Wayne Pein <
[email protected]> writes:
> Bill Z. wrote:
> > Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >>Bill Z. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The anti-bike lane hysteria of many is just plain silly. All the
> >>>things are is a special purpose lane. Drivers should be expected
> >>>to understand what these are, and they are fundamentally no different
> >>>that HOV lanes or bus lanes - lanes restricted to specific types
> >>>of vehicles.
> >>
> >>Huh? A 4' lane is not different than a HOV or bus lane? Last time I
> >>checked, these lanes were at least 12'.
> > Huh? You think the lane width has *anything* to with one's
> > understanding of right-of-way rules?
>
> There are *operational* differences between a 4' lane and a 12' lane.
Given that a motor vehicle going straight is not allowed in a bike
lane, and must merge into the bike lane before turning across it,
starting the merge when no further than 200 feet from the turning
point, and given that a vehicle changing lanes must not change
lanes until reasonably safe, exacty what "operational" difference
do you think might be of any consequence?
> >>And you've already noted that bike lanes are like shoulders. Well,
> >>shoulders are not intended for vehicular use. They are for providing
> >>buffer from roadside elements and a vehicle recovery area.
> > Well, that's a distortion of what I said too. I pointed out that
> > the cost of a bike lane stripe is about the same as a shoulder
> > stripe. The bike lanes are treated differently than shoulders
> > at key locations - intersections and places where the lanes
> > terminate. A bike lane strip will be dropped (end when the lane
> > ends), whereas a shoulder strip usually curves and runs to the
> > curb. If you were guiding on a stripe in bad conditions (rain,
> > at night), which would you prefer?
>
> The striping differences between bike lanes and shoulders are
> inconsequential. They are fundamentally alike.
Not true at all - shoulders can have a surface that is not
really suitable for travel, although OK for parking, and may
vary in width arbitrarily, even disappearing without any
warning.
> >>To justify your claim you would have to show why
> >>
> >>>a bus lane doesn't make drivers suddently incapable of noticing
> >>>buses.
> >>
> >>No he doesn't. A bike lane makes bicyclists less noticable to
> >>motorists because it creates an additional lane of traffic that
> >>bicyclists can be obscured by from turning motorists.
> > Shear nonesense - when riding at less than the normal speed of
> > traffic, a bicyclist would be in about the same position on the
> > roadway regardless, and the stripe itself is not a sight-line
> > obstruction.
>
> Totally untrue. Imagine a 10' lane. Now imagine that 10' lane with a
> bike lane next to it. With the bike lane, there would be guaranteed
> motor vehicle obstructions adjacent to the bicyclist.
Wrong. If the road contained only a 10' lane, there would be no room
for a bike lane, so the real comparison is more like an 18 foot lane
versus a 12 foot traffic lane + a 6 foot bike lane. If you ride 2
feet within such a bike lane, you would be in the exact same position
from a lane stripe that John Forester recommended in _Effective
Cycling_ for wide traffic lanes - he mentions a typical distance of
about 14 feet from the lane stripe when riding in a wide lane at less
than the speed of traffic.
> >>>This is another bogus argument - most cyclists tend to stay way too
> >>>close to the curb.
> >>
> >>Who cares about most cyclists who are ingorant of proper bicycling?
> >>Get education!
> > Oh, so you don't care about "most cylclists who are ingorant [sic] of
> > proper bicycling" and would favor natural selection to get rid of them?
> > Some of these cyclists who are "ignorant" are children who are too
> > young
> > to drive a motor vehicle. What do you propose to do with them? Do you
> > really have a problem with a bike lane along a two lane street with a
> > 25 mph speed limit and relatively little traffic, going past an
> > elementary school?
>
> Yes. What is the point of a bike lane on a low volume low speed street?
Keeping the parents of school kids happy for one.
> > Do you have a problem with a bike lane being installed instead of a
> > shoulder stripe on a 6 lane road, with the bike lane going to the
> > left of right turn lanes? The alternative is a shoulder stripe
> > with less lane area in the lane that bicyclist going straight would
> > use.
>
> Yes. The alternative is a wide outside lane or a narrow outside lane.
ROTFLMAO! You are not getting an extra wide outside lane. You are
going to get a bike lane or a shoulder, with the strip in basically
the smae position. It's very easy to design - you run an expert
cyclist along the road in heavy traffic but traffic moving faster than
the expert, track where he rides, and put the lane stripe 2 feet to
his left, but being sure to give the vehicles a normal width lane. Do
that and the bike lane stripe will be about 12 feet from the outermost
lane stripe, and the expert cyclist will be riding just where he would
be riding without the bike lane.
>
> > If you simply don't like the things just say you don't like them. It
> > is pointless to come up with silly arguments to justify your
> > preferences.
>
> Your arguments are silly.
To be blunt, Your arguments are idiotic. You are obviously ignoring
reality due to some thing you have about bike lanes.
--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
