Can Teflon make you sick?

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get crisp when a Teflon pan went
past the initial danger point of 500 degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded
under normal cooking conditions at home.

My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only one piece of bacon? The
more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is to overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan
anyway. Or baked in the oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show a
potential problem as this is ratings month.

Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.

Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it never happens. Ed
[email hidden] pages.cthome.netedhomeOpen ↗

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

KATU 2 News - Portland, Oregon www.katu.com

Can Teflon make you sick?

November 14, 2003 - Teflon, one of the most popular non-stick pan products, can emit fumes that
make you sick if it is allowed to get hot enough. According to ABCNews, the makers of Teflon have
known about the problems for years.

To learn about the health problem, ABCNews went to the kitchen with members of the Environmental
Working Group.

They say that when a Teflon coated pan reaches 554-degrees, ultra-fine particles start coming off
the pan. The particles can imbed in the lungs and lead to "Teflon Flu."

The illness causes flu-like symptoms, including headache, backache, and a temperature between 100
and 104 degrees.

The hotter a Teflon pan gets, the more chemicals are released and at 680 degrees, six toxic gases
can begin to come off of heated Teflon.

The Teflon flu is something DuPont has known about for years and with normal cooking, pans don't
get hot enough to present a problem.

In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get crisp when a Teflon pan went
past the initial danger point of 500 degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded
under normal cooking conditions at home.

The federal government is now conducting an urgent review of the chemical involved in making
Teflon for possible long-term harm.

==========================================================

As far as I know, nobody has ever gotten sick from teflon "fumes." I think you can go to the media
and find examples of studies that show that eating, breathing or drinking anything is unhealthy.
Life's too short.

Fred Knife Outlet knifeoutlet.comknifeoutlet.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, "Edwin Pawlowski"

Quoted message said:

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get crisp when a Teflon pan
went past the initial danger point of 500 degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never
exceeded under normal cooking conditions at home.

My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry only one piece of bacon? The
more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is to overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan
anyway. Or baked in the oven. They should have turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show
a potential problem as this is ratings month.

Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.

Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it never happens. Ed
[email hidden] pages.cthome.netedhomeOpen ↗

The phenomenom is known in the lab and plant as "TFE flu" pronounced as 'teefee flu'. It can also
happen when a dry lubricant (Vydax©, TFE Teflon© sprays, etc.) come in contact with a hot surface,
or even a lit cigarette (common when non-flammable propellants were used.) Also, on the older
Teflon© pans, the solvent for TFE(tetra-flouro-ethylene) coating is methyl methacrylate, or acrylic
plastic (Plexiglass©, a Rohm and Haas product name). The pan was sprayed with a solvent based
mixture of MM and TFE, the solvent flashed off, and into the paint oven - a convection oven with 1/2
degree control. The MM would melt, the resulting liquid would dissolve the TFE, and the stuff would
coat the pan. Methyl Methacrylate is pretty nasty stuff, causing a migraine type headache if the
fumes were inhaled.

Normally, if the pan is used with a cooking oil, no problem is incurred if the oil is kept below
the smoke point, since the temperature of TFE breakdown (sublimation) is above that point. With
water type cooking, there is usually no problem at all.

Dave Lawson

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In a test done by ABCNews, [11-15-2003] a piece of bacon was [fried in] a Teflon pan went past
the initial danger point of 500° the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
cooking conditions at home.

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds and are supposed to give
you flu like symptoms for 2 days & were supposedly to be the cause for birth defects in 2 children
of Dupont workers over the past 20 or so years.... ....a great deja vue and encore of/to the
Brockobitch Chromate, the PCE groundwater scare, the Rockedyne ClO4, etc..... ....all classical
hypes to make money. Get in on the act!

