9 Apr 2007 11:33:29 -0700, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ballan_wilier07

contradiction.

Quoted message said:

While we were pissing and moaning about the bar height,
Dan Connelly pointed out on r.b.tech that Ballan's bike
has good old 36 spoke wheels for the Ronde.

Read the article -- he used 36-spoke wheels for training. In racing,
it's faster material.

You expect me to read??!! I was just looking at
the pretty pictures. Then I got distracted by
something shiny.

Still, he trains on wheels that the average US
masters fattie (or even a strictly recreational
rider) might now be ashamed to show up with
on a Sunday ride.

Ben