Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Can't tighten headset

Michael · 2003-10-30T16:47:11+00:00

When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What else can I try? Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not yet cut). Michael

Started by Michael · 30 October 2003 · Last activity 20 November 2003 · 26 posts · 3,204 views

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01 / Original postCan't tighten headsetMichael · 30 Oct 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #26Michael · 20 Nov 2003

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Original section: Cycling Equipment
Published: 30 October 2003
Last activity: 20 November 2003
Original author: Michael
Posts: 26
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 3,204
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Headset service Reach and stack

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Original post
Michael
Archived post

30 October 2003, 16:47 UTC #1

When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What
else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork
with carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube
not yet cut).
Michael

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Jayofmontreal
Archived post

30 October 2003, 16:47 UTC #2

How many spacers, what kind, how much exposed steerer above the headset.
If there's play in your headset I wouldn't ride the bike, you may start ovalizing the headtube, then
you're fu*ked.
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"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael
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Dan Daniel
Archived post

30 October 2003, 16:47 UTC #3

(Michael) said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What
else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael
One of the 'obvious' ones, but I'll throw it out- recently reinstalled a fork and headset and could
not get it adjusted. Loose no matter what I did. Turns out that I had reinstalled the front wheel
with too little pressure on the quick release. So I was feeling the slack I leave in the hub that is
taken up by the pressure of the quick release, not the headset adjustment being slack.
This was a threaded headset, if it matters.
Check other places that might cause the knock- front hub and brakes?

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Robin Hubert
Archived post

30 October 2003, 16:47 UTC #4

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
I suspect your top cap is bottoming out on the fork steer tube. Add another spacer.
Robin Hubert

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RBS
Archived post

30 October 2003, 17:02 UTC #5

Quoted post said:
Originally posted by Michael
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What
else can I try?

Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork
with carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube
not yet cut).

Michael
hi michael
just stating the obvious - you are loosening the stem bolts before trying to tighten the headset top cap bolt? also, check that the star fangled nut inside the steerer tube hasn't come loose and ridden all the way up to the top of the tube.

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Alex Rodriguez
Archived post

30 October 2003, 17:47 UTC #6

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What
else can I try? Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon
(disc) fork with carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem
(steerer tube not yet cut).
Could be the steerer is too long, or you don't have enough spacers, and you are bottoming the top
cap on the steerer before you remove all the play.
--------------
Alex

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Sorni
Archived post

30 October 2003, 18:47 UTC #7

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
No one mentioned it, so I will: you ARE loosening the stem bolts on the steerer before tightening
the top cap bolt, right?
Bill "learned that one years ago (and not in a good way)" S.

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Jeff Wills
Archived post

30 October 2003, 19:47 UTC #8

[email hidden] (Michael) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael
Is the headset new? Is the fork crown race seated tightly on the fork? Enough space between top of
fork and top of stem to properly preload the headset?
BTW: I assume you mean "Litespeed". :-)
Jeff
Jeff

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Zog The Undenia
Archived post

30 October 2003, 19:47 UTC #9

Michael said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
If all the other suggestions fail, and this is a new frame, get a good bike shop to check out the
head tube facing and re-cut the faces if necessary. If the cups are slightly out of parallel you'll
never get it right.

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Jobst Brandt
Archived post

30 October 2003, 20:47 UTC #10

Dan Daniel said:
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Quoted message said:
One of the 'obvious' ones, but I'll throw it out- recently reinstalled a fork and headset and
could not get it adjusted. Loose no matter what I did. Turns out that I had reinstalled the front
wheel with too little pressure on the quick release. So I was feeling the slack I leave in the hub
that is taken up by the pressure of the quick release, not the headset adjustment being slack.
You can't feel bearing clearance by the method used to assess head bearing clearance. However, the
more effective method will respond to wheel bearing clearance and that is to bounce the front end on
a well inflated tire. This will give a clear chatter sound if there is head bearing as well as wheel
bearing clearance.
Quoted message said:
This was a threaded headset, if it matters.
It matters.
Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

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Rod Jenkins
Archived post

30 October 2003, 21:28 UTC #11

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael

Is the bung far enough down the steerertube? You could have reached the un-threaded part of the bolt
(which is what I did when I first installed an ahead set).
Rod

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Zilla
Archived post

31 October 2003, 02:47 UTC #12

Shouldn't there be "some" play, not a lot, but some? Just asking
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"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael

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Dan Brussee
Archived post

31 October 2003, 03:47 UTC #13

As with any bearing adjustment, a well adjusted bearing will have zero perceptible play, but will
still turn freely. I would err on the side of a scunch too tight with no play.
With a test as inacurate as rocking the bike with the front brake applied, I would expect zero play
perceptible. The "drop test" where you raise the front wheel and drop it about 6 inches or so, there
should be no rattling sound from the headset bearings (If you havent heard that, it's usually quite
distinctive).
Zilla said:
Shouldn't there be "some" play, not a lot, but some? Just asking