Quoted message said:

My guess is.... they just wanted to show a potential problem as this is ratings month. Ed

Hey, you got it, Ed! You can misuse any consumer or natural product and cause harm to yourself and
others. The green [censored] have recognized that trick 30 years ago and a some made fortunes for
themselves. **Environmentalism is the vilest money game that ever existed** This Teflon scare is the
latest one in this sad chapter of modern living.

hanson

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In a test done by ABCNews, a piece of bacon was just beginning to get crisp when a Teflon pan
went past the initial danger point of 500 degrees -- the temperature Dupont says is never
exceeded under normal cooking conditions at home.

My guess is the methodology is wrong. First off, how often do you fry

only

Quoted message said:

one piece of bacon? The more coverage of the pan, the less likely it is

to

Quoted message said:

overheat. Bacon is best done in a cast iron pan anyway. Or baked in the oven. They should have
turned the heat down, but they just wanted to show

a

Quoted message said:

potential problem as this is ratings month.

Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.

Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it never happens. Ed

Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?

I know I have- incl teflon ones.

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In a test done by ABCNews, [11-15-2003] a piece of bacon was [fried in] a Teflon pan went past
the initial danger point of 500° the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under normal
cooking conditions at home.

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read first-hand
accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds after cooking
with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Also, lung lesions in birds due to long term, low-level PTFE exposure is an established fact. Teflon
is by no means the only source of PTFE exposure, which range from ironing board covers to coffee
maker boiler plates to room heaters.

Rick

"Marke DB Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Teflon pans **properly used**, will not reach the 500 degree mark.

Yes, I can make a pan reach danger levels, but in my ordinary cooking, it never happens. Ed

Really? you've never stuck a 'stove top' pan in the oven?

I know I have- incl teflon ones.

Sheesh, unless you are broiling, your oven temperature is almost always well below 500F.

For me the only exception is when I am baking pizza. Then I crank the tempreature up to 500 and let
the stone heat for an hour or so. What other recipes call for oven temperatures of 500F or higher?

Debbie

--
Anti-spam advisory: The email address used to post this article is a throw- away address. It will be
invalidated and replaced with another if and when it is found by spammers.

In article said:

....a great deja vue and encore of/to the Brockobitch Chromate, the PCE groundwater scare, the
Rockedyne ClO4, etc..... ....all classical hypes to make money. Get in on the act!

[ *snip* ]

Quoted message said:

You can misuse any consumer or natural product and cause harm to yourself and others. The green
[censored] have recognized that trick 30 years ago and a some made fortunes for themselves.
**Environmentalism is the vilest money game that ever existed** This Teflon scare is the latest
one in this sad chapter of modern living.

Quoted message said:

hanson

Oh yeah, you come across as being *entirely* credible...

("Brockobitch?" Hoo boy.)

-- William December Starr <[email hidden]

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> In a test done by ABCNews, [11-15-2003] a piece of bacon was [fried in] a Teflon pan went
> past the initial danger point of 500° the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under
> normal cooking conditions at home.

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Also, lung lesions in birds due to long term, low-level PTFE exposure is an established fact.
Teflon is by no means the only source of PTFE exposure, which range from ironing board covers to
coffee maker boiler plates to room heaters. Rick

Aah...Rick, an "almost-victim" is reporting.....ahahahaha... Rick, a doomsday afficionado who has
"read first-hand accounts". Rick, who has sees in his mind "a houseful of dead birds".... "after
cooking **with** Teflon" .....ahahahahah......ahahahaha Ricky baby, if you keep on crying like that
you will get lung lesions from your own self-induced anxieties. You have fallen victim to a
classical green/enviro jerk off, Ricky. hanson

Rick said:

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

Quoted message said:

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Because some claim it doesn't make it any less [censored].

Repeat after me: "This is usenet. Most of the stuff I read here is unsubstatntiated opinion and is
usually wrong."

In article T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03 said:

Rick said:

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

Quoted message said:

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Because some claim it doesn't make it any less [censored].

Repeat after me: "This is usenet. Most of the stuff I read here is unsubstatntiated opinion and is
usually wrong."

Ahh, it's probably the truth. Everything is bad for you. It's only a matter of time before they
figure out why organically grown fresh fruits and veggies are bad for you.

--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the truth... But let us beware of
publishing our dreams before they have been put to the proof by the waking understanding." --
Friedrich August Kekulé

"William December Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

....a great deja vue and encore of/to the Brockobitch Chromate, the PCE groundwater scare, the
Rockedyne ClO4, etc..... ....all classical hypes to make money. Get in on the act!

[ *snip* ]

Quoted message said:

You can misuse any consumer or natural product and cause harm to yourself and others. The green
[censored] have recognized that trick 30 years ago and a some made fortunes for themselves.
**Environmentalism is the vilest money game that ever existed** This Teflon scare is the latest
one in this sad chapter of modern living.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hanson

Oh yeah, you come across as being *entirely* credible... ("Brockobitch?" Hoo boy.) -- William
December Starr <[email hidden]>

Listen, December.........ahahahahaha......December.... December.....in-credible! ......but hey,
that's what they labeled you and you got stuck with & have to live with, BUT you do not have to live
with this, or do you?:

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green [censored] are
=== whining... ===

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > In a test done by ABCNews, [11-15-2003] a piece of bacon was [fried in] a Teflon pan went
> > past the initial danger point of 500° the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded under
> > normal cooking conditions at home.

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Also, lung lesions in birds due to long term, low-level PTFE exposure is an established fact.
Teflon is by no means the only source of PTFE exposure, which range from ironing board covers to
coffee maker boiler plates to room heaters. Rick

Aah...Rick, an "almost-victim" is reporting.....ahahahaha... Rick, a doomsday afficionado who has
"read first-hand accounts". Rick, who has sees in his mind "a houseful of dead birds".... "after
cooking **with** Teflon" .....ahahahahah......ahahahaha Ricky baby, if you keep on crying like
that you will get lung lesions from your own self-induced anxieties. You have fallen victim to a
classical green/enviro jerk off, Ricky. hanson

Do a little research before you continue making a moron out of yourself.

Rick

"Bill Vajk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

Rick said:

Quoted message said:

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

Quoted message said:

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Because some claim it doesn't make it any less [censored].

And because some claim medical science is [censored] doesn't make it any more [censored].

Quoted message said:

Repeat after me: "This is usenet. Most of the stuff I read here is unsubstatntiated opinion and is
usually wrong."

There are formal studies on this issue, e.g.
uoguelph.caCompanion%20Animals.htmOpen ↗

The site lists five clinical studies as references.

Rick

(Gregory L. Hansen) said:

Ahh, it's probably the truth. Everything is bad for you. It's only a matter of time before they
figure out why organically grown fresh fruits and veggies are bad for you.

Probably true. Organically grown plants have to manufacture their own toxins in order to repel
pests. Who is testing these?

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs www3.sympatico.caborismOpen ↗ Aurora, Ontario

"Gregory L. Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ahh, it's probably the truth. Everything is bad for you. It's only a matter of time before they
figure out why organically grown fresh fruits and veggies are bad for you.

Afflatoxins.

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uGttb.1871

Quoted message said:

"Rick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

"hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > "dalton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > In a test done by ABCNews, [11-15-2003] a piece of bacon was [fried in] a Teflon pan
> > > went past the initial danger point of 500° the temperature Dupont says is never exceeded
> > > under normal cooking conditions at home.
>
> .... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead
birds after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Also, lung lesions in birds due to long term, low-level PTFE exposure is an established fact.
Teflon is by no means the only source of PTFE exposure, which range from ironing board covers
to coffee maker boiler plates to room heaters. Rick

Aah...Rick, an "almost-victim" is reporting.....ahahahaha... Rick, a doomsday afficionado who
has "read first-hand accounts". Rick, who has sees in his mind "a houseful of dead birds"....
"after cooking **with** Teflon" .....ahahahahah......ahahahaha Ricky baby, if you keep on crying
like that you will get lung lesions from your own self-induced anxieties. You have fallen victim
to a classical green/enviro jerk off, Ricky. hanson