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Dan Daniel
Archived post

31 October 2003, 06:47 UTC #14

Quoted message said:

You can't feel bearing clearance by the method used to assess head bearing clearance.
I am not understanding what you mean here. Maybe because you dropped the word 'wheel' before the
first bearing? Do you mean that when applying the front brake and rocking the bike, any bearing
clearance in the front hub will not be perceptible?
Quoted message said:
However, the more effective method will respond to wheel bearing clearance and that is to bounce
the front end on a well inflated tire. This will give a clear chatter sound if there is head
bearing as well as wheel bearing clearance.
Ok, I'll make my next headset adjustment with this method only and make it work.
Although if I am reading you correctly, seems that the 'drop' method has two potential sources for a
rattle and the rock method has only one. Oh well, I was dumb enough to have a misadjusted hub in the
first place and not catching it before moving on to the headset....
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
This was a threaded headset, if it matters.
It matters.
Beyond reasons others have mentioned in this thread- need a spacer, loose star nut, etc.? Can you
direct me to an explanation of the differences between a threaded and non-threaded headset when it
comes to adjustment? Thanks.

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Robin Hubert
Archived post

31 October 2003, 09:46 UTC #15

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

You can't feel bearing clearance by the method used to assess head bearing clearance.
I am not understanding what you mean here. Maybe because you dropped the word 'wheel' before the
first bearing? Do you mean that when applying the front brake and rocking the bike, any bearing
clearance in the front hub will not be perceptible?
Quoted message said:
However, the more effective method will respond to wheel bearing clearance and that is to bounce
the front end on a well inflated tire. This will give a clear chatter sound if there is head
bearing as well as wheel bearing clearance.
Ok, I'll make my next headset adjustment with this method only and make it work.
Although if I am reading you correctly, seems that the 'drop' method has two potential sources for
a rattle and the rock method has only one.
Not exactly true. Your front brake also flexes a bit and can give you a false reading if you're not
on it. I like JB's methond.
Quoted message said:
Oh well, I was dumb enough to have a misadjusted hub in the first
place and not catching it before moving on to the headset....
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
This was a threaded headset, if it matters.
It matters.
Beyond reasons others have mentioned in this thread- need a spacer, loose star nut, etc.? Can you
direct me to an explanation of the differences between a threaded and non-threaded headset when it
comes to adjustment? Thanks.
Only in the method of taking up the clearance.
Robin Hubert

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Pete Biggs
Archived post

31 October 2003, 12:47 UTC #16

Zilla said:
Shouldn't there be "some" play, not a lot, but some? Just asking
No, there should be a slight preload on the bearings, although sometimes you have to leave some play
in to avoid binding when persisting with a faulty headset or bike with non parallel head tube faces.
~PB

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Pete Biggs
Archived post

31 October 2003, 12:47 UTC #17

Robin Hubert said:
Quoted message said:
Although if I am reading you correctly, seems that the 'drop' method has two potential sources
for a rattle and the rock method has only one.
Not exactly true. Your front brake also flexes a bit and can give you a false reading if you're
not on it.
A *loose* front brake can feel like a loose headset but flex does not. Just make sure the brake
mounting bolt is tight first. I find the brake test is a finer method that the drop test - I can
detect smaller amounts of play with it. It's only unsuitable for bikes with suspension forks.
~PB

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Qui Si Parla Ca
Archived post

31 October 2003, 14:47 UTC #18

Michael-<< I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the threads) while
pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play. What else can I try?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
<BR><BR>
Is the top cap hitting the steerer in any way? Add some more spacers and see if you can adjust it.
Cups tight in the headtube? Fork crown race installed properly?
Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

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Qui Si Parla Ca
Archived post

31 October 2003, 14:47 UTC #19

zilla-<< Shouldn't there be "some" play, not a lot, but some? Just asking >><BR><BR>
No-should be smooth w/o any 'play'...
Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

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Jim Beam
Archived post

1 November 2003, 03:47 UTC #20

s2 headset has cartridge bearings. i had an lbs install one of these headsets a while back and they
told me that "play was normal".
reality was, they had one of the cartridges in upside down. if the previous posts' suggestions don't
fix the problem, check the bearing cartridges.
Michael said:
When I do the "headset tightness check" (hold front brake and rock bike forward and back) I feel
play in the headset. I've tightened the top cap down as much as I can (without stripping the
threads) while pushing all the bits down on the steerer tube, but I can't get rid of the play.
What else can I try?
Specs: Cane Creek S2 headset, Lightspeed Tuscany road frame, Lightspeed carbon (disc) fork with
carbon steerer, ITM threadless stem, bunch o' spacers below and above stem (steerer tube not
yet cut).
Michael

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