Do a little research before you continue making a moron out of yourself. Rick

Aahahahahah.......ahahahaha........Ricky baby got cranked. Ricky Pooh, what do you call then people
who see no issue in keeping "housefuls of birds"?.... never mind dead birds. It's cruel, green
turds like you that keep birds in houses and cages, instead of letting them be in their natural
habitat. I am not surprised about green [censored] like you, the followers and disciples of these role
models and icons:

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it up on the spot ... for the
mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant." -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's
Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But that's the way we sell messages in
this society. We use hype." -- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries
like ours is the disease, not the cure." -- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice
President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the
greenhouse effect." -- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment
for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be
considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian
brothels." -- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids
who shoot birds." -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, === without any redeeming value,
=== nor any intent to save anything. This ==- scam has come to an end. Now, all the green [censored] are
=== whining... ===

Rick said:

Quoted message said:

Rick wrote:

OK, here is your claim:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead birds
after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

You draw a correlation between the deaths of muultiple birds in the care of rec.pets.birds and
"after cooking with teflon."

Any normal person would undrstand from the wording of the statement that it has to do with ordinary
cooking practices.

Quoted message said:

There are formal studies on this issue, e.g.
uoguelph.caCompanion%20Animals.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

The site lists five clinical studies as references.

Did you actually read any of the information presented in the documents at the URL you've cited?

Try this which I have copied right out of your resource:

"Household cookware is the most common PTFE exposure for pet birds; problems arise when pans
boil dry or unfilled saucepans are heated."

Well that's an extraordinary incident, not normal cooking practice, right? But let's continue:

"Frying temperatures normally range between 100-200°C
(3). At 280°C, cooking oils and butter will flame and foods will smoke and burn (1)."

OK, that's extraordinary, not normal cooking practice, right?

"Above 280°C, a polymer undergoes chemical decomposition (pyrolysis) (2)."

Again, extraordinary, and bears no relation to the sort of scenario you were promoting.

"PTFE, as well as butter or corn oil, can produce pyrolysis products that can cause death in
birds (3)."

Well gee whiz, it seems like other things ordinarily used in cooking can also kill birds, right?

"When PTFE undergoes pyrolysis, both gaseous and particulate materials are given off, including
fluorinated compounds, that are toxic to animals and humans with birds being most susceptible
(1, 3, 4). In humans, exposure to fumes can lead to a transient, febrile, flu-like syndrome
called polymer-fume fever (1)."

But once again, these are not the consequence of normal cooking practices as your original statement
suggests happens whenever teflon is used in cooking.

You're crossposting to three sci.* newsgroups. If you want to have sloppy statements accepted
you would do well to stick to talk and misc heirarchies. Even if they're accepted doesn't make
them correct.

And of course all the above is on the basis that the URL you cited gives correct information. That,
as it turns out, is more likely than not.

see below

Rick said:

"Bill Vajk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:T9utb.204753$Tr4.600014@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

Rick said:

>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>.... and "break down" fumes from Teflon were supposed to have killed birds

Quoted message said:

"Supposed"?? I've been a participant in rec.pets.birds for over five years and have read
first-hand accounts from at least a dozen pet owners who wound up with a houseful of dead
birds after cooking with Teflon. And in most cases the pans were not overheated.

Because some claim it doesn't make it any less [censored].

And because some claim medical science is [censored] doesn't make it any more [censored].

Quoted message said:

Repeat after me: "This is usenet. Most of the stuff I read here is unsubstatntiated opinion and
is usually wrong."

There are formal studies on this issue, e.g.
uoguelph.caCompanion%20Animals.htmOpen ↗

The site lists five clinical studies as references.

Rick

TEflon as such wasa NEW and groundbreaking invention that for a while was used in Aircraft
wiring untill a fire broke out and caused poisoness as well as explosive gasses to become
evident. A NEWER and more stable SIMILA compound is NOW used with complete success. TEflon, per
se, needs to go the way of the dino-sour...No joke here. B-0b